Buffalos#1Fan Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Let him go. Aaron Williams has more upside False, Byrd may be our best defensive player if he signs. A. Williams would be 5th or 6th at best
K-9 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Ill generally agree but I'm not sure how long the list of free safeties is I'd put ahead of him today. We keep hearing about Ed reed and Troy polamolu but those guys best days are behind and they'll never see a deal like we're discussing. Comparing him to the young guys, there aren't many I'd put ahead of him. With levitre there are guys head and shoulders above him, with Byrd, I'm not sure that's the case. Goldson, weddle and such aren't much, if any, better from what I've seen but you only see so much free safety play unless you follow a team closely - otherwise it tends to just be highlight reel coverage as you don't see much in the secondary on an average Sunday/Monday night coverage a few times a year. I wouldn't put ANY safeties ahead of him. But that's not saying much as there aren't many good ones to begin with. Like others have said, he picked a good time to be a good free-agent safety in this league. I respect that he's good, but he has never reminded me of the best free safeties the league has ever seen. GO BILLS!!!
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 15, 2013 Author Posted June 15, 2013 I wouldn't put ANY safeties ahead of him. But that's not saying much as there aren't many good ones to begin with. Like others have said, he picked a good time to be a good free-agent safety in this league. I respect that he's good, but he has never reminded me of the best free safeties the league has ever seen. GO BILLS!!! Agreed, nor should he get paid like he's #1.
NoSaint Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 I wouldn't put ANY safeties ahead of him. But that's not saying much as there aren't many good ones to begin with. Like others have said, he picked a good time to be a good free-agent safety in this league. I respect that he's good, but he has never reminded me of the best free safeties the league has ever seen. GO BILLS!!! Curiousity, and I could probably figure this out but.... I know it might be #1 straight dollars, but what about percentage of cap compared to some of the others at the time of their biggest pay days? For instance if Byrd gets 8 per, in 120 cap that's just shy of 7% I'd guess that's not far out of line from top safety contracts in the past, even if he tops the list in today's nfl dollars
mrags Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 Never happen. Byrd is not worth 2 No.1s thats exactly why hell be traded for a 2nd and 4th
K-9 Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 If Byrd were to enter the draft, when would he be selected? GO BILLS!!!
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 16, 2013 Author Posted June 16, 2013 If Byrd were to enter the draft, when would he be selected? GO BILLS!!! 1st round easy but it just doesn't work that way. I'd rather send Byrd to the Jets for a 1srt round pick because they're going to be picking in the top 5, maybe even 1st.
#34fan Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 1st round easy but it just doesn't work that way. I'd rather send Byrd to the Jets for a 1srt round pick because they're going to be picking in the top 5, maybe even 1st. Dude, that'd be so frickin' sweet... Byrd doesn't know a thing about this new defensive backfield... Guys have changed positions, and most are brand new! We've changed too much in the last four months to be held hostage by a hot/cold safety. Trade Byrd for a high pick, and bring on blitzapalooza, baby!
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Byrd's Contract Crisis PFC http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/06/17/byrds-contract-crisis/ In the fall of 2008, Buffalo Bills star left tackle Jason Peters held out the entire preseason to display his displeasure with his current contract. Holding out is nothing new to the NFL, but in this case it was quite a dilemma for the Bills. Peters wasn’t a typical high drafted, blue chip stud in the prime of his career, who couldn’t stand the thought of making five million when he could be making eight. No, Peters was an undrafted tight end that caught on with the Bills, who thought they could build on his athleticism and turn him into a serviceable offensive tackle. Peters did just that, and eventually beat out former 4th overall pick Mike Williams for the starting right tackle job in 2006. Peters was rewarded for this by signing a 5 year, $15 million dollar contract with the Bills. However, two years later and Peters had been moved to the blind side, and been selected to an all-pro team. On one hand, he was still under contract for the remaining three years of his contract, on the other, he was only 26 years old and playing on the contract he signed as a right tackle. In comparison, both Flozell Adams of the Cowboys and Michael Roos of the Titans both signed new contracts that spring giving each of them six year contracts worth $42 and $43 million respectively, and in 2006 the five time pro bowler Walter Jones was rewarded with a six year $50 million dollar contract. According to the Buffalo News, Peters was looking for a contract that paid him between 8 and 11 million annually. Peters, heavily encouraged by super agent Eugene Parker, sat out the pre-season of 2008, only to return for the first season game and eventually was once again an all-pro selection. The Bills, not wishing to re-sign Peters to the richest offensive line contract in NFL history, or willing to risk the situation getting any worse, shipped Peters off to Philadelphia in the spring of 2009 for a 1st and 4th round pick in the 2009 NFL Draft, and a conditional 6th round pick in 2010. This story has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation of Buffalo’s young safety Jairus Byrd, other than employing the same agent as Peters while entering the final year of his rookie contract. Though both parties have openly admitted they hold no animosity towards one another, this situation will be the deciding factor. Since he became a Bill in 2009, Byrd has become a fan favorite, but not strictly due to his play on the field. Take former Bills safety Donte Whitner for example. Whitner was drafted 8th overall to replace the recently released Lawyer Milloy. Whitner was far from a household name when he was drafted, as most thought Buffalo would address their poor defensive tackle situation by adding a player like Haloti Ngata out of Oregon, once the Texas safety Michael Huff was already off the board. Whitner was a solid, yet unspectacular player for Buffalo. Constantly criticized