NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 No disagreement on Byrd's performance but do you think these negotiations get on the wrong foot when players/agents get adversarial right off the bat? Do you think more would be getting done if Byrd was in camp? PTR to some degree, you are confusing extensions with time remaining under contract with tagged players with regards to what is expected. if he was under contract i think its fair to debate the merits of attending but he played his full rookie deal and made no noise. at some point he has to draw a line in the sand.
Nanker Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 Let me know when someone knows exactly what the Bills are offering. B.c as of now no one knows except for some random rumor that was MONTHS ago. Well we do know the franchise tag for Safeties is $6.9million and change. There is that. So, one would think at a minimum The Bills are offering something along the lines of $7m a year. How much, how many years, how much in signing bonus, and how much is guaranteed are unknown - just like in pretty much every other contract negotiation in The League. We won't know real numbers until after he's signed. Hopefully, it'll be with The Bills.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 don't know if talks are adversarial. Byrd, through his agent, has not exactly dug in, but is sticking to what they believe is fair. The Bills obviously disagree. there's no animosity here to my knowledge. and why should Byrd show up to camp and give up a semblance of leverage. take sports out of the equation. this is a black and white business negotiation, and to suggest one side should do something that you might not do is a little naive to suggest. i don't mean to be mean here, but couldn't the same thing be said of the Bills. might it not be in their best interest to sit down in Byrd's living room or Parker's office and hash this out? jw I do understand that Byrd is not under contract. I'm not suggesting Byrd participate in drills. Maybe it's just how I think but if Byrd just showed up at a practice just to show that he still cares about the team I would think that gesture would go over well. But maybe that isn't even allowed if he's not under contract. I suppose the same idea of a goodwill gesture would apply to the Bills. Russ Brandon could bring some cookies to Byrd's house, but I'm guessing Parker would not want Byrd talking to the Bills without him there. PTR
Ralph W. Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I do understand that Byrd is not under contract. I'm not suggesting Byrd participate in drills. Maybe it's just how I think but if Byrd just showed up at a practice just to show that he still cares about the team I would think that gesture would go over well. But maybe that isn't even allowed if he's not under contract. I suppose the same idea of a goodwill gesture would apply to the Bills. Russ Brandon could bring some cookies to Byrd's house, but I'm guessing Parker would not want Byrd talking to the Bills without him there. PTR No player would ever risk it and I wouldn't want them to. You get injured you're screwed. You sign that franchise tag you are screwed also b.c then the team owns you. This is the only time of leverage a player has right now which is very small window when you think about it. They need to do everything possible to make sure they have a future for themselves. Edited June 14, 2013 by EJ3
NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I do understand that Byrd is not under contract. I'm not suggesting Byrd participate in drills. Maybe it's just how I think but if Byrd just showed up at a practice just to show that he still cares about the team I would think that gesture would go over well. But maybe that isn't even allowed if he's not under contract. I suppose the same idea of a goodwill gesture would apply to the Bills. Russ Brandon could bring some cookies to Byrd's house, but I'm guessing Parker would not want Byrd talking to the Bills without him there. PTR byrd gave plenty of goodwill all last year not holding out and playing. you are thinking as a fan, not as a negotiator - you are using your heart not your head here -- his agent is paid to not make that mistake, and not to let his player show up and do the same... Edited June 14, 2013 by NoSaint
nucci Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 No player would ever risk it and I wouldn't want them to. You get injured you're screwed. You sign that franchise tag you are screwed also b.c then the team owns you. This is the only time of leverage a player has right now which is very small window when you think about it. They need to do everything possible to make sure they have a future for themselves. Many players play under the tag. Welker did last year. Doesn't the team own every player that is under contract?
CodeMonkey Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 byrd gave plenty of goodwill all last year not holding out and playing. you are thinking as a fan, not as a negotiator - you are using your heart not your head here -- his agent is paid to not make that mistake, and not to let his player show up and do the same... Exactly.
