NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 At least this year, the playbooks are on iPads and can be remotely locked/erased by the Bills at a moment's notice, so the fact current Bills employees who may not remain Bills employees have one is of no consequence. I still believe it is borderline negligence to give a non-employee a playbook. why? Why would they give a playbook to a guy who hasn't shown up and who may get traded? If anything, It's a ploy to get them into camp, at least. Not having the playbook will put him behind everyone else and make him have a slow start to the season, at least. In what is a(nother) contract year, that could be costly. Then there is the issue of what happens if you trade him? because anyone may get traded, and many WILL be cut. if you trade him, why is it any different than anyone else, except hed have even less insight into the day to day.
eball Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 why? Because he is not beholden to the Bills while he is in possession of their playbook. We'd love to think everyone upholds the highest moral and ethical standards, but then again, this is real life.
NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Because he is not beholden to the Bills while he is in possession of their playbook. We'd love to think everyone upholds the highest moral and ethical standards, but then again, this is real life. but ultimately, what does that argument amount to.... are you of the thought that if we didnt switch coaches we would have taken his playbook away from him? or that happened last year with brees, the year before with manning? do you think clady is without playbook? how is that different than rookies getting them before they sign? we hold their rights but havent put pen to paper. i dont think the playbook is near as top secret as the argument requires to be valid. even if it was, they could give him a limited version. Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint
eball Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 but ultimately, what does that argument amount to.... are you of the thought that if we didnt switch coaches we would have taken his playbook away from him? or that happened last year with brees, the year before with manning? do you think clady is without playbook? how is that different than rookies getting them before they sign? we hold their rights but havent put pen to paper. i dont think the playbook is near as top secret as the argument requires to be valid. even if it was, they could give him a limited version. You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position. Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not. Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal? Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible.
thebandit27 Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position. Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not. Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal? Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible. No...he had been given the exclusive franchise tag but hadn't signed it.
Doc Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 because anyone may get traded, and many WILL be cut. if you trade him, why is it any different than anyone else, except hed have even less insight into the day to day. A holdout has a far greater chance to be traded than another player. But the bigger reason I'd wait to give him the playbook is to get him into camp faster.
thebandit27 Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 A holdout has a far greater chance to be traded than another player. But the bigger reason I'd wait to give him the playbook is to get him into camp faster. Not sure what one would have to do with the other....or perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding your point here...
Doc Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Not sure what one would have to do with the other....or perhaps I'm simply misunderstanding your point here... Those are two reasons I wouldn't give him the playbook until he showed up.
NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) You're obviously a bright guy; I believe a lot of this is you playing devil's advocate. Clearly, the issue here is that Byrd is currently affiliated with the team only in the sense they hold certain restrictive rights. It's actually an adversarial position. Rookies are practicing and participating with the team; an unsigned restricted veteran is not. Wasn't Brees still under contract while negotiating his new deal? Anyway, I believe the coaches likely put more emphasis on protecting their playbook than you apparently are. This is their blueprint; I think they want to control in whose hands it rests as carefully as possible. brees or manning were under franchise tags just the same. as is clady right now. i understand its a trade secret of sorts, but i dont think its near as guarded as most do - sure you arent putting them under fan seats at the game, but at some point the guy is a multi year vet and about to be one of the highest paid players on the roster even without an extension. i dont think that a player like that is who you are protecting it from. as ive said, if anything is TOP SECRET in it, they can give him 95% of it still so he can be up to speed. i also believe that a big part of what makes the coach special isnt the actual book but his adaptability to real time game decisions, and week to week adjustments and gameplanning. you can get the meat and potatoes of the playbook from watching game film. while those examples are a bit of devils advocate, i would be strongly surprised if JB hasnt been offered any access to our playbook yet. it would seem a bit self destructive for the coach to draw that line in the sand. after 2 weeks a good portion of it will be on tape as is, along with about 50 guys that spent the summer with it available on the open market. if they trade jairus (at this point, when was the last time a tagged player was traded this late in the game?) so be it. why is it any real difference to the team when compared to the other 50 guys, many of which are pretty well 100% locks to be cut? Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint
eball Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I have a feeling Byrd keeps in touch with players like Gilmore, Searcy, etc., and is "unofficially" being given the gist of Pettine's new system. Because he is a veteran, it's not going to be that difficult for him to get up to speed if and when he returns. That said, I still wouldn't issue him a playbook. I look at franchise QBs differently, although thanks for correcting me on Brees. The Saints didn't change their offense and it was a foregone conclusion he'd be returning. Just a different situation when you're talking about the QB, in my opinion.
NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) I have a feeling Byrd keeps in touch with players like Gilmore, Searcy, etc., and is "unofficially" being given the gist of Pettine's new system. Because he is a veteran, it's not going to be that difficult for him to get up to speed if and when he returns. That said, I still wouldn't issue him a playbook. I look at franchise QBs differently, although thanks for correcting me on Brees. The Saints didn't change their offense and it was a foregone conclusion he'd be returning. Just a different situation when you're talking about the QB, in my opinion. thats why i included clady as a current example this year. the brees and manning examples were really pushing it to the boundaries. ill agree, as a guy that is entering his (?)fifth system in six years(?) dating back to oregon... no one is reinventing the wheel on what a safety is asked to do. pettine may split up assignments play to play differently, but its not like he has some super secret technique that byrds missing out on. odds are he will be pretty well up to speed quickly. i just dont think its held under quite the lock and key that most fans do. i dont think, barring a statement that he hasnt been given access that its fair to assume he doesnt have a copy - even if it may be slightly modified (though i dont think the BIG secrets pettine has up his sleeve even make it out until specific weekly matchups). Edited July 8, 2013 by NoSaint
26CornerBlitz Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 @ProFootballTalk Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O
The Big Cat Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 @ProFootballTalk Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O Man, that whole week 10 deadline seems like cutting off one's nose in spite one's face...
NoSaint Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Man, that whole week 10 deadline seems like cutting off one's nose in spite one's face... it would seem things would have to be VERY ugly to get there. i imagine we likely wouldve heard more in attempts to get traded by now if he was unwilling to suit up week 1.... but thats just guesswork.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Those are two reasons I wouldn't give him the playbook until he showed up. he's been given the FA tag. Why not give him a playbook. what harm is there? its not like he can play for another team
Coach Tuesday Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Levitre and Byrd played on losing teams ergo they are losers ergo why pay them especially when neither is as good as Ed Reed and besides, they each want exactly $1-2 million per season more than the TBD capologists / cap-apologists have decided they are worth and anyhow, that money should be reinvested in Littman's lease negotiation bonus because if Littman isn't happy, the Bills might leave so we should lick his feet because we lowly blue collar scrubs are just lucky to have any team that would deign to let us pay to watch and house them.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 @ProFootballTalk Report: No contract talks expected for Bills, Jairus Byrd http://wp.me/p14QSB-9d7O I was assuming that the Bills would do either of two things: (a) work out a long-term deal (since the market has been pretty much established from the TB safety signing); or (b) reach a deal with him where he signs the tender but they won't franchise him again (a la Nate Clements)? I guess the Bills are feeling good enough to call Byrd's bluff, get him to sign the franchise, and thereby generate enough leverage to sign him long-term at a lower salary? Seems too hardball to me, when dealing with a guy who you obviously want around and there is already a market rate set.
vincec Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Well, if I were Byrd and his agent I would hold out until just before the start of week 1 and then sign the tender and report. That way I get my full salary and will be able to count the season. It would be crazy to give up money during the regular season by holding out then. These are millions of dollars that will be permanently lost. He will never be able to recover them later in his career and there's no way that holding out for a few extra hundred thousand will make up for the millions he will lose if he sits out the year. No reason to sign before then though and risk injury. If he's lucky, he will not know the system and will not even play for the first few games so he will be collecting his monster contract and not putting his body on the line. Then next year we start over with the same situation.
Malazan Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 I guess the Bills are feeling good enough to call Byrd's bluff, get him to sign the franchise, and thereby generate enough leverage to sign him long-term at a lower salary? Seems too hardball to me, when dealing with a guy who you obviously want around and there is already a market rate set. Byrd doesn't want 'market rate'. He wants to be the highest paid at his position.
vincec Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 (edited) Byrd doesn't want 'market rate'. He wants to be the highest paid at his position. I suspect that is the "market rate" for Byrd (until the next premium safety's contract is up at least) Edited July 8, 2013 by vincec
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