Kevin Kolb vs Trent Edwards

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Trent was physically able to be a good QB, he, in my observation, just lacked the mental toughness required to be a solid player.

 

The right coaching might have coddled him to greater success, but he just wasn't ever going to get there on his own.

 

Losman... What a waste; that arm was connected to that head. I don't know if the pro game was just to fast for him? He might have succeeded if he had a Rodgers like entry into the league where he had a few years to watch and learn before having the franchise put on his shoulders. His fragile confidence never recovered.

 

The lesson here is you might be able to coddle or wait out the mental issues, but you have to be delibrate. Then again they can always persist any way or come back to haunt them at critical times..... McNabb always seemed to fight a bit of this.

 

Obviously, the best bet is to get a passionate, confident competitative leader out of the gate, even if it means working on mechanics or delivery or not a physical specimen. (see Wilson)

 

These guys that are dying to win like Manning and Brady overcome the average arms and the lack of athleticism.

 

I truely hope strength of mind and competitive will are what won EJ the first round pick. If it is so, the bills are set for a decade.

Edited June 7, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[thewildrabbit]

I believe pretty firmly that QBs can be ruined by coaches. Not all of them, some just suck right out of the box. Trent edwards was one I believe was ruined by the moronic coaching staff he had to suffer through, while JP Losman just sucked right out of the box..

My take is they were both ruined by Buffalo Bills a$$clown coaches, just not in the same way

 

In 2004 JP Losman was drafted by Mike Mularkey, Sam Wyche was his QB coach his first year (2004-2005) Now Wyche was an ex HC with the Bengals from 84-91 and they made it to a SB 1988. Mularkey went on to fire his OC and called offensive plays in 2005. So JP lost his QB coach and his HC. 2006 Jauron was hired and Steve Fairchild was the new OC, Turk Schonert was the QB coach. At the end of the 2007 season Fairchild quits and Schonert is promoted to OC, AVP becomes the new QB coach.

 

So in his 5 year career with the Bills Losman had 2 different HC's 4 different OC's 4 different QB coaches and endured two different schemes with the Buffalo Bills. Not to mention Dick Jauron yanking him out of the lineup for Kelly Holcomb and later for Edwards, game after game and killing his confidence. The kid played only one full season for the Bills and that was in 2006, going 7-9 and losing the last two games to Jeff Fisher's Titans 29-30 in Buffalo, and the Ravens at Baltimore. That year the Ravens went 13-3.

 

 

Just to show how lame these OC's were ...2008 in week 15 against the NY Jets the Bills were owning the Jets defense with Lynch pounding the ball. The Bills had just made a 1st down running it and all they needed to do was run the clock out as they had the lead. On this play instead of Schonert calling for another hand off to Lynch, he calls a roll out pass play when they had less the 2 min to go in the game, and the jets with no time outs left.

 

"EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The New York Jets faced the possibility of a stinging loss that would have knocked them out of first place in the AFC East and severely damaged their playoff hopes.

A bad play call, a big hit and a lucky bounce changed all that in an instant.

 

Abram Elam sacked Buffalo Bills quarterback J.P. Losman from behind and caused a fumble, and Shaun Ellis picked up the ball and rumbled 11 yards into the end zone with 1:54 left to give the Jets the go-ahead touchdown in a 31-27 victory Sunday.

 

"Buffalo (6-8) was nursing a 27-24 lead and close to wrapping up its first win against an AFC East opponent this season when Losman dropped back to throw and was hit by a blitzing Elam. The ball squirted out and bounced around before Ellis grabbed it, tiptoed down the sideline and splashed into the end zone for a touchdown."

 

"The Jets were surprised the Bills were passing in that situation, expecting Buffalo to try to run out the clock. After all, Marshawn Lynch gained 127 yards on 21 carries and New York was struggling to stop him. Instead, Buffalo coach Dick Jauron overruled offensive coordinator Turk Schonert and called for the throw."

 

This one play created so much hate for JP from Bills fans, and really wasn't his fault as it was the moron calling the play that screwed them

 

Jauron took the blame for that play, yea sure. read the whole story here... http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008121409/2008/REG15/bills@jets#tab=recap&recap=fullstory

 

The sole reason why the Bills drafted Losman was because they were fed up with Drew Bledsoe and his inability get the ball out quickly enough. So, instead of building up that O line to give him more time in the pocket they draft a QB. One with a strong arm like Bledsoe, only one with the supposed ability to roll out and escape the pressure if needed. Ultimately he became another Bledsoe.

 

What is a downright shame is the Buffalo Bills ruined every QB they have put behind center for the last 15 years **because the FO, GM refuse to build a line decent enough to give them proper protection.

 

 

 

 

 

** See Bill from NYC post above

Edited June 7, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[tennesseeboy]

Rather have a punch in the throat or a kick in the balls?

