BillnutinHouston Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Never happen. Byrd is not worth 2 No.1s Would be nice though!
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Never happen. Byrd is not worth 2 No.1s I agree. So perhaps he isn't as good as first imagined. Seems like Parker's main negotiation leverage has been "killed off" if no other team is prepared to pay the compensation required under NFL rules. Sign up to the franchise tag or don't get paid and the Bills retain your rights for 2014. Byrd stands to lose a lot of $$$'s. It's an interesting debate as to how many players are actually worth 2 first round draft picks.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Maybe he will start thinking about his wallet when the Bills start fining him for failing to attend Training Camp. Happy for him to talk to any of the other 31 teams on basis they compensate the Bills with 2 first round draft picks if they want to sign him. Those are the NFL rules. My head says 2 first rounders rather than be held to ransom by Eugene Parker. Besides what Nucci said, the Bills can't fine Byrd because he's not under contract.
8-8 Forever? Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 He is gone. Just move on. Seems his agent wants top DB $$$ , Bills will not pay it , and that's it. Andy Levitre all over again.
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Besides what Nucci said, the Bills can't fine Byrd because he's not under contract. True. But in the meantime the Bills are not paying Byrd but hold his NFL contract rights. However surely his Franchise Tag Offer of $6.91m will involve him participating in Training Camp. If he fails to do so surely there will be a monetary hit to Byrds contract (in effect he loses money and hurts his wallet).
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Maybe he will start thinking about his wallet when the Bills start fining him for failing to attend Training Camp. Happy for him to talk to any of the other 31 teams on basis they compensate the Bills with 2 first round draft picks if they want to sign him. Those are the NFL rules. My head says 2 first rounders rather than be held to ransom by Eugene Parker. If another team signed a non-exclusive tagged player then they'd surrender 2 1st round picks to the team that tagged him. That's one option here and I believe these are the others. Byrd and the Bills can negotiate a new contract thru 7/15, after 7/15 the Bills can only sign Byrd to a one-year deal, the Bills can remove the tag and he becomes a free agent, he signs the franchise tag offer, another team offers him a deal the Bills match, another team offers him a deal the Bils don't match and the Bills get 2 first rounders from that team, or he sits out the season. What I'm not clear on is whether or not the Bills still retain his bargaining rights under the tag if he refuses to sign it and chooses to sit out the season? Based on the drafting of a couple safeties and moving WIlliams to safefy from CB it appears the team was/is prepared for any and all options, and this is not the same management/coaching group that Parker pushed around in dealings with Peters. IMO, Parker is can play hardball but I seriously doubt he is going to extract any more money from the Bills than slightly over market here although number of years and guaranteed money are up for grabs probably the issues. And who wants to give up 2 number 1's for a free agent safety?
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 My understanding is that if Byrd sits out the season the Bills can choose to retain his NFL contract rights in the 2014 season. I'm not sure but it may involve using the Franchise Tag again. Either way it still gives the Bills a lot of leverage.
RuntheDamnBall Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 How about locking Eugene Parker and Mike Pettine in a room. I would trust Mike's judgement on how valuable and replaceable Byrd is to the Defence. Lets get a bit of "kill or hurt" Pettine mentality before Parker leaves the room. And Parker would agree to this why, exactly?
K-9 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 The only leverage Byrd has is the fact that he's a good safety coming off a Pro Bowl and 2nd Team All Pro season. Good as he is, that ain't much. Does anyone really think the Bills will have a problem suiting up someone else if he chooses not to play for the Bills? They will simply plug in another player and move on. We're not talking about an All Pro QB here. GO BILLS!!!
Nanker Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 My understanding is that if Byrd sits out the season the Bills can choose to retain his NFL contract rights in the 2014 season. I'm not sure but it may involve using the Franchise Tag again. Either way it still gives the Bills a lot of leverage. I believe you are correct. I know if he signs his tag this year, The Bills can tag him again in 2014. It was in Levy's power to do to Clements, but he refused to do so and Clements walked and we got strunes in return. Love Marv, but he was a disaster as GM.
