Tim Tebow to Pats

[BuffaloBob]

 

 

In 2001, Flutie's first season in San Diego (head coach Mike Riley's last season), the team had 4 more wins than they had previous year (5 vs 1) and their offense was much better than it was the previous year when Jim Harbaugh went 0-5 as the starter.

 

Their offense scored more points than their "16th ranked defense" gave up (332 to 321) and they beat the Bills in week 7 to go to 5-2 in a game that Ralph Wilson was quoted as saying that he'd rather win than the Super Bowl, due to all the Bills defections.

 

The Chargers season was crippled by injuries and ineptitude by coach Mike Riley as they lost their last 9 games including a week 17 loss to Seattle in which Flutie threw for 377 yards (his 3rd 300+ yard game that season) and led the team to a tie with 16 seconds left.

 

Typical of the season the Chargers kick coverage allowed a long return and Seattle kicked a long field goal at the end to win as time ran out.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree about Flutie. He wasn't pretty to watch and he wasn't always effective but even as a 38 year old quarterback on his last legs, he could still keep his team in every game and lead them back at the end.

 

It was his defense that kept HIS team in every game so that he could lead them back at the end. In his last year with the Bills, the offense point output was nothing short of anemic. Thanks to Bellicheat, everyone knew all you had to do was keep him in the pocket and he was ineffective because his throwing lanes were blocked.

 

Flutie was a great improvisational player, but once NFL defenses kept him in the pocket he was uunable to function effectively.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It was his defense that kept HIS team in every game so that he could lead them back at the end. In his last year with the Bills, the offense point output was nothing short of anemic. Thanks to Bellicheat, everyone knew all you had to do was keep him in the pocket and he was ineffective because his throwing lanes were blocked.

 

Flutie was a great improvisational player, but once NFL defenses kept him in the pocket he was uunable to function effectively.

 

Which brings me back to my first point:

 

Flutie went 10-3 in his last 13 starts with the Bills (6-2 in his last 8 starts of '99 and 4-1 in 5 starts in 2000.

 

So Flutie's winning percentage never wavered.

 

With that same great defense, Rob Johnson went 1-1 in '99 and 4-7 in 2000.

 

Why don't people want to give him credit for winning?

 

Flutie was 38 and 28 as a starter in the NFL. In 1988 he went 6-3 in New England and the Cheatriots*** went just 3-4 in the games he didn't play. Was that also because of the Bills defense?

 

Give the guy a little credit. He DESERVES it.

[Garranimal]

Which brings me back to my first point:

 

Flutie went 10-3 in his last 13 starts with the Bills (6-2 in his last 8 starts of '99 and 4-1 in 5 starts in 2000.

 

So Flutie's winning percentage never wavered.

 

With that same great defense, Rob Johnson went 1-1 in '99 and 4-7 in 2000.

 

Why don't people want to give him credit for winning?

 

Flutie was 38 and 28 as a starter in the NFL. In 1988 he went 6-3 in New England and the Cheatriots*** went just 3-4 in the games he didn't play. Was that also because of the Bills defense?

 

Give the guy a little credit. He DESERVES it.

Because the great defense thing is so much more plausible and eases the pain of the truth........which is that Flutie and Tebow were catalysts to improving the teams they played on.

 

But this is a world where people THINK one thing, but others KNOW other things ......and while both are absolutely opinions.....and equally valid, try explaining that to a message board poster.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Garranimal

[NoSaint]

 

 

Which brings me back to my first point:

 

Flutie went 10-3 in his last 13 starts with the Bills (6-2 in his last 8 starts of '99 and 4-1 in 5 starts in 2000.

 

So Flutie's winning percentage never wavered.

 

With that same great defense, Rob Johnson went 1-1 in '99 and 4-7 in 2000.

 

Why don't people want to give him credit for winning?

 

Flutie was 38 and 28 as a starter in the NFL. In 1988 he went 6-3 in New England and the Cheatriots*** went just 3-4 in the games he didn't play. Was that also because of the Bills defense?

 

Give the guy a little credit. He DESERVES it.

 

Posters get pretty black and white. Truth is flutie was very good, though limited. He deserves credit for his accomplishments and deserves questions about his long term feasibility at qb. For some reason those two things can't coexist in many posters heads.

[Cowgirl]

Why do you think the Media talks about Tebow all the time? Just look at this thread and you will know why. Tebow is that bad player that happened to get a chance in the NFL and was carried by his team to the playoffs then destroyed by an actually good team the Pats. So you get people that think he is good and people that know he isn't, they fight. Then you get those that hate Tebow and those that love him cult status, they fight. Then you end up with 16 pages of crap and in the end Tebow will still be a bad QB but a great guy.

 

Tebow was a 'bad player'??? Based on what???

 

Wiki- Tebow became the Gators' starting quarterback during the 2007 season when he became the first college sophomore to win the Heisman Trophy. In 2008, Tebow led Florida to a 13–1 record and its second national championship in three years, and was named the offensive MVP of the national championship game. The Gators again went 13–1 in 2009, his senior year. At the conclusion of his college career, he held the Southeastern Conference's all-time records in both career passing efficiency and total rushing touchdowns, appearing second and tenth (respectively) in the NCAA record book in these categories.

