Byrd Skipping mandatory mini-camp

[Ralph W.]

Honestly people are talking about this like they are paying for Byrd. The team has the money sign the kid while the time is right. They let him go and this organization has not changed for the better.

[K-9]

Honestly people are talking about this like they are paying for Byrd. The team has the money sign the kid while the time is right. They let him go and this organization has not changed for the better.

 

Free agents aren't "let go." They simply choose to sign elsewhere. As is their right.

 

As I've said on numerous occasions here, there are several reasons why the Bills may be reluctant to make him the highest paid S in the league at the moment. But I can only think of one reason why Byrd wouldn't sign his deal.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Or that they want to contend and are not just a farm team for other NFL organizations. You can look at it either way.

I say you only pay the QB big money but new flash we don't have a QB. So what should a team like ours do? Keep the great players we have now till we need to pay a QB. We need to pay Byrd and shut up about overpay you are a Bills fan live with it 13 years of not paying players has done nothing. Paying the wrong ones don't work either.

 

You don't think that re-signing (right or wrong) guys like Stevie, Kyle Williams, Chandler, Freddie, Fitz, George Wilson, McKelvin, Pears, Urbik, etc. sends that message?

 

Honestly, the team has re-signed far more FAs than they've lost.

[Ralph W.]

 

 

You don't think that re-signing (right or wrong) guys like Stevie, Kyle Williams, Chandler, Freddie, Fitz, George Wilson, McKelvin, Pears, Urbik, etc. sends that message?

 

Honestly, the team has re-signed far more FAs than they've lost.

Sigh... We are not talking about signing guys to little contracts. We are talking about TOP TALENT. We don't have a QB to give money to so that excuse is out the building. You need to keep the key top talent players you draft till you find a QB. How the teams do it, Ravens are prime example they got their QB and sign him to big money while letting other talent go. Before that they kept top talent till they found a QB.

[thebandit27]

Sigh... We are not talking about signing guys to little contracts. We are talking about TOP TALENT. We don't have a QB to give money to so that excuse is out the building. You need to keep the key top talent players you draft till you find a QB. How the teams do it, Ravens are prime example they got their QB and sign him to big money while letting other talent go. Before that they kept top talent till they found a QB.

 

Kyle Williams' 6-year, $39M deal was not a "little contract", neither was Stevie's 5-year, $35M deal. Buffalo really hasn't let their big-name FAs go. Poz left for ridiculous money (and helped lead Jacksonville to the #2 overall pick), as did Levitre. Other than that, since Whaley/Nix arrived, they're re-signed basically everyone.

 

I'm not understanding where you're getting the farm-team vibe from...

[Ralph W.]

 

 

Kyle Williams' 6-year, $39M deal was not a "little contract", neither was Stevie's 5-year, $35M deal. Buffalo really hasn't let their big-name FAs go. Poz left for ridiculous money (and helped lead Jacksonville to the #2 overall pick), as did Levitre. Other than that, since Whaley/Nix arrived, they're re-signed basically everyone.

 

I'm not understanding where you're getting the farm-team vibe from...

Those are middle of the road contracts. You left a couple of players off the list, I will let you find out who they were.

[mitchmurraydowntown]

We can't pay Byrd this type of money because he had a good rookie season, get all the value out of him you can or trade him for a top LB which we need so badly.

 

 

 

I don't think I can comment on EJ3's logic, but isn't this more than just about signing the right and wrong players? It's about paying top dollar for individual components of a whole, and how many times you can get away with that. We paid Fred Jackson, and Stevie, and Fitz, but these were guys we didn't break the bank for. We did pay Mario, presumably because we thought the payoff was worth it. But can we have a defense with the top paid defensive player and the top paid safety? We have some cap space to work with, but if we want to retain some of the key players on this team moving forward (Wood, Spiller, Dareus) eventually you'll have to decide which of them you can keep, because you can't have them all.