for his lack of turnovers, his high draft selection, and his self-awarded “leadership” role; Whitner finally left Buffalo on a very low note by not showing up for media day following the season finale, cleaning out his locker prior to the media’s arrival. After numerous attempts to make his case to the media regarding his contract wishes with Buffalo, Whitner was not resigned and eventually landed with the San Fransisco 49ers a few long months later. Byrd, on the other hand, is almost the exact opposite of Whitner. Byrd was not a top 10 selection, he constantly makes game changing plays, and is known for being a quiet leader; known to lead by example. This approach to the game, and overall demeanor, has made Byrd a fan favorite for Bills fans. Byrd is very accountable when he makes mistakes, and is always looking to improve regardless of how well he plays. Byrd’s greatest attribute to date is something that often gets overlooked when talking about the Bills safety. Analytically I’m sure there are tons of ways you can consider Byrd to be a great player. Most notably, he graded out the 25th overall player in PFF’s 2012 player rankings, stating that he is the best deep safety in the league and wasn’t beaten for a touchdown all year. Byrd is stout against the run, very disciplined in coverage, and has very impressive numbers. However, Byrd’s greatest attribute is his ability to make game changing plays, something that is not common by NFL safeties these days. Coming up big in crucial situations is not something that can be measured on the stats sheet, or by the analytics sites on the internet; being a clutch player is an attribute inherited through consistent play, to a point where quarterbacks fear throwing in a players vicinity in crucial situations. Take the 2012 week eleven, Thursday night game against the Dolphins for example. While many Bills fans will argue that the Bills had the Dolphins on the ropes, I would argue that the pessimist Bills fan in me was already picturing a Tennessee-like repeat (see final minute, Week 7), where Tannehill would lead a game winning drive and spoil Buffalo’s dim playoff hopes. After a 3rd down conversion to Brian Hartline, Tannehill had two minutes on the clock to try to play spoiler to the wild prime time Bills crowd. Two plays later, Tannehill tried to find Davone Bess on an “out-and-up” pattern along the left sideline, only to see Byrd fly in to make the acrobatic diving interception. In the words of Deion Sanders it was, “an Ed Reed type of play”. Byrd had many balls luckily fall into his hands a rookie, but has since built his game to be anything but “flukey”. Instead of being known as strictly a ball hawking “center fielder” as many assumed he was during his rookie campaign, Byrd has worked to solidify his game and is now a complete safety, notably excelling in run support. While he is not yet on the same level as guys like Polomalu or Reed were during their prime, Byrd possesses the same clutch factor that made both household names throughout their respective careers. Despite all the glaring reviews and analysis of Byrd, one case still remains. Byrd is expected to be the highest paid safety in the NFL, especially considering his agent Eugene Parker is known to squeeze every last penny out of teams when negotiating for his clients. According to the Bills beat writer Chris Brown, the Bills have until July 15th to negotiate a new contract before Byrd’s franchise tender must be signed, and the Bills will have to wait until after the 2013 season to do a new deal. Based on last years numbers, one would assume he would be looking to top (or at least match) the contract signed by Dashon Goldson in Tampa Bay for 5 years and $41.25 million dollars ($22 million guaranteed). That’s quite the price for a safety, regardless of his talent. However, signing Byrd wouldn’t be simply a personnel decision to keep the talented safety in Buffalo, it would be much more. Signing Byrd would give hope to the young Bills players (and potential free agents) that this franchise is trying to build into contender. Signing Byrd would give players like Marcell Dareus and Eric Wood more motivation to sign with the team following the 2013 season, as well as CJ Spiller who (if he plays at the same level he did last year) will be the next in line for a very large pay raise. Buffalo is not a good enough team to let one of their only all-pro talented players walk. According to recent reports, Buffalo is approximately $19 million under the 2013 salary cap, further, the Bills could save nearly $3 million if they decide to cut Brad Smith, pushing this number to a hypothetical $22 million dollars under the cap. Buffalo seems to be in a perfect position to make Byrd the highest paid safety in the NFL. So is Byrd worth the contract he is expected to ask for to stay in Buffalo? Based on all the external factors involved, as well as the impact Byrd would have in Buffalo for the immediate future, it would seem to be a no-brainer. We’ll see if Doug Whaley feels the same way.[/Quote] Edited June 17, 2013 by EJ3
mrags Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Byrd's Contract Crisis PFC http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/06/17/byrds-contract-crisis/ that was Wayyyyyy!!! Too long
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) that was Wayyyyyy!!! Too long Really? Well it's good for anyone else that has a minute. Edited June 17, 2013 by EJ3
PromoTheRobot Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Byrd's Contract Crisis PFC http://www.profootba...ontract-crisis/ I don't get the leap in logic that making Byrd the most-paid motivates Wood, Spiller and Dareus to re-sign...other than the notion that the Bills are pushovers. PTR
Ralph W. Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) I don't get the leap in logic that making Byrd the most-paid motivates Wood, Spiller and Dareus to re-sign...other than the notion that the Bills are pushovers. Or that they want to contend and are not just a farm team for other NFL organizations. You can look at it either way. I say you only pay the QB big money but new flash we don't have a QB. So what should a team like ours do? Keep the great players we have now till we need to pay a QB. We need to pay Byrd and shut up about overpay you are a Bills fan live with it 13 years of not paying players has done nothing. Paying the wrong ones don't work either. Edited June 18, 2013 by EJ3
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 17, 2013 Author Posted June 17, 2013 Byrd would be our most over-paid player based on his last 3 years of production. If he played all 4 years like he played as a rookie, I'd be there waving the flag myself but that hasn't been the case.