Tough decision...

If you were up to your neck in a bucket of crap and someone threw a bucket of snot at you...would you duck your head?

[chris heff]

 

 

There is a similarity that is just as big. Both of them had some talent, but they each got their balls kicked in.

 

The fan haters will hate me for this, but the Bills have a history of acquiring quaterbacks, and placing them behind horrid offensive lines. Want some names? Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, Drew Bledsoe, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, and even Fitz.. It was ok wrt Flutie, whereas he thrived on broken plays. Fitz could also at times run his way out of trouble.

Now, what about Manuel? While the OL isn't as bad as it has been for 15 years or more, we lost our best guard, if not our best blocker. In fact, a journeyman was jut signed to replace him.

Kolb played last season behind a line that was SO bad, the Bills DL ate them for breakfast. This is saying something. If Kolb starts the season, he will in all probability be crushed early on. There is only so much of a beating a human body can take. Let's see what is left of Big Ben, and this guy probably weighs 260.

Trent was OK until he got physically destroyed. The same could be said for Kolb.

 

 

Imo, Bills Fans need to hope that this OL can provide a big running game to ease the growing pains of Manuel, who will be in there sooner than later.

Seriously? You listed those QBs and then want to blame the O line? The only two that ever did anything anywhere were Bledsoe, who was pretty much done when he got to the Bills and Flutie who did not have enough arm.

[FireChan]

Seriously? You listed those QBs and then want to blame the O line? The only two that ever did anything anywhere were Bledsoe, who was pretty much done when he got to the Bills and Flutie who did not have enough arm.

 

Yeah, RF was so bad at getting rid of the ball fast, he never got touched last year.

[K-9]

My take is they were both ruined by Buffalo Bills a$$clown coaches, just not in the same way

 

In 2004 JP Losman was drafted by Mike Mularkey, Sam Wyche was his QB coach his first year (2004-2005) Now Wyche was an ex HC with the Bengals from 84-91 and they made it to a SB 1988. Mularkey went on to fire his OC and called offensive plays in 2005. So JP lost his QB coach and his HC. 2006 Jauron was hired and Steve Fairchild was the new OC, Turk Schonert was the QB coach. At the end of the 2007 season Fairchild quits and Schonert is promoted to OC, AVP becomes the new QB coach.

 

So in his 5 year career with the Bills Losman had 2 different HC's 4 different OC's 4 different QB coaches and endured two different schemes with the Buffalo Bills. Not to mention Dick Jauron yanking him out of the lineup for Kelly Holcomb and later for Edwards, game after game and killing his confidence. The kid played only one full season for the Bills and that was in 2006, going 7-9 and losing the last two games to Jeff Fisher's Titans 29-30 in Buffalo, and the Ravens at Baltimore. That year the Ravens went 13-3.

 

 

Just to show how lame these OC's were ...2008 in week 15 against the NY Jets the Bills were owning the Jets defense with Lynch pounding the ball. The Bills had just made a 1st down running it and all they needed to do was run the clock out as they had the lead. On this play instead of Schonert calling for another hand off to Lynch, he calls a roll out pass play when they had less the 2 min to go in the game, and the jets with no time outs left.

 

"EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The New York Jets faced the possibility of a stinging loss that would have knocked them out of first place in the AFC East and severely damaged their playoff hopes.

A bad play call, a big hit and a lucky bounce changed all that in an instant.

 

Abram Elam sacked Buffalo Bills quarterback J.P. Losman from behind and caused a fumble, and Shaun Ellis picked up the ball and rumbled 11 yards into the end zone with 1:54 left to give the Jets the go-ahead touchdown in a 31-27 victory Sunday.

 

"Buffalo (6-8) was nursing a 27-24 lead and close to wrapping up its first win against an AFC East opponent this season when Losman dropped back to throw and was hit by a blitzing Elam. The ball squirted out and bounced around before Ellis grabbed it, tiptoed down the sideline and splashed into the end zone for a touchdown."

 

"The Jets were surprised the Bills were passing in that situation, expecting Buffalo to try to run out the clock. After all, Marshawn Lynch gained 127 yards on 21 carries and New York was struggling to stop him. Instead, Buffalo coach Dick Jauron overruled offensive coordinator Turk Schonert and called for the throw."

 

This one play created so much hate for JP from Bills fans, and really wasn't his fault as it was the moron calling the play that screwed them

 

Jauron took the blame for that play, yea sure. read the whole story here... http://www.nfl.com/g...recap=fullstory

 

The sole reason why the Bills drafted Losman was because they were fed up with Drew Bledsoe and his inability get the ball out quickly enough. So, instead of building up that O line to give him more time in the pocket they draft a QB. One with a strong arm like Bledsoe, only one with the supposed ability to roll out and escape the pressure if needed. Ultimately he became another Bledsoe.