 

If letting Byrd go elsewhere means we can keep a handful of good core players, then it might be worth it, especially if the front office thinks one of the new guys is capable enough. Personally, I would love to see Byrd stay; I'm sick and tired of seeing our good young players leave after they've established themselves. But this is more about the long-term vision, I would guess.

[26CornerBlitz]

As franchise tag deadline nears, don't expect a lot of deals: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22463132/as-franchise-tag-deadline-nears-dont-expect-a-lot-of-deals-to-get-done

 

 

Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo Bills: There hasn't been any real movement in these talks, according to sources, so based on that alone one might not be optimistic. But, man, the Bills cannot afford to risk losing any good young talent. This ball hawk is a difference maker, and if Buffalo can ever get that pass rush thing figured out, then the opportunities for Byrd to get his hands on the ball only increase. The Bills are sitting on about $20 million of cap space, fourth-most in the NFL, and getting Byrd off the tag will actually create more space for them over time. You don't overspend like mad on Mario Williams only to let your homegrown talent depart, and franchising again Byrd in 2013 would just be more expensive. It also isn't exactly the way for a new coaching and front office regime to engender positive vibes in the locker room.

[Ralph W.]

As franchise tag deadline nears, don't expect a lot of deals: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22463132/as-franchise-tag-deadline-nears-dont-expect-a-lot-of-deals-to-get-done

 

 

Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo Bills: There hasn't been any real movement in these talks, according to sources, so based on that alone one might not be optimistic. But, man, the Bills cannot afford to risk losing any good young talent. This ball hawk is a difference maker, and if Buffalo can ever get that pass rush thing figured out, then the opportunities for Byrd to get his hands on the ball only increase. The Bills are sitting on about $20 million of cap space, fourth-most in the NFL, and getting Byrd off the tag will actually create more space for them over time. You don't overspend like mad on Mario Williams only to let your homegrown talent depart, and franchising again Byrd in 2013 would just be more expensive. It also isn't exactly the way for a new coaching and front office regime to engender positive vibes in the locker room.

Exactly.

[thebandit27]

Those are middle of the road contracts. You left a couple of players off the list, I will let you find out who they were.

 

Kyle Williams' deal averages $5.59M per year according to sportrac:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kyle-williams/

 

That would put him just outside the top 10 average salaries:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/defensive-tackle/

 

That's not "middle of the road".

 

Stevie's is closer to middle of the road at an average of $7.25M/year, which puts him between 15th and 19th in salary. Still, top 20 WR salary in a league with 64 starting WRs isn't middle of the road (and that's neglecting the fact that many teams--pretty much all of them--actually run 3+ WR sets 60% of the time).

 

So who, other than those guys, did you want to see the team re-sign to big-time deals? Whitner?

 

And no, I didn't leave anyone off the list.

 

Exactly.

 

As K-9 and others have pointed out, it takes 2 sides to do a deal. Byrd has been franchised, which means he'll be on the team this year whether he wants to be or not. After that point, it's up to both sides to work out a deal that's best for the team and player. If Byrd wants $8M+ per year, as far as I'm concerned, he can get it somewhere else.

[Ralph W.]

Exactly and Byrd is a top tier player who we need to keep. Byrd is that top ten player top 5 even. Like I said we don't have a QB to pay yet we should pay Byrd now b.c we will need to keep others later. You keep your TOP talent.

 

It's crazy to lose 13 years in a row and people still refuse to change.

Edited June 18, 2013 by EJ3

[thebandit27]

Exactly and Byrd is a top tier player who we need to keep. Byrd is that top ten player top 5 even. Like I said we don't have a QB to pay yet we should pay Byrd now b.c we will need to keep others later. You keep your TOP talent.

 

It's crazy to lose 13 years in a row and people still refuse to change.

 

I think our fundamental disagreement here is that you believe that the team has been losing for the last 13 years because they haven't kept their elite talent, whereas I believe that the team has been losing for the last 13 years because they didn't have elite talent at the position(s) at which it matters most.

