ALF Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 My point is , if real players want to win the super bowl, they will not ask for a massive salary and make the salary cap undoable. Greed is bad for a lack of a better word SJBF.
KD in CA Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I've said this before, but Gore could have been one of the all-time great backs. He had 3 ACL tears before he ever got to the NFL and this was back when ACL's were considerably more serious than they are now. When he was a freshman at Miami he was maybe the best back in the country.....including the NFL. I would compare him to Sayers, just unreal in the open field. He had that 4.2 type speed plus he was tough inside. He was reduced to being a plow horse coming into the NFL......and then to turn into a great plowhorse too is just amazing. I can't even imagine Marshall Faulk or CJ2K or Spiller or someone like that being able to make that kind of transition. Gore deserves and gets a ton of respect from the players of the NFL in part because of how he has endured. Good post. I think Gore has been underrated by fans his whole career. He's been very dependable for San Fran. Â I know everyone in Buffalo is madly in love with CJ and he looked fantastic last year, but he only had 200 carries (and has less than 400 for his career). I think it's entirely reasonable that people may want to see what he does as a full time feature back before declaring him a top player in the league.
Big C Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 ^This must be the case. Kaepernick only got to 81 because he played half the year - his season just ended in a Super Bowl.
KD in CA Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I think people also lose sight of the fact there are 1700 roster spots in the NFL, so 'top 100' is a very select group.
beggar13 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Posted June 7, 2013 How about this for showing how useless this list really is? Either Gronk or Jimmy Graham are going to miss out on making the list this year, yet Dennis Pitta made it! That immediately made me feel better about CJ not making it.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) My point is , if real players want to win the super bowl, they will not ask for a massive salary and make the salary cap undoable. Greed is bad for a lack of a better word SJBF. Â I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree with you more when it comes to the NFL. With the average career being 2.5 years or whatever it is and the contracts not being guaranteed, there is never a situation where I would fault a player for holding out for as much as they can get. This isn't baseball or the NBA where owners live with the mistakes they make. They sign these guys to backloaded deals that they will never see. You get as long of a contract as you can and a high a guaranteed amount as possible. That's not greed, that's business. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
Billsrhody Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 How about this for showing how useless this list really is? Either Gronk or Jimmy Graham are going to miss out on making the list this year, yet Dennis Pitta made it! That immediately made me feel better about CJ not making it. Â What makes you think Gronk and Graham are not going to be on the list?
Dante Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) CJ isn't making that stupid list. CJ isn't making that stupid list. And if he doesn't who cares? Means absolutely nothing. In fact, let everyone underestimate him. We know he's awesome as he continues to develop. I think he could be one of the top 3 backs in the league this season. I'm impressed every time I watch him. Edited June 7, 2013 by Dante
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) I do care because I think that the players care. When it comes to free agency, endorsements, etc... it goes to the most popular players. Players of CJ's caliber would have worlds of respect and opportunity if he were on the Cowboys for example. I hate that being the case but that is reality. I used them as the example because they have not exactly won recently either. When it comes to free agency with both our own guys and recruiting guys those things matter. Certain situations are better than others to the players. Edited June 7, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
