Dorkington Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I wish we could have kept both Levitre and Byrd, was expecting we'd keep one, now it looks like we'll keep neither. D'oh. Hopefully we don't run into this issue with CJ, when his contract is up. We really need to do better at keeping our talented players.
Coach Tuesday Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Ok, let's discuss. A rookie knows his 2nd contract is likely the one that sets him up for life. So does his agent. Unless the player has NOT lived up to his potential before his "walk year," what incentive does said player have to negotiate an extension prematurely? It is a two-way street, you know, and if you believe other teams handle it differently I'd like to see the list of players over the past 4-5 years who were already perceived as superstars and were extended prior to their "walk year." Now, if you're dealing with a player who has been "ok" or has not lived up to expectations, but for whom the team still sees potential, an extension is much easier to work out. But, as usual, you've staked out a position which sets you up to criticize the Bills regardless of the outcome. If they "cave" at the last minute and pay Byrd what he's asking, you'll say they should have started the conversation sooner. And if no deal is reached, you'll say they're not making a commitment to keep their own stars. Well played. But that's just not true. Players - including star players - sign long-term contracts before they hit their first free agency all of the time. Adrian Peterson could've waited to hit the market for the first time, but instead, he re-upped with the Vikings before his contract year. It happens all of the time. Most good organizations do not wait until the star players they have drafted hit their first free agency - instead, they routinely try to lock them up before then, and often are successful. I'd love to give you a "list" but right now, I just don't have the time. Perhaps later I will get to it. I'm not saying (as you keep insisting) that the Bills didn't try to lock up Byrd and Levitre before this offseason, maybe they did. If so, it's the right approach, but it would be nice to hear that they had tried to be proactive. If not, I've got an issue with how things are run. Edited July 15, 2013 by Coach Tuesday
D521646 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Personally, I haven't chimed in on this whole escapade since the beginning, but I will now. To me, it comes down to pure dollars vs. performance. The questions the Bills FO should and probably did asses are, is Byrd so good that replacing him with a rookie or Williams/Searcy will cost this team a playoff spot or a win or two here and there? My guess is the answer to that question is probably not. Two, I was watching the 2010 Hard Knocks on the Jets this past weekend, and they had a lot of Pettine on therem and from what I can glean, he is a no nonsense type of coach, and to me has a great eye for talent. There were several times where he said that this player or that player had no chance of making the team, so my guess is that the FO, Marrone, and Co, are leaning heavily on Pettine's assessment of the guys in OTA's. Further, it makes sense that at this point with what appears to be zero movement on the Byrd front that Pettine has stated that he can work with what he's got. And if you want to add a third question, I would say that Whaley needs to send a message to guys like Parker that he is not to be messed with. Parker thinks Byrd is the best safety in the league, no one else other than Byrd and Parker think that he is, so Whaley MUST stand his ground here, and play hard ball. I'm personally ok with that.
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 But that's just not true. Players - including star players - sign long-term contracts before they hit their first free agency all of the time. Adrian Peterson could've waited to hit the market for the first time, but instead, he re-upped with the Vikings before his contract year. It happens all of the time. Most good organizations do not wait until the star players they have drafted hit their first free agency - instead, they routinely try to lock them up before then, and often are successful. I'd love to give you a "list" but right now, I just don't have the time. Perhaps later I will get to it. I'm not saying (as you keep insisting) that the Bills didn't try to lock up Byrd and Levitre before this offseason, maybe they did. If so, it's the right approach, but it would be nice to hear that they had tried to be proactive. If not, I've got an issue with how things are run. i wouldnt use Peterson getting the biggest deal in the history of running backs as a great example of resigning guys a year early to get a nice discount
Coach Tuesday Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 i wouldnt use Peterson getting the biggest deal in the history of running backs as a great example of resigning guys a year early to get a nice discount He asked for a list of "star" players in the past 4-5 years. You think Houston is going to let Watt test the open market? Anyhow, he was the first one who came to mind and I'm trying to actually get work done. There are plenty of others.
eball Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 He asked for a list of "star" players in the past 4-5 years. You think Houston is going to let Watt test the open market? Anyhow, he was the first one who came to mind and I'm trying to actually get work done. There are plenty of others. I will admit I could/should have narrowed my request to "stars at non-glamour positions" because when it comes to positions like DE, LT, RB, or QB the evaluation is admittedly (and necessarily) a little different. Teams will overpay early to lock up these "skill position" athletes. I'm guessing the examples you find will fit this category. Levitre is an OG and Byrd is a S -- both positions not widely considered "glamour" or particularly hard to replace. Imagine the outrage around here if the Bills had "pre-emptively" paid Levitre even $7M a season and signed him to an extension last year. "For a GUARD!!" they'd shout.