 

I just don't think that--with a completely new regime running the show--it's altogether smart to simply jump in and make Byrd the highest paid safety in the NFL. That's not a refusal to change, it's the book definition of change. It is, in my opinion, world's better than throwing $7M/year at Terrence McGee but letting Jabari Greer leave for $5.5M/year. I like the more prudent approach, and I further believe that--if the team feels Byrd is irreplaceable, they'll pay him that way.

[K-9]

Kyle Williams' deal averages $5.59M per year according to sportrac:

 

http://www.spotrac.c.../kyle-williams/

 

That would put him just outside the top 10 average salaries:

 

http://www.spotrac.c...fensive-tackle/

 

That's not "middle of the road".

 

Stevie's is closer to middle of the road at an average of $7.25M/year, which puts him between 15th and 19th in salary. Still, top 20 WR salary in a league with 64 starting WRs isn't middle of the road (and that's neglecting the fact that many teams--pretty much all of them--actually run 3+ WR sets 60% of the time).

 

So who, other than those guys, did you want to see the team re-sign to big-time deals? Whitner?

 

And no, I didn't leave anyone off the list.

 

 

 

As K-9 and others have pointed out, it takes 2 sides to do a deal. Byrd has been franchised, which means he'll be on the team this year whether he wants to be or not. After that point, it's up to both sides to work out a deal that's best for the team and player. If Byrd wants $8M+ per year, as far as I'm concerned, he can get it somewhere else.

 

If Byrd reminded me more of the great safeties that have played the game, I'd have no problem with making him the highest paid ever. If he were Ed Reed reincarnated, then no questions at all. And the Bills would feel the same way. They've got a good history of making guys the highest paid at their positions but those guys were truly the best at their positions. Contrary to the legend being sprouted here, Byrd has holes in his game. He's slower than you'd like at free safety, and sometimes his recognition leaves a bit to be desired. "But profootballfocus said he didn't give up a TD all last year!" Well, the kind folks at pff can use a refresher course in what to look for in free safety play. Anyone think Parker brings up pff's analysis in the negotiations? Thought so.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ralph W.]

 

 

If Byrd reminded me more of the great safeties that have played the game, I'd have no problem with making him the highest paid ever. If he were Ed Reed reincarnated, then no questions at all. And the Bills would feel the same way. They've got a good history of making guys the highest paid at their positions but those guys were truly the best at their positions. Contrary to the legend being sprouted here, Byrd has holes in his game. He's slower than you'd like at free safety, and sometimes his recognition leaves a bit to be desired. "But profootballfocus said he didn't give up a TD all last year!" Well, the kind folks at pff can use a refresher course in what to look for in free safety play. Anyone think Parker brings up pff's analysis in the negotiations? Thought so.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Think about this. You are the least qualified to grade a player. Other analysts, other PLAYERS even say Byrd is one of the premier top safeties in the league. I will take those peoples word over yours on top of me watching this kid.

 

If a young player who has already been a Pro Bowler twice isn't worth paying top money for, then who is?

Edited June 18, 2013 by EJ3

[thebandit27]

If Byrd reminded me more of the great safeties that have played the game, I'd have no problem with making him the highest paid ever. If he were Ed Reed reincarnated, then no questions at all. And the Bills would feel the same way. They've got a good history of making guys the highest paid at their positions but those guys were truly the best at their positions. Contrary to the legend being sprouted here, Byrd has holes in his game. He's slower than you'd like at free safety, and sometimes his recognition leaves a bit to be desired. "But profootballfocus said he didn't give up a TD all last year!" Well, the kind folks at pff can use a refresher course in what to look for in free safety play. Anyone think Parker brings up pff's analysis in the negotiations? Thought so.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I mostly agree with this...Ed Reed he isn't. He's a very good player, and at the right price I'd love to see him here.