NoSaint Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 (edited) Maybe he will start thinking about his wallet when the Bills start fining him for failing to attend Training Camp. Happy for him to talk to any of the other 31 teams on basis they compensate the Bills with 2 first round draft picks if they want to sign him. Those are the NFL rules. My head says 2 first rounders rather than be held to ransom by Eugene Parker. I've held off and held off but man.... Each post you make on this seems more out of touch with the reality of the situation than the post before. It's a negotiation. It's standard practice, even though it hasn't happened much in buffalo. Chill and let it play out. The next 3 weeks are unlikely to see any movement. Come mid July we will know a lot more. We aren't getting 2 firsts. He isn't sitting out all year. Overwhelming odds are he suits up week 1 for buffalo and its a question of whether we get to do this again next year or not (as the tag even with increase for his second would still be reasonable) Edited June 15, 2013 by NoSaint
plenzmd1 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I believe you are correct. I know if he signs his tag this year, The Bills can tag him again in 2014. It was in Levy's power to do to Clements, but he refused to do so and Clements walked and we got strunes in return. Love Marv, but he was a disaster as GM. Technically, Clements signed his one year franchise tag when the Bills agreed they would not franchise him a second time, and that is when he walked . You all turning on Byrd surprises me. This is is one chance at big money, an he and Parker would be idiots for not using every ounce of leverage they have. This ain't Tom Brady taking one for the team...this is a guy who if he blows his knee out ain't getting a dime in guaranteed money in 2014. I agree with Saint, chill until July and then see what happens...cause ain't nothin happening until that deadline gets real damn close
NoSaint Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Technically, Clements signed his one year franchise tag when the Bills agreed they would not franchise him a second time, and that is when he walked . You all turning on Byrd surprises me. This is is one chance at big money, an he and Parker would be idiots for not using every ounce of leverage they have. This ain't Tom Brady taking one for the team...this is a guy who if he blows his knee out ain't getting a dime in guaranteed money in 2014. I agree with Saint, chill until July and then see what happens...cause ain't nothin happening until that deadline gets real damn close Even brees and manning took negotiations up to the wire the last two years. It's just nature of the beast.
K-9 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Technically, Clements signed his one year franchise tag when the Bills agreed they would not franchise him a second time, and that is when he walked . You all turning on Byrd surprises me. This is is one chance at big money, an he and Parker would be idiots for not using every ounce of leverage they have. This ain't Tom Brady taking one for the team...this is a guy who if he blows his knee out ain't getting a dime in guaranteed money in 2014. I agree with Saint, chill until July and then see what happens...cause ain't nothin happening until that deadline gets real damn close I see far less turning on Byrd than I do little to no appreciation for the Bills' side in this negotiation. Both sides have solid reasons for their respective positions. GO BILLS!!! Even brees and manning took negotiations up to the wire the last two years. It's just nature of the beast. Quarterback and safety. One is not like the other. GO BILLS!!!
peterlaw Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I've held off and held off but man.... Each post you make on this seems more out of touch with the reality of the situation than the post before. It's a negotiation. It's standard practice, even though it hasn't happened much in buffalo. Chill and let it play out. The next 3 weeks are unlikely to see any movement. Come mid July we will know a lot more. We aren't getting 2 firsts. He isn't sitting out all year. Overwhelming odds are he suits up week 1 for buffalo and its a question of whether we get to do this again next year or not (as the tag even with increase for his second would still be reasonable) OK NoSaint. You're right. It's time to chill. As Doug Marrone said its time to take 6 weeks off to relax with family and friends before camp. I guess some of us are too eager for the roster to be set and the regular season to begin. It's just a pity that JB is not relaxing with his iPad play book and a nice fat contract (but not too fat) in his pocket !
nucci Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 I agree. So perhaps he isn't as good as first imagined. Seems like Parker's main negotiation leverage has been "killed off" if no other team is prepared to pay the compensation required under NFL rules. Sign up to the franchise tag or don't get paid and the Bills retain your rights for 2014. Byrd stands to lose a lot of $$$'s. It's an interesting debate as to how many players are actually worth 2 first round draft picks. I don't think that is the point. Very few players are worth 2 No 1s and most are QBs....Rodgers, Brady, Brees...etc. He will play this year. It's just when he decides to sign franchise tag. Before week 1 or week 10. Bills could tag him next year but that is too far off right now. I think he signs in time to play week one and not lose out on good money. We'll just have to wait and see but this is the process with these tags.
