NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 @AdamBenigni Source: #Bills Byrd demanding to be highest paid safety in NFL. Told Bills were willing to offer top 4-5 money. #Impasse @wgrz that sounds in line with speculation the bills were right around the tag amount, while byrd was right around Weddle/Goldson. really not a huuuuuge gap, if true, but if neither side is willing to budge even a small gap can be uncrossable.
jumbalaya Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Just another example of a franchise that will never get it. The Bills will continue to serve as a farm club for winning franchises.
Malazan Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 that sounds in line with speculation the bills were right around the tag amount, while byrd was right around Weddle/Goldson. really not a huuuuuge gap, if true, but if neither side is willing to budge even a small gap can be uncrossable. The rumors say it's 'above' Goldson/Weddle which could still be 'around', but the rumors about being the highest paid safety (not: one of the) don't seem far off. Parker's tactic is usually to not 'negotiate'. There was an excellent point that if Byrd doesn't end up with a huge contract that it opens up Parker to other agents saying, "He made Byrd sit out and lose money then didn't even get him the best deal". His reputation could be a huge wall to get through on getting a deal done.
G-Daddy Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Just another example of a franchise that will never get it. The Bills will continue to serve as a farm club for winning franchises. Someone up thread hit the issue, the Bills need to have a plan for dealing with players before it gets to this point. Hopefully Doug Whaley will address this.
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 The rumors say it's 'above' Goldson/Weddle which could still be 'around', but the rumors about being the highest paid safety (not: one of the) don't seem far off. Parker's tactic is usually to not 'negotiate'. There was an excellent point that if Byrd doesn't end up with a huge contract that it opens up Parker to other agents saying, "He made Byrd sit out and lose money then didn't even get him the best deal". His reputation could be a huge wall to get through on getting a deal done. i still think the byrd camp is looking in the 8-8.25 range i mentioned a few pages back, and dont think theres any indication of the 9+ that some people are talking. theres no proof of that but the totality of the rumors, coupled with a few official comments strike me as hes looking at Goldson plus a $20 bill for a feather in his cap. Weddle is at a flat 8, but the contract is two years old so a small bump over that. i think the ideal from his camp is to get the title of #1, but with structure, length, guarantees, promise to not tag, etc... we could even see a deal right at about 8 even if its not #1 money.... well, we could have is the better term at this point, i dont think we do any more. at this point i think he misses camp, plays the year and we re-enter the cycle but with the bills desire to get his cap hit down from 8+ they are more motivated to give him a signing bonus that hits the cap spread out and theres more potential for a deal.
thebandit27 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 @AdamBenigni Source: #Bills Byrd demanding to be highest paid safety in NFL. Told Bills were willing to offer top 4-5 money. #Impasse @wgrz If this is accurate, then I'm on the team's side of the money fence Just another example of a franchise that will never get it. The Bills will continue to serve as a farm club for winning franchises. So they should just give the guy whatever he wants? Gotcha. Someone up thread hit the issue, the Bills need to have a plan for dealing with players before it gets to this point. Hopefully Doug Whaley will address this. Now that I'll agree with
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Someone up thread hit the issue, the Bills need to have a plan for dealing with players before it gets to this point. Hopefully Doug Whaley will address this. problem is every team deals with this. hopefully we get better about it, but its not always the teams fault. players have leverage and desires that teams cant account for too.