3rdand12 Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 EJ3 , that was a darned good find. Thanks for posting that up. Very reassuring that Byrd is worth serious consideration long term. He is vastly underpaid up till now. To overpay him to a degree would be reward for his hard work. And although Buffalo FO has been a little on the fringe about these things most years, the last two years they have done the right things . I hope we sign him longterm . I am now officially concerned we want the draft picks instead but i will say now he is a player that represents what i wish for from a Bill. and it's not my money : ) Byrd would be our most over-paid player based on his last 3 years of production. If he played all 4 years like he played as a rookie, I'd be there waving the flag myself but that hasn't been the case. Because he learned how to tackle and Hit Mitch? C'mon man !
K-9 Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 The worst thing Byrd can do is ever play in the league again. He's becoming a 1st ballot HOFer as an unsigned, franchise tagged safety. And the legend just continues to grow! GO BILLS!!!
PromoTheRobot Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) Or that they want to contend and are not just a farm team for other NFL organizations. You can look at it either way. I say you only pay the QB big money but new flash we don't have a QB. So what should a team like ours do? Keep the great players we have now till we need to pay a QB. We need to pay Byrd and shut up about overpay you are a Bills fan live with it 13 years of not paying players has done nothing. Paying the wrong ones don't work either. So the players we do pay are the wrong ones and the ones we don't are the ones we should have kept?. Just trying to understand the logic here because I seem to recall much rejoicing when we signed Mario Williams. Was he a mistake? Was extending Fred Jackson a mistake? Stevie Johnson? I guess letting Jason Peters go was a mistake. I mean look at him now. Who wouldn't wish he was still a Bill? PTR Edited June 18, 2013 by PromoTheRobot
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 18, 2013 Author Posted June 18, 2013 EJ3 , that was a darned good find. Thanks for posting that up. Very reassuring that Byrd is worth serious consideration long term. He is vastly underpaid up till now. To overpay him to a degree would be reward for his hard work. And although Buffalo FO has been a little on the fringe about these things most years, the last two years they have done the right things . I hope we sign him longterm . I am now officially concerned we want the draft picks instead but i will say now he is a player that represents what i wish for from a Bill. and it's not my money : ) Because he learned how to tackle and Hit Mitch? C'mon man ! Hopefully our LB's learn how to tackle earlier so Byrd won't have to as much.
Ralph W. Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) So the players we do pay are the wrong ones and the ones we don't are the ones we should have kept?. Just trying to understand the logic here because I seem to recall much rejoicing when we signed Mario Williams. Was he a mistake? Was extending Fred Jackson a mistake? Stevie Johnson? I guess letting Jason Peters go was a mistake. I mean look at him now. Who wouldn't wish he was still a Bill? You are taking it too literal, they had no problems paying Merriman, Fitz, and Fred has been nothing but injured since he signed. Sad you are only looking for extremes, we have signed people we shouldn't and let go of players that flourished. Simple no extremes like you try to make everything. PTR Edited June 18, 2013 by EJ3
Rubes Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 So the players we do pay are the wrong ones and the ones we don't are the ones we should have kept?. Just trying to understand the logic here because I seem to recall much rejoicing when we signed Mario Williams. Was he a mistake? Was extending Fred Jackson a mistake? Stevie Johnson? I guess letting Jason Peters go was a mistake. I mean look at him now. Who wouldn't wish he was still a Bill? PTR I don't think I can comment on EJ3's logic, but isn't this more than just about signing the right and wrong players? It's about paying top dollar for individual components of a whole, and how many times you can get away with that. We paid Fred Jackson, and Stevie, and Fitz, but these were guys we didn't break the bank for. We did pay Mario, presumably because we thought the payoff was worth it. But can we have a defense with the top paid defensive player and the top paid safety? We have some cap space to work with, but if we want to retain some of the key players on this team moving forward (Wood, Spiller, Dareus) eventually you'll have to decide which of them you can keep, because you can't have them all. If letting Byrd go elsewhere means we can keep a handful of good core players, then it might be worth it, especially if the front office thinks one of the new guys is capable enough. Personally, I would love to see Byrd stay; I'm sick and tired of seeing our good young players leave after they've established themselves. But this is more about the long-term vision, I would guess.
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