 

That sounds like a GREAT player. But what do I know?? Those are just FACTS..........

 

He had played 3 games in '10 when he took over for a 1-4 Bronco team. That would basically make him a 'rookie'. People who say Tebow sucks give the Broncos 'Team' credit for the Playoff run. That same 'TEAM', that same 'DEFENSE' that was 1-4 with Orton.

 

The Broncos got beaten by 'an actually good team the Pats'.. So what were the Steeler???

 

Tim Tebow...a 'bad' player....a Rookie.....got 316 yards against the Steelers D in the Playoffs. Pleassssssse...............

 

There are 16 pages, well 17 now, of this 'crap' because people will NEVER change their opinion about Tebow. So discussing it is futile. I know that...you ALL know that....but here we are. Sigh.............

 

I'm tryin' to walk away but you guys make me sooooooooooooo mad 'cause you're BLIND!!!!!!!! ....and WRONG!!!

 

Also, why do Tebow fans get called basically stupid idiots??? 'Cult' Tebow lovers. Please. I love the NFL. Tebow was fun to watch. He hasn't really gotten a chance to prove anything in the NFL. But he did have one of the best Rookie seasons a starter has ever had! He, along with his team, won a playoff game. Just sayin'..............not bad for a 'bad player'.

 

 

 

And another thing.....The Bills would have won 'The Music City Nightmare' game had they started Doug Flutie!!

 

Yeah...yeah....yeah..........The Bills were leading when pretty boy took a seat......blah......blah......blah.......BUT it was Flutie's to win or lose 'cause HE got them there! He was robbed!! (Hey...that's kinda a pun. Ha...Rob Johnson...'robbed') He won games! That's what he did! He was a winner, but he never got the chance! Pathetic.

 

 

Plus........it was a forward pass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lateral pass...............................Pleasssssssssssssssssse................

 

 

Peace.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Cowgirl

[Ralph W.]

I agree with you about people will NEVER change their opinion on Tebow. That's the reason the media loves him b.c of what he does to people.

Edited June 17, 2013 by EJ3

[Tcali]

very smart move---of course a team that is in the top 3 for decades makes lots of smart moves. tebow is a good football player. they will use him wisely.

[bbb]

This may have been said, but I just listened to one of Tony Kornheiser's podcasts fromt his week and he (and I) thought it was funny that Rex Ryan said - "They're going to replace Brady with Tebow. That's OK with me!"

[Tcali]

Posters get pretty black and white. Truth is flutie was very good, though limited. He deserves credit for his accomplishments and deserves questions about his long term feasibility at qb. For some reason those two things can't coexist in many posters heads.

part of the long term feasibility with Flutie was that he was almost 36 when he came in and rescued the Bills. Even Flutie got old. Yes he had some limitations---but he never got a true chance early in his career before going off to Canada to dominate that league in Jordanesque style.

[Cynical]

part of the long term feasibility with Flutie was that he was almost 36 when he came in and rescued the Bills. Even Flutie got old. Yes he had some limitations---but he never got a true chance early in his career before going off to Canada to dominate that league in Jordanesque style.

 

Or, more likely his limitations were never going to allow him to be a good player in the NFL, but his skill set matched the Canadian game extremely well which allowed him to dominate up there.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Or, more likely his limitations were never going to allow him to be a good player in the NFL, but his skill set matched the Canadian game extremely well which allowed him to dominate up there.

 

38-28 as an NFL starter with most of those starts coming after the age of 36.

 

He was a good NFL player.

 

He spent his prime in the CFL.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Tebow got destroyed by the Bills that season.

To add to that: It should tell you something that the Bills, led by George Edwards and Dave Wannstedt on defense, knew how to destroy Tebow.

 

Which brings me back to my first point:

 

Flutie went 10-3 in his last 13 starts with the Bills (6-2 in his last 8 starts of '99 and 4-1 in 5 starts in 2000.

 

So Flutie's winning percentage never wavered.

 

With that same great defense, Rob Johnson went 1-1 in '99 and 4-7 in 2000.

 

Why don't people want to give him credit for winning?

 

Flutie was 38 and 28 as a starter in the NFL. In 1988 he went 6-3 in New England and the Cheatriots*** went just 3-4 in the games he didn't play. Was that also because of the Bills defense?

 

Give the guy a little credit. He DESERVES it.

I think it's the difference between a little credit and demi-god status that makes people swing (irrationally) in the other direction.

 

Flutie definitely knew how to command an offense and to keep drives alive - where Johnson had the measurables but killed drives by not knowing when to quit or to improvise. It's sad that the relationship was so contentious, because if Johnson studied a little harder and learned from Flutie while he was watching him (and if Flutie had been a more willing mentor), it could have turned out far differently.

[CodeMonkey]

very smart move---of course a team that is in the top 3 for decades makes lots of smart moves. tebow is a good football player. they will use him wisely.