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I will admit I could/should have narrowed my request to "stars at non-glamour positions" because when it comes to positions like DE, LT, RB, or QB the evaluation is admittedly (and necessarily) a little different. Teams will overpay early to lock up these "skill position" athletes. I'm guessing the examples you find will fit this category. Levitre is an OG and Byrd is a S -- both positions not widely considered "glamour" or particularly hard to replace. Imagine the outrage around here if the Bills had "pre-emptively" paid Levitre even $7M a season and signed him to an extension last year. "For a GUARD!!" they'd shout. and neither is a once in a generation talent. we are talking among best at their position players and not a position thats premium.... not first ballot HOF guys. many times the best thing that second tier can do is push the issue and get as close to UFA as possible in order to get paid a premium. a once in a generation, league mvp type player is a whole different beast.
Doc Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 He asked for a list of "star" players in the past 4-5 years. You think Houston is going to let Watt test the open market? Anyhow, he was the first one who came to mind and I'm trying to actually get work done. There are plenty of others. Watt may or may not test the open market. If he demands to be paid more than Mario got, he's a goner. If he gives them a discount, he'll stay.
eball Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 it's going to get ugly..... I don't think so at all. The Bills have been installing their defense without Byrd all offseason, and they'll just continue until he decides to report.
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I don't think so at all. The Bills have been installing their defense without Byrd all offseason, and they'll just continue until he decides to report. and he still has every reason to report before week 1... unless theres something terrible brewing we havent heard about (possible), it sounds pretty uneventful still.
Direhard Fan Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 He has not proven he is the best and Whaley should stand his ground. This isn't FL. you know. Parker is a duffes.
BuffaloBob Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) I just found these articles seemingly confirming the demand to be the highest paid safety: http://nfl.si.com/2013/07/15/jairus-byrd-nfls-highest-paid-safety-buffalo-bills/ http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/7/15/4523720/jairus-byrd-buffalo-bills-contract-impasse-unlikely-to-end-today[/url] I have seen numbers as high as $9.87 Million a year for Polamalu. No freakin way the Bills should go for that! Parker needs to have his head removed from his arse. The Bills need to play hardball on this one! Edited July 15, 2013 by BuffaloBob
Doc Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 it's going to get ugly..... For Byrd, at most. Peters was a LT, a position with far more importance given the position it protects.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I think there also is a very real question of 'will this equal a holdout'? the truth is, if Byrd wants the big bucks, it behooves him to sign the tender. Parker wants his client to be the best paid free safety in the league, and at this point the bills don't think he's worth that much. If he wants to shop for another team to pay that much, he's going to have to prove he's the next Ed Reed or Eric Berry. Byrd has been on one of the worst defenses in the league most of his career, so if he wants the money, he'd better hope Pettine is good enough to turn a talented group of underachievers into a top 5 unit. What's the other option, sit out, lose half your money and pray the defense is so bad that your presence is the only thing that can turn it around?
CodeMonkey Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 The 4pm deadline came and went. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Long-term-deal-deadline-for-Byrd-passes/df089684-feb6-4b72-be6b-e990e9ab40ef?campaign=fb_buf_article
K-9 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Byrd is out of his mind if he seriously considers himself the best safety in the game. Or does he just want to be paid like he is? Let me know when he impacts games, play in and play out, like Polamalu or Reed. Until then the Bills are being more than fair by slotting him in the top 4 or 5. That's where his talent puts him. GO BILLS!!!
eball Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I think there also is a very real question of 'will this equal a holdout'? the truth is, if Byrd wants the big bucks, it behooves him to sign the tender. Parker wants his client to be the best paid free safety in the league, and at this point the bills don't think he's worth that much. If he wants to shop for another team to pay that much, he's going to have to prove he's the next Ed Reed or Eric Berry. Byrd has been on one of the worst defenses in the league most of his career, so if he wants the money, he'd better hope Pettine is good enough to turn a talented group of underachievers into a top 5 unit. What's the other option, sit out, lose half your money and pray the defense is so bad that your presence is the only thing that can turn it around? Right, because that worked the past four seasons. Parker overplayed his hand. In retrospect, the Bills completely planned for this. Moving Williams to S, drafting two more...all along they were ready to move on if Byrd didn't want to accept a very reasonable bump north of $7M a season.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Right, because that worked the past four seasons. Parker overplayed his hand. In retrospect, the Bills completely planned for this. Moving Williams to S, drafting two more...all along they were ready to move on if Byrd didn't want to accept a very reasonable bump north of $7M a season. I'm not sure if I adaquately phrased this...I severely doubt that such an event will occur. The Bills do have options, now, even if Byrd is still the best player. unless safety is the one position that makes the defense not work and top 5 money sounds entirly fair consideing what we've seen from the man.
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