Coach Tuesday Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 The assumptions and curious arguments are just flying from the armchair GMs, aren't they? Assumption #1 -- Levitre would have been willing to give the Bills a "deal" knowing how much his number would be at free agency. Assumption #2 -- Byrd " " " " ". (editorial comment: you do realize the 2nd contract is perhaps the most important contract a player will ever sign?) Assumption #3 -- The Bills have no intention of speaking with Wood and Carrington about contract extensions. Curious Argument #1 -- the Bills "waited too long" to extend Stevie Johnson? Curious Argument #2 -- the Bills don't "lock up" their own acquisitions (Kyle Williams, Stevie, McKelvin, FJax don't count I suppose). Not surprised at all to see BillsVet jump in to concur with your analysis. He just sits around waiting for criticisms upon which to piggyback, even if most of them don't make a lot of sense. I'm still wondering why no team has discussed a sign and trade with the Bills if the numbers Byrd is asking for are such a "no-brainer" and it's only the Bills who are balking. I didn't make any of those assumptions. I was careful to phrase my post in terms of what evidence we have or haven't seen, and ask questions about what their plan and strategy are. You are so eager to ferret out the cynics that you often gloss over anything that doesn't fit precisely into the witch hunt.
eball Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I didn't make any of those assumptions. I was careful to phrase my post in terms of what evidence we have or haven't seen, and ask questions about what their plan and strategy are. You are so eager to ferret out the cynics that you often gloss over anything that doesn't fit precisely into the witch hunt. Coach, sure you did. Whether you want to call them assumptions or implications is up to you, and merely semantics.
jimmy10 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Anyone think there is a pissing-contest element to this as well? Brand new rookie GM, his first big contract issue vs. the savvy, experienced agent with a reputation for protracted negotiations and contract disputes? I worked for Duke for a while down here in NC, an am reminded of the time the current president of the university came in, with no experience at schools with big-time athletic programs. Lo and behold, he's barely unpacked the boxes in his office before Coach K waves in his face an offer to go coach the Lakers. Coach K then leveraged himself a real sweetheart deal, with a lifetime appointment to the business school faculty upon his retirement from coaching. Bottom line, these alpha males are no strangers to d*ick-waving contests. I wonder how much of it is that.
G-Daddy Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 problem is every team deals with this. hopefully we get better about it, but its not always the teams fault. players have leverage and desires that teams cant account for too. Yes, agree! Let's hope this gets worked out!
Doc Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Polamolu is the highest-paid safety currently at $9.25M/year. Have fun playing under 2-1 year franchise tag tenders Jairus.
paupmvp1995 Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 @AdamBenigni Source: #Bills Byrd demanding to be highest paid safety in NFL. Told Bills were willing to offer top 4-5 money. #Impasse @wgrz That is just crazy, but not surprising given who Byrd's agent is. The Bills value Byrd as a VERY GOOD player, but not someone worth building there entire defense around. I just do not think you can reward Byrd w that kind of jack when the defense that he played on was just atrocious for the past several years. Sure he was not the worst player out there. But my god, he bares some responsibility just like every other player on the defense. When your team has been horrible for years, why on god's green earth should we make any player the highest paid at their position? We already did that w Mario Williams, and that is not looking so great right now. So making Byrd the highest paid safety is just compounding the stupidity of the Williams contract. Offering Byrd a fair contract (top 4-5 safety money is very fair in my opinion) is the right thing to do. If he doesn't want it, than he should sign the Franchise tag. If he has a great year, than we pay him like an All Pro after the season. If he is average, than we let him walk. If Byrd holds out into the season, and we like our new safeties, trade him for what we can. No reason to think that our new safeties can not step up and play as well collectively as Byrd. And lets not forget that we are already better by the subtraction of George Wilson, who may have had the worst range I have ever seen in a safety last year.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 That is just crazy, but not surprising given who Byrd's agent is. The Bills value Byrd as a VERY GOOD player, but not someone worth building there entire defense around. I just do not think you can reward Byrd w that kind of jack when the defense that he played on was just atrocious for the past several years. Sure he was not the worst player out there. But my god, he bares some responsibility just like every other player on the defense. When your team has been horrible for years, why on god's green earth should we make any player the highest paid at their position? We already did that w Mario Williams, and that is not looking so great right now. So making Byrd the highest paid safety is just compounding the stupidity of the Williams contract. Offering Byrd a fair contract (top 4-5 safety money is very fair in my opinion) is the right thing to do. If he doesn't want it, than he should sign the Franchise tag. If he has a great year, than we pay him like an All Pro after the season. If he is average, than we let him walk. If Byrd holds out into the season, and we like our new safeties, trade him for what we can. No reason to think that our new safeties can not step up and play as well collectively as Byrd. And lets not forget that we are already better by the subtraction of George Wilson, who may have had the worst range I have ever seen in a safety last year. I don't believe it. Just both sides leaking bad info at this point.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 See ya Byrd. He'd be smart to take the top 5 money now because who knows how good he will be in 2 years after he can no longer be tagged. He may not get the top $$ as the highest paid safety in the league. CBF
Doc Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 I don't believe it. Just both sides leaking bad info at this point. Yeah but based on past experience, what info do you believe more?