 

What is a downright shame is the Buffalo Bills ruined every QB they have put behind center for the last 15 years **because the FO, GM refuse to build a line decent enough to give them proper protection.

 

 

 

 

 

** See Bill from NYC post above

 

Jauron may have been stupid for making the call, but to say it wasn't Losman's fault is just excuse making for his biggest handicap as a pro; his ability to read a defense which starts with knowing where the safeties are before the snap. Granted, the Jest did a good job of executing that overload blitz and Elam timed it perfectly, but a QB HAS to see that S/LB combo and know it's coming. Especially since that was a staple play for the Jest all season.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[MRW]

Relax. I do not assert Edwards was ruined by coaches or had any untapped potential.

 

But when you look at the progression of his time behind center in Buffalo, he CLEARLY changed in the way he attacked defenses. Something triggered that change. And given Jauron's constant reminder to avoid negative plays and the shot he took in Arizona, I'll stick with those as the main reasons he became too quick to give up on plays. He started playing scared when previously he wasn't afraid to let a play develop and take a shot.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, I think the Arizona game is a distraction. I think if you want to point to a single game that ended any chance Edwards was going to develop into anything, look at the Cleveland Monday night game a few weeks later, and the gutless coaching display Jauron put on. Edwards had a terrible game but brought the Bills back. Late in the game he hit a 20-yard pass to get the Bills inside the 35-yard line... and Jauron worked his magic. Run, run, run, attempt a 50-yard field goal that missed. Cleveland went on to kick the game winner. Jauron robbed Edwards of an opportunity to redeem himself for a bad early game performance, and that was it for Edwards's career.

 

I never liked Edwards, from the start, really, but I still consider Jauron's coaching in that Cleveland game one of the most shameful things I've ever seen.

[billsfan89]

The solution to the QB situation is EJ. Only question is how ready will EJ look in camp? IF EJ looks unpolished and raw I could see them starting Kolb who isn't good but is serviceable. No need to rush EJ if he needs to be coached up. But if EJ looks like he can play and will only improve by playing then he is the teams QB.

 

I have a feeling EJ will be our starter come opening day. Kolb is just there as an option.

[Chandler#81]

Let's see...we are comparing Kolb to Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitz? Boy are we in trouble.

 

Except for Kelly's post-operation diagnosis, it's a slow news day..

[Bill from NYC]

Seriously? You listed those QBs and then want to blame the O line? The only two that ever did anything anywhere were Bledsoe, who was pretty much done when he got to the Bills and Flutie who did not have enough arm.

 

 

No, and I didn't say that. I said that the Bills placed them all behind bad offensive lines.

[Ronin]

Not sure about you all but I am tired of the dink and dunk passes. The avg yards per completion may be at the league average...no idea. I did look up Brees and over his career he has an avg of 7.47 yards per completion so I may be over reacting to the dink and dunk. I'm just hoping EJ turns out to be more like Brees with a career rating of 94.3, light years in front of these guys.

 

With the changes to the offensive line, I feel we have to start either TJ or EJ to have the ability to scramble. With Wood being injury prone and the loss of Levitre, we may be looking at a Steeler type offensive line all year with changing personnel every other game.

Thoughts? Go Bills!

 

1 yard per attempt average is big. Top (1st) to Bottom (32nd) last year was only a 3.16 delta.

 

RGIII was kind of unusual, but after him Peyton had a 7.99 and Jay Cutler in the middle of the stack had a 6.99 ypa. YPC is probably a better indicator, but that mirrors ypa pretty closely rankings wise.

 

But in order to analyze this thoroughly one must consider that most passes thrown, estimating 90% or more, are relatively short to the receiver, say 15 yards or less. I'm sure the exact figure is somewhere accessible, but if you watch Brady, most of his throws are short ones or on the short side of the mid-range to be sure.

 

Point being, one good completion 'til the receiver gets it," for say 30 yards, really doesn't make the average jump all that much, rendering a delta of "merely" 1 ypa/ypc very significant.

[thewildrabbit]

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, I think the Arizona game is a distraction. I think if you want to point to a single game that ended any chance Edwards was going to develop into anything, look at the Cleveland Monday night game a few weeks later, and the gutless coaching display Jauron put on. Edwards had a terrible game but brought the Bills back. Late in the game he hit a 20-yard pass to get the Bills inside the 35-yard line... and Jauron worked his magic. Run, run, run, attempt a 50-yard field goal that missed. Cleveland went on to kick the game winner. Jauron robbed Edwards of an opportunity to redeem himself for a bad early game performance, and that was it for Edwards's career.

 

I never liked Edwards, from the start, really, but I still consider Jauron's coaching in that Cleveland game one of the most shameful things I've ever seen.