dubs Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 What is this list you speak of? The only list that matters to me is the list of playoff teams for next year and the list of Super Bowl winners. I want the Bills to be on both of them.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I've said this before, but Gore could have been one of the all-time great backs. He had 3 ACL tears before he ever got to the NFL and this was back when ACL's were considerably more serious than they are now. When he was a freshman at Miami he was maybe the best back in the country.....including the NFL. I would compare him to Sayers, just unreal in the open field. He had that 4.2 type speed plus he was tough inside. He was reduced to being a plow horse coming into the NFL......and then to turn into a great plowhorse too is just amazing. I can't even imagine Marshall Faulk or CJ2K or Spiller or someone like that being able to make that kind of transition. Gore deserves and gets a ton of respect from the players of the NFL in part because of how he has endured. Â I understand and agree with much of your post. Terry Allen is another guy who continued to be extraordinarily productive in spite of multiple knee surgeries. Â I will say that to characterize Gore as a "plowhorse" seems a bit inaccurate to me. I will buy that he's not the same player he was at Miami (nor is McGahee) but Gore has quite a bit of wiggle, burst, and speed to his game. McGahee is more of a plowhorse in the sense of being strong but fairly straight line and lacking explosion. Â Gore still makes people miss and he still bursts through openings after making sudden cuts. Â My point is , if real players want to win the super bowl, they will not ask for a massive salary and make the salary cap undoable. Greed is bad for a lack of a better word SJBF. Â The thing with Mario Williams is that the Bills virtually kidnapped him and forced him to sign on the dotted line. This was one of those rare cases of a team refusing to take no for an answer. Â So I think your characterization of Mario Williams as asking or demanding a certain amount doesn't apply here. More likely he came to Buffalo intending on using the Bills as leverage and every time he said no, they simply sweetened the pot to where no other team was gonna come close. Â IMO Mario was not being greedy. It was the supply side, not the demand side that was driving the deal. Â I agree with you that there are numerous instances of demanding players whose contracts end up hurting their teams.
beggar13 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Posted June 7, 2013 What is this list you speak of? The only list that matters to me is the list of playoff teams for next year and the list of Super Bowl winners. I want the Bills to be on both of them. Â They said last night that only one tight end was left on the list.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 I understand and agree with much of your post. Terry Allen is another guy who continued to be extraordinarily productive in spite of multiple knee surgeries. Â I will say that to characterize Gore as a "plowhorse" seems a bit inaccurate to me. I will buy that he's not the same player he was at Miami (nor is McGahee) but Gore has quite a bit of wiggle, burst, and speed to his game. McGahee is more of a plowhorse in the sense of being strong but fairly straight line and lacking explosion. Â Gore still makes people miss and he still bursts through openings after making sudden cuts. Â Â McGahee never was the player he was made out to be. He was a part-time fullback on the 2001 team. With Portis and Gore still underclassmen that is where he was going to stay. Portis left early because Gore was taking his job, then Gore tore up his knee in the spring. Even then Willis wasn't the starter. My characterization of Gore as a plow-horse back is relative to what he would have been. But McGahee really was that type of plow-horse back. He never had 4.3 speed. He was a straight-line 4.5 type guy who was hyped to no end. The Bills, and Bills fans were had by the McGahee hype. I saw a little of that same thing with the Marcus Lattimore hype this past spring. Some fans are just so attracted to the reclamation project that they can't see that what is being reclaimed wasn't that great to start with.
Bill from NYC Posted June 7, 2013 Posted June 7, 2013 McGahee never was the player he was made out to be. He was a part-time fullback on the 2001 team. With Portis and Gore still underclassmen that is where he was going to stay. Portis left early because Gore was taking his job, then Gore tore up his knee in the spring. Even then Willis wasn't the starter. My characterization of Gore as a plow-horse back is relative to what he would have been. But McGahee really was that type of plow-horse back. He never had 4.3 speed. He was a straight-line 4.5 type guy who was hyped to no end. The Bills, and Bills fans were had by the McGahee hype. I saw a little of that same thing with the Marcus Lattimore hype this past spring. Some fans are just so attracted to the reclamation project that they can't see that what is being reclaimed wasn't that great to start with. Â The entire MaGahee experience was typical of the Bills. As you certainly recall, TD actually was able to acquire a first round pick (was it #27?) for Peerless Price. Eric Steinbach was sitting there, and the Bills desperately needed a guard. Their slot was completely appropriate to draft him. Instead, they selected MaGahee and he sat as I recall 18 or 20 games before he took the field. Â Interestingly, when Levy traded MaGahee, he actually fetched a more than fair price for him. That as we know didn't work either.