eball Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Amen CT. The Bills allow their own to reach peak value by not negotiating contracts before a player reaches his walk year. I doubt Byrd and Levitre would require the contracts they seek/have if the team began negotiations in late 2011. Every time the franchise takes a step forward, they'll then take at least a step back, as you note. Ok, let's discuss. A rookie knows his 2nd contract is likely the one that sets him up for life. So does his agent. Unless the player has NOT lived up to his potential before his "walk year," what incentive does said player have to negotiate an extension prematurely? It is a two-way street, you know, and if you believe other teams handle it differently I'd like to see the list of players over the past 4-5 years who were already perceived as superstars and were extended prior to their "walk year." Now, if you're dealing with a player who has been "ok" or has not lived up to expectations, but for whom the team still sees potential, an extension is much easier to work out. But, as usual, you've staked out a position which sets you up to criticize the Bills regardless of the outcome. If they "cave" at the last minute and pay Byrd what he's asking, you'll say they should have started the conversation sooner. And if no deal is reached, you'll say they're not making a commitment to keep their own stars. Well played.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 Yeah but based on past experience, what info do you believe more? Based on past experience, I believe that Ralph is cheap.
BillsVet Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 But, as usual, you've staked out a position which sets you up to criticize the Bills regardless of the outcome. If they "cave" at the last minute and pay Byrd what he's asking, you'll say they should have started the conversation sooner. And if no deal is reached, you'll say they're not making a commitment to keep their own stars. Well played. As usual, I do not afford the Bills the benefit of the doubt given the track record. I'll continue to remain dubious until I see results, which is only logical and not and emotional response. And I am not saying merely to give the player what he wants as a method of to placating fans. Last year the Bills spent mega dollars on a DE widely thought to be one of the best on the open market in years. But they need more proven talent to get this next rebuild completed ASAP. Unfortunately, as BADOL has noted in another thread, the team will add a good player while letting another go. Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of the Donahoe, Levy/Brandon, and Nix years that the team hasn't won? Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of 4 coaches during that time that the team hasn't won? This issue, IMO, is about the highest echelon of management and their decision making process.
NoSaint Posted July 15, 2013 Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) As usual, I do not afford the Bills the benefit of the doubt given the track record. I'll continue to remain dubious until I see results, which is only logical and not and emotional response. And I am not saying merely to give the player what he wants as a method of to placating fans. Last year the Bills spent mega dollars on a DE widely thought to be one of the best on the open market in years. But they need more proven talent to get this next rebuild completed ASAP. Unfortunately, as BADOL has noted in another thread, the team will add a good player while letting another go. Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of the Donahoe, Levy/Brandon, and Nix years that the team hasn't won? Do you think it's a coincidence that over the span of 4 coaches during that time that the team hasn't won? This issue, IMO, is about the highest echelon of management and their decision making process. any team adds and loses good players. its a symptom of limited resources with the salary cap. our main issue is that the addition of a good QB hasnt happened in entirely too long. hopefully that just changed. otherwise, our roster isnt wildly different than most, and really hasnt been for most of this terrible run. Edited July 15, 2013 by NoSaint
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