It may have been a distraction to you, but In my view Edwards suffered a very severe concussion from that hit in Arizona. The safety coming untouched and slammed him helmet to helmet and into the ground. Edwards probably should have sat out at least a few games to fully recover.

 

The NFL has totally new guidelines now and after you suffer a concussion like that one you become more susceptible more concussions, and the slightest hit can cause another even weeks afterwards

 

 

Yea, Jauron was a complete tool ...as were his supposed offensive coordinators. Where are they now? Schonert out of the NFL entirely and AVP is a QB coach again somewhere. I blame Jauron and his lame offensive coaches for the failure of both Losman, and Edwards. Both young QB's that simply weren't developed properly. Bad system, bad play calling, bad line, bad coaching.

 

 

Now, looking new at this coaching staff with Marrone and Hackett, and their history I expect much better development at the QB position.

[jaybee]

What will this thread mean a few months from now ? Just wondering.

[Prickly Pete]

It may have been a distraction to you, but In my view Edwards suffered a very severe concussion from that hit in Arizona. The safety coming untouched and slammed him helmet to helmet and into the ground. Edwards probably should have sat out at least a few games to fully recover.

 

The NFL has totally new guidelines now and after you suffer a concussion like that one you become more susceptible more concussions, and the slightest hit can cause another even weeks afterwards

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjpANEVexhY

 

Yea, Jauron was a complete tool ...as were his supposed offensive coordinators. Where are they now? Schonert out of the NFL entirely and AVP is a QB coach again somewhere. I blame Jauron and his lame offensive coaches for the failure of both Losman, and Edwards. Both young QB's that simply weren't developed properly. Bad system, bad play calling, bad line, bad coaching.

 

 

Now, looking new at this coaching staff with Marrone and Hackett, and their history I expect much better development at the QB position.

 

Are you a close friend of TE? Or maybe while he was here you argued for him to start over Lossman so vehemently, or bought his hype as a starter so deeply, that your personal honor is at stake?

 

I can't be sure what it is, but I am sure that I knew long before he was hit in AZ, that he wasn't ever going to be a good NFL Qb.

 

I said GOOD DAY SIR!

Edited June 7, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[BuffaloBill]

 

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, I think the Arizona game is a distraction. I think if you want to point to a single game that ended any chance Edwards was going to develop into anything, look at the Cleveland Monday night game a few weeks later, and the gutless coaching display Jauron put on. Edwards had a terrible game but brought the Bills back. Late in the game he hit a 20-yard pass to get the Bills inside the 35-yard line... and Jauron worked his magic. Run, run, run, attempt a 50-yard field goal that missed. Cleveland went on to kick the game winner. Jauron robbed Edwards of an opportunity to redeem himself for a bad early game performance, and that was it for Edwards's career.

 

I never liked Edwards, from the start, really, but I still consider Jauron's coaching in that Cleveland game one of the most shameful things I've ever seen.

 

I disagree with your premise that theCards game was not the end of Trent Edwards. He was a different player mentally after that hit. He did not appear to want to play after that.

[ganesh]

Jauron may have been stupid for making the call, but to say it wasn't Losman's fault is just excuse making for his biggest handicap as a pro; his ability to read a defense which starts with knowing where the safeties are before the snap. Granted, the Jest did a good job of executing that overload blitz and Elam timed it perfectly, but a QB HAS to see that S/LB combo and know it's coming. Especially since that was a staple play for the Jest all season.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Actually Jason Peters whiffed on that play and allowed the Jets Pass Rusher to get around him. Of course, Losman did not feel the pressure and also did not protect the ball. One of the *WORST* plays in Bills history.

[Prickly Pete]

I disagree with your premise that theCards game was not the end of Trent Edwards. He was a different player mentally after that hit. He did not appear to want to play after that.

 

It was the end alright. But I'm still trying to find the beginning...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Actually Jason Peters whiffed on that play and allowed the Jets Pass Rusher to get around him. Of course, Losman did not feel the pressure and also did not protect the ball. One of the *WORST* plays in Bills history.

 

As pointed out earlier it was an overload blitz that Losman in typical fashion, failed to account for.

 

The one thing a QB cannot do on that play, Losman did.

 

I disagree with your premise that theCards game was not the end of Trent Edwards. He was a different player mentally after that hit. He did not appear to want to play after that.

 

It was the end alright. But I'm still trying to find the beginning...

 

People's opinions on Trent Edwards can't be judged until they attempt to explain the San Diego game.

[Just in Atlanta]

Kevin Kolb was unfortunate to work behind two horrible offensive lines. I'm reserving judgment until I see him behind a decent one.

 

From what I've seen, Kolb has a deep game, and will not be a checkdown type guy.

[chris heff]

 

 

 

No, and I didn't say that. I said that the Bills placed them all behind bad offensive lines.

I thought you were inferring that had those QBs would have been good had they played behind good O lines.