K-9 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 OK NoSaint. You're right. It's time to chill. As Doug Marrone said its time to take 6 weeks off to relax with family and friends before camp. I guess some of us are too eager for the roster to be set and the regular season to begin. It's just a pity that JB is not relaxing with his iPad play book and a nice fat contract (but not too fat) in his pocket ! Would it be turning on Byrd if I suggested it was entirely his own decision to do so? GO BILLS!!!
Nanker Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Technically, Clements signed his one year franchise tag when the Bills agreed they would not franchise him a second time, and that is when he walked . You all turning on Byrd surprises me. This is is one chance at big money, an he and Parker would be idiots for not using every ounce of leverage they have. This ain't Tom Brady taking one for the team...this is a guy who if he blows his knee out ain't getting a dime in guaranteed money in 2014. I agree with Saint, chill until July and then see what happens...cause ain't nothin happening until that deadline gets real damn close Hope I'm not lumped in there. I'm just trying to explain the situation a bit to some that seem woefully uninformed about the rules of engagement in a situation of this sort. I hope Byrd gets his money. I hope he remains a Bill. I hope Parker... well, I don't care much about him in this equation, but I'd be happy if he doesn't play The Bills again.
BillsVet Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 The only leverage Byrd has is the fact that he's a good safety coming off a Pro Bowl and 2nd Team All Pro season. Good as he is, that ain't much. Does anyone really think the Bills will have a problem suiting up someone else if he chooses not to play for the Bills? They will simply plug in another player and move on. We're not talking about an All Pro QB here. GO BILLS!!! Why did TB hand out a huge contract to Dashon Goldson, formerly of the SF secondary that was torched in the SB? Or the contract Eric Weddle got in SD 2 years ago? Proven safeties are scoring large contracts, especially those who collect turnovers like Byrd. Byrd has more leverage, if only based on contracts handed out to other safeties in recent history. At the same time, I see the stories about Aaron Williams and his transition to playing safety, which seems a little optimistic. The Bills don't have a safety on the roster right now with more than 3 NFL starts at the position. You don't plug in inexperienced players, particularly when a new defense is introduced (the 4th in 5 seasons) and not expect growing pains. And just to compare, Aaron Williams has 2 FF and 1 INT in 20 NFL games. Byrd has 33 (10 FF, 5 FR, 18 INT) turnovers in 62 games.
K-9 Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Why did TB hand out a huge contract to Dashon Goldson, formerly of the SF secondary that was torched in the SB? Or the contract Eric Weddle got in SD 2 years ago? Proven safeties are scoring large contracts, especially those who collect turnovers like Byrd. Byrd has more leverage, if only based on contracts handed out to other safeties in recent history. At the same time, I see the stories about Aaron Williams and his transition to playing safety, which seems a little optimistic. The Bills don't have a safety on the roster right now with more than 3 NFL starts at the position. You don't plug in inexperienced players, particularly when a new defense is introduced (the 4th in 5 seasons) and not expect growing pains. And just to compare, Aaron Williams has 2 FF and 1 INT in 20 NFL games. Byrd has 33 (10 FF, 5 FR, 18 INT) turnovers in 62 games. That very well may be the case. It's obvious that the Bills don't have a S as good as Bryd on the roster. Will that stop them from plugging someone else into the slot? Like I said, safeties just don't have leverage like QBs. They just aren't in a position to bring their dominance to bear on a play by play basis. What other teams have signed safeties for has no bearing on what the Bills' position is. I fully understand that it does with Byrd, though. GO BILLS!!!
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