BADOLBILZ Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 The entire MaGahee experience was typical of the Bills. As you certainly recall, TD actually was able to acquire a first round pick (was it #27?) for Peerless Price. Eric Steinbach was sitting there, and the Bills desperately needed a guard. Their slot was completely appropriate to draft him. Instead, they selected MaGahee and he sat as I recall 18 or 20 games before he took the field. Â Interestingly, when Levy traded MaGahee, he actually fetched a more than fair price for him. That as we know didn't work either. Â Trading McGahee brought picks in return but it stunted the team. The Bills were a team on the upswing with London Fletcher and Nate Clements leading a ball-hawking strong pass defense in support of a power running offense that shortened the game. By the end of that first season they were playing like a 10-6 type team. There was a balance to what they were doing. Willis was primed up for a 1500 yard walk year. Losman was never going to be the guy to take them to a SB but it is easy to forget that he was effective in Fairchild's play action offense where he was only asked to make big plays once in a while and not carry the offense. With that veteran cast they had a very good chance to be a wildcard team. Â The following year was a huge setback. By drafting Lynch and Poz to replace two of their important players they effectively gained nothing at all on draft day and more importantly for the organization at that moment they LOST on-field production that year. They had to wait until the following year to address the Clements loss with McKelvin, which turned out to be a double kick to the nuts, though there are still a lot of Jeff Littman/Jim Overdorf fans who laud the Bills for saving money by not signing Clements. No question, a big part of the Bills problems has been not understanding that the penalty for being a losing organization is often a VERY EXPENSIVE climb back to the top. And that is the way it should be. Bad teams should be forced to spend more money to get back to the top. The Bills were $20M under the cap every year and making more net profit than most of the league. I am not saying Ralph is cheap because he is not but the Bills seemed to take the approach that they weren't going to overpay to finish last and that is NOT how you get out of last place.
H2o Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 The thing that pisses me off is that Trent Richardson found his way on the list and CJ won't. Â Â It's amazing to look at CJ's stats and how many carries he had in relation to everyone else on that list.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 It's amazing to look at CJ's stats and how many carries he had in relation to everyone else on that list. Â Which goes hand in hand with yards per attempt. One of the most overlooked stats
KOKBILLS Posted June 8, 2013 Posted June 8, 2013 Good post. I think Gore has been underrated by fans his whole career. He's been very dependable for San Fran. Â I know everyone in Buffalo is madly in love with CJ and he looked fantastic last year, but he only had 200 carries (and has less than 400 for his career). I think it's entirely reasonable that people may want to see what he does as a full time feature back before declaring him a top player in the league. Â Trent Richardson had 60 more carries, and 8 more receptions than CJ last year for a combined 386 less yards, and he's on the list...That's an average of 4 additional touches per game, and Richardson had no where near the competition for PT that CJ had...So I really don't see why, considering this, any player would hold CJ's "part time" status against him... Â Besides...Anyone...NFL player, or casual observer, who cannot understand that CJ was one of the top 100 NFL players last year has no business voting on such things...Because the kid was absolutely electric on the field...And he made some very, very good Defensive players look really bad at times...In fact IMHO there is no question he was a top 50 player last year...He was awesome...And at times he was asked to carry that Bills Offense on his back...He was seriously good in 2012...
Ralph W. Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 THIS LIST DOESN'T MATTER TO ANY PLAYER UNLESS THEY GET BONUS MONEY FROM BEING SELECTED. EGO goes beyond money.
Santana Posted June 9, 2013 Posted June 9, 2013 This list is garbage, I mean Dennis Pita?, Darrell Revis didn't even though he might be the best CB if this is based on 2012 like it should be then that's bogus. Troy Polamalu played like 4 games last year, Ndamukong Suh only had 35 tackles last year. That's just a few players off the top that I can think of. When players are on a list called the best players of 2012 and they barely played that list loses all credibility with me.
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