mitchmurraydowntown Posted June 14, 2013 Author Posted June 14, 2013 byrd gave plenty of goodwill all last year not holding out and playing. you are thinking as a fan, not as a negotiator - you are using your heart not your head here -- his agent is paid to not make that mistake, and not to let his player show up and do the same... Goodwill ?? He got handed a $6.9 Million check he isn't cashing, there's some goodwill there as well.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) byrd gave plenty of goodwill all last year not holding out and playing. you are thinking as a fan, not as a negotiator - you are using your heart not your head here -- his agent is paid to not make that mistake, and not to let his player show up and do the same... I fail to see how just showing up...not participating, not working out...just showing up for 5 minutes, destroys your negotiating position. (I'm assuming there isn't some rule or restriction that would prevent that.) PTR Edited June 14, 2013 by PromoTheRobot
NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I fail to see how just showing up...not participating, not working out...just showing up for 5 minutes, destroys your negotiating position. (I'm assuming there isn't some rule or restriction that would prevent that.) PTR because the player starts hanging out with friends, getting sentimental, maybe some ribbing about hurrying up and getting out here with the rest of us.... and the player starts using emotion and not cold hard business sense in his decision. hence an agent doesnt want it. would you want to show up and sit in the corner and not participate at a workplace you have been a part of for years? Edited June 14, 2013 by NoSaint
PromoTheRobot Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 because the player starts hanging out with friends, getting sentimental, maybe some ribbing about hurrying up and getting out here with the rest of us.... and the player starts using emotion and not cold hard business sense in his decision. hence an agent doesnt want it. would you want to show up and sit in the corner and not participate at a workplace you have been a part of for years? Well if that happens then you have to wonder who is calling the shots? The player of the agent? My argument is if you show some concern for your team, even while you are in the middle of hard negotiations, maybe things get done quicker because you are defusing a tense situation. And who said anything about showing up and sitting a corner. Walking, say hi, walk out. 5 minutes tops. Nothing is gained from being a hardass. PTR
NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Well if that happens then you have to wonder who is calling the shots? The player of the agent? My argument is if you show some concern for your team, even while you are in the middle of hard negotiations, maybe things get done quicker because you are defusing a tense situation. And who said anything about showing up and sitting a corner. Walking, say hi, walk out. 5 minutes tops. Nothing is gained from being a hardass. PTR you are still looking at this as someone that wants the best for the team, not the best for his family. and i am not sure what you see gained from being in the building less then 5 minutes? things can certainly be gained by being a hardass. and honestly, every year someone is sitting with the tag til nearly camp. it happens. this isnt weird, its common in the nfl. for a reason. Edited June 14, 2013 by NoSaint
eball Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I fail to see how just showing up...not participating, not working out...just showing up for 5 minutes, destroys your negotiating position. (I'm assuming there isn't some rule or restriction that would prevent that.) PTR I'm no expert on this subject, but wouldn't the fact Byrd is not under contract prohibit him from "voluntarily" visiting team facilities? Since he could very likely wind up somewhere else, why would the team want him there watching? His current status with respect to the Buffalo Bills is no different than yours or mine.
NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) I'm no expert on this subject, but wouldn't the fact Byrd is not under contract prohibit him from "voluntarily" visiting team facilities? Since he could very likely wind up somewhere else, why would the team want him there watching? His current status with respect to the Buffalo Bills is no different than yours or mine. i believe he can be in the facility still, but i still dont see what PTR is alleging is gained from a less than 5 minute visit. and like you said, theres still reason the team may not want to let him in. Edited June 14, 2013 by NoSaint
PromoTheRobot Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 I'm no expert on this subject, but wouldn't the fact Byrd is not under contract prohibit him from "voluntarily" visiting team facilities? Since he could very likely wind up somewhere else, why would the team want him there watching? His current status with respect to the Buffalo Bills is no different than yours or mine. As I said before there may be reasons he can't visit even if he wanted to. @No Saint: That's just me. I like to negotiate with a smile, not a scowl. PTR
NoSaint Posted June 14, 2013 Posted June 14, 2013 As I said before there may be reasons he can't visit even if he wanted to. @No Saint: That's just me. I like to negotiate with a smile, not a scowl. PTR just because its via phone, doesnt mean its hostile. they are following standard operating procedures, doesnt mean theres any bad blood or hostility. they could be jolly and friendly trading calls periodically.
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 How about locking Eugene Parker and Mike Pettine in a room. I would trust Mike's judgement on how valuable and replaceable Byrd is to the Defence. Lets get a bit of "kill or hurt" Pettine mentality before Parker leaves the room.
BillnutinHouston Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) I fail to see how just showing up...not participating, not working out...just showing up for 5 minutes, destroys your negotiating position. (I'm assuming there isn't some rule or restriction that would prevent that.) PTR I'll play along. Sure, if I'm his agent, I let him visit the Bills. Then I insist that he promptly visit the remaining 31 teams. To personally appear in Buffalo (only) concedes leverage by revealing a desire to come back to THIS PARTICULAR team, to the exclusion of the others, thereby undermining your agent's effort to obtain max value by limiting the market. Must think with head, not heart. Edited June 15, 2013 by BillnutinHouston
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I'll play along. Sure, if I'm his agent, I let him visit the Bills. Then I insist that he promptly visit the remaining 31 teams. To personally appear in Buffalo (only) concedes leverage by revealing a desire to come back to THIS PARTICULAR team, to the exclusion of the others, thereby undermining your agent's effort to obtain max value by limiting the market. Must think with head, not heart. Maybe he will start thinking about his wallet when the Bills start fining him for failing to attend Training Camp. Happy for him to talk to any of the other 31 teams on basis they compensate the Bills with 2 first round draft picks if they want to sign him. Those are the NFL rules. My head says 2 first rounders rather than be held to ransom by Eugene Parker.
nucci Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Maybe he will start thinking about his wallet when the Bills start fining him for failing to attend Training Camp. Happy for him to talk to any of the other 31 teams on basis they compensate the Bills with 2 first round draft picks if they want to sign him. Those are the NFL rules. My head says 2 first rounders rather than be held to ransom by Eugene Parker. Never happen. Byrd is not worth 2 No.1s
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