They probably already are ... insight into the Jests offense in general and Sanchize in particular.

I agree that is was a good move for them, as much as saying that makes me want to wash my mouth out with soap.

[eball]

They probably already are ... insight into the Jests offense in general and Sanchize in particular.

I agree that is was a good move for them, as much as saying that makes me want to wash my mouth out with soap.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just a really funny statement. As if anyone needs insight into that train wreck.

 

The only thing I've heard regarding the Pats* signing of Tebow that makes ANY sense to me is that he would be used in the practice setting to mimic a read-option offense so their defense can practice against it. That's it. He's not getting into games because removing Tom Brady for even one play is asinine.

[Ralph W.]

Anyone see when you say Tebow is a bad QB people bring up his college career "has nothing to do with NFL lol" and one pass in a playoff game. It reminds me of when Fitz did well for a few games and he got a huge contract.

[eball]

Anyone see when you say Tebow is a bad QB people bring up his college career "has nothing to do with NFL lol" and one pass in a playoff game. It reminds me of when Fitz did well for a few games and he got a huge contract.

 

"For a few games" was actually close to 20 games, and the contract was not "huge" -- it's remarkable people keeping saying that as if it's a fact. Fitz's contract paid him mid-level starter's money -- and the biggest problem with the deal is that they needed him to play at the same level for another year. The Bills' biggest mistake was not in giving Fitz that contract, but in failing (until now) to address his replacement.

[Ralph W.]

 

 

"For a few games" was actually close to 20 games, and the contract was not "huge" -- it's remarkable people keeping saying that as if it's a fact. Fitz's contract paid him mid-level starter's money -- and the biggest problem with the deal is that they needed him to play at the same level for another year. The Bills' biggest mistake was not in giving Fitz that contract, but in failing (until now) to address his replacement.

20 games of garbage? More like a 5-2 run and OBD going OMG we got our next guy let's sign him up before he gets expensive. It was a HUGE contract not b.c it was actually big but b.c Fitz should have never been paid.

[Cynical]

38-28 as an NFL starter with most of those starts coming after the age of 36.

 

He was a good NFL player.

 

He spent his prime in the CFL.

 

Why is it every time when somebody defends DF you can count on 2 things: DF's won-loss record and a comparison to RJ.

The comparison to RJ is irrelevant, meaningless, and proves nothing. Ok, DF was better than a crappy QB. That does automatically propel DF into "Good" or "Great" status.

 

W-L is a team stat.

You mentioned he took 1-15 Charger team to 5-11. Interesting. The following year, after Flutie was benched, the team went 8-8.

Did DF improve 1-15 team or did hamper a 8-8 team?

The reality is both. Yes, he helped the team improve from 1-15, but he also was part of the problem they did not win more than 5 games.

 

Go back and look at the rest of DF stats: his completion ratio, TD/ turnover ratio, etc.

You also mentioned DF stats in a Seattle game (377 yards).

 

How about some of his other stats during that 9 game losing streak. Funny you don't mention the 3 INT performance against the Raiders.

Must have been that crappy coaching right?

 

The first pick DF blamed on a "lazy" DT (Russell Maryland, IIRC). Instead of rushing DF, the DT slid over into the hole Flutie was trying to throw a pass through. He hit Maryland in the chest with the ball.

Now, where have I seen that before. Oh yes, when DF was a QB of the Bills. There were numerous discussions regarding how defenses were playing contain and plugging up Fluties passing lanes. That sounds exactly like what the Raiders were doing.

 

The second pick he blamed on the stadium grass. The WR slipped. What DF failed to mention is the WR slipped trying to stop and reach BEHIND him for poorly thrown ball.

 

The third pick, DF blamed the timing of the play. If the WR had only made a cut a second earlier, he would have thrown the ball earlier.

Again, DF failed to mention he was throwing into triple coverage. The WR had 2 DB in front of him, and 1 in back. Even if he had thrown the ball a second earlier, the probability of it being picked were still high as the other front DB would have been in position to make the pick.

 

He was a mediocre QB in the NFL.

[bbb]

To add to that: It should tell you something that the Bills, led by George Edwards and Dave Wannstedt on defense, knew how to destroy Tebow.

 

 

I think it's the difference between a little credit and demi-god status that makes people swing (irrationally) in the other direction.

 

Flutie definitely knew how to command an offense and to keep drives alive - where Johnson had the measurables but killed drives by not knowing when to quit or to improvise. It's sad that the relationship was so contentious, because if Johnson studied a little harder and learned from Flutie while he was watching him (and if Flutie had been a more willing mentor), it could have turned out far differently.

 

 

Flutie definitely had "it" and I don't think that can be taught.

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

 

Flutie definitely had "it" and I don't think that can be taught.

Witness the many Super Bowl titles to prove this. He had more than most Bills QBs since Kelly, but he is a rare case in Buffalo where we overrate our own, IMO. Anyway, isn't this about Tebow? Who also has "it," but can't throw a football to the right person more than 50% of the time? Let's get back to that.