[BuffBill]

Man if we could get some dumb team to give us a First round pick for him that would be fantastic! I've got my fingers crossed!

 

Buffalo Bills Be Bowl Bound Baby!

You can't trade a player not under contract?

 

Kyle Williams' 6-year, $39M deal was not a "little contract", neither was Stevie's 5-year, $35M deal. Buffalo really hasn't let their big-name FAs go. Poz left for ridiculous money (and helped lead Jacksonville to the #2 overall pick), as did Levitre. Other than that, since Whaley/Nix arrived, they're re-signed basically everyone.

 

I'm not understanding where you're getting the farm-team vibe from...

Not saying it is a bad thing to resign your best players, but you are correct, they have resigned almost everyone from a team that is annually one of the worst in the NFL. Is that how you get better? So glad Nix is gone, nice guy but terrible GM.

[K-9]

Think about this. You are the least qualified to grade a player. Other analysts, other PLAYERS even say Byrd is one of the premier top safeties in the league. I will take those peoples word over yours on top of me watching this kid.

 

If a young player who has already been a Pro Bowler twice isn't worth paying top money for, then who is?

 

My experience says otherwise. As do my conversations with others whose direct experience says otherwise. But I understand that since they aren't on NFLN or some other network with a talkng head platform that you'd be reluctant to be informed by that evaluation.

 

Nobody is denying Byrd is a good player. And I don't deny that he is a top safety. He might even be the best out there right now. But he's not the greatest player in the league, either. For my money, he'd have to dominate from the position he plays, which is very hard for a safety to do. And while he makes the occasional big play, he doesn't dominate enough simply because he's not gifted enough athletically (read fast enough) to be in a position to do that more frequently.

 

That said, I'd like to see him in Pettine's defense as it has the potential to create the kind of pressure DBs will enjoy. But I have a suspicion that Pettine might think he can get adequate production from somebody else.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

You can't trade a player not under contract?

 

Not saying it is a bad thing to resign your best players, but you are correct, they have resigned almost everyone from a team that is annually one of the worst in the NFL. Is that how you get better? So glad Nix is gone, nice guy but terrible GM.

 

I hear you...my statement was made to refute the idea that the Bills are some kind of farm team for the rest of the NFL. That quite simply isn't true in any way.

 

My experience says otherwise. As do my conversations with others whose direct experience says otherwise. But I understand that since they aren't on NFLN or some other network with a talkng head platform that you'd be reluctant to be informed by that evaluation.

 

Nobody is denying Byrd is a good player. And I don't deny that he is a top safety. He might even be the best out there right now. But he's not the greatest player in the league, either. For my money, he'd have to dominate from the position he plays, which is very hard for a safety to do. And while he makes the occasional big play, he doesn't dominate enough simply because he's not gifted enough athletically (read fast enough) to be in a position to do that more frequently.

 

That said, I'd like to see him in Pettine's defense as it has the potential to create the kind of pressure DBs will enjoy. But I have a suspicion that Pettine might think he can get adequate production from somebody else.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

If only there were a way to keep him on a 1-year deal that paid him a top 5 salary while the team had a chance to evaluate whether or not they thought he deserved top 3 safety money next off-season...

[nucci]

I hear you...my statement was made to refute the idea that the Bills are some kind of farm team for the rest of the NFL. That quite simply isn't true in any way.

 

 

 

If only there were a way to keep him on a 1-year deal that paid him a top 5 salary while the team had a chance to evaluate whether or not they thought he deserved top 3 safety money next off-season...

Ah, I see what you did there.

 

Think about this. You are the least qualified to grade a player. Other analysts, other PLAYERS even say Byrd is one of the premier top safeties in the league. I will take those peoples word over yours on top of me watching this kid.

 

If a young player who has already been a Pro Bowler twice isn't worth paying top money for, then who is?

Being in the Pro Bowl is not relevant anymore with the way it's set up.

[Ralph W.]

Yet you failed to answer my question.