Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 They were a fringe religious group who the federal government believed may have had a cache of fiearms, and the government didn't like either of those things. First and Second Amendments be damned. So if there are reports of a group (religious or not) that are thought to have a cache of illegal firearms and the AFT goes to investigate (that's part of their job) and four of the agents are killed and you call them peaceful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) So if there are reports of a group (religious or not) that are thought to have a cache of illegal firearms and the AFT goes to investigate (that's part of their job) and four of the agents are killed and you call them peaceful? I don't care what their job was, they have no business doing a job that is unConstitutional. The federal government decided to initiate force in order to deprive citizens of Constitutionally protected rights. That's the end all-be all of the argument. The four agents were acting as the arm of tyranny, and no job description absolves them of that sin. Furthermore, the federal government not only initiated the clash that led to the deaths of the Branch Davidians and the four federal agents, but on a more micro level, it may have even initiated the gunfire which escalated the situation. Edited June 5, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I don't care what their job was, they have no business doing a job that is unConstitutional. The federal government decided to initiate force in order to deprive citizens of Constitutionally protected rights. That's the end all-be all of the argument. The four agents were acting as the arm of tyranny, and no job description absolves them of that sin. Furthermore, the federal government not only initiated the clash that led to the deaths of the Branch Davidians and the four federal agents, but on a more micro level, it may have even initiated the gunfire which escalated the situation. What unconstitutional job were they performing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) What unconstitutional job were they performing? I'm not going to hold your hand. You can go reread the thread like everybody else. Take extra care reading posts 12 and 14, but most especially post 14. Edited June 5, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 We did the same thing at Kent State, and again in Waco, Texas. Kent State wasn't the government trying to protect its power, it was the state and local government being dumb enough to put armed soldiers in front of an angry mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Kent State wasn't the government trying to protect its power, it was the state and local government being dumb enough to put armed soldiers in front of an angry mob. "We've seen here at the city of Kent especially, probably the most vicious form of campus oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups. They make definite plans of burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police, and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. This is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agency of Ohio to drive them out of Kent. We are going to eradicate the problem. We're not going to treat the symptoms. And these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize the community. They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the night riders and the vigilantes", Rhodes said. "They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. Now I want to say this. They are not going to take over [the] campus. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 I'm not going to hold your hand. You can go reread the thread like everybody else. Take extra care reading posts 12 and 14, but most especially post 14. If you're unable to read up on timelines and different accounts of the incident and come to any other conclusion that it was a complicated mess that could have ended peacefully had either side made 1 or two different choices along the way, then you're more of a simpleton than I thought. So what unconstitutional job was the gov't performing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sooo..... what does Waco/Kent State have to do with Tiananmen Square? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 If you're unable to read up on timelines and different accounts of the incident and come to any other conclusion that it was a complicated mess that could have ended peacefully had either side made 1 or two different choices along the way, then you're more of a simpleton than I thought. So what unconstitutional job was the gov't performing? Horseshit, and !@#$ you. Your answer is akin to Jim McDermott stating that conservatives brought the scrutiny of the IRS down on themselves by applying for tax exempt status. The Branch Davidians shouldn't have ever been required to do something different. The federal government had no business being there attempting to take away any guns, or arresting anyone for their presumed possession. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sooo..... what does Waco/Kent State have to do with Tiananmen Square? I'll answer your question with a question. What do Ruby Ridge and Pine Ridge have to do with Tienanmen Square? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Horseshit, and !@#$ you. Your answer is akin to Jim McDermott stating that conservatives brought the scrutiny of the IRS down on themselves by applying for tax exempt status. The Branch Davidians shouldn't have ever been required to do something different. The federal government had no business being there attempting to take away any guns, or arresting anyone for their presumed possession. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What were the Davidians being required to do that was different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Horseshit, and !@#$ you. Your answer is akin to Jim McDermott stating that conservatives brought the scrutiny of the IRS down on themselves by applying for tax exempt status. The Branch Davidians shouldn't have ever been required to do something different. The federal government had no business being there attempting to take away any guns, or arresting anyone for their presumed possession. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." So how would you suggest the the government approach a situation where there is a potential cache of illegal weapons and accusations of sexual abuse? I'll repeat they were investingating accusations of a cache of ILLEGAL firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 So how would you suggest the the government approach a situation where there is a potential cache of illegal weapons and accusations of sexual abuse? I'll repeat they were investingating accusations of a cache of ILLEGAL firearms. The Constitution is the High Law, and all other laws are thus subordinate to it. The High Law doesn't provide the power or authority for making any arms illegal. The accusations of sexual abuse were completely unsustantiated, and were used for the purpose of demonizing a fringe religion. The federal government shouldn't have been there, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The Constitution is the High Law, and all other laws are thus subordinate to it. The High Law doesn't provide the power or authority for making any arms illegal. The accusations of sexual abuse were completely unsustantiated, and were used for the purpose of demonizing a fringe religion. The federal government shouldn't have been there, period. You need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 What were the Davidians being required to do that was different? Wait, what? Your argument has shifted into: "As long as a government tramples on the rights of all of it's citizens equally, there is nothing to worry about, and resistance by any one group is unjust."? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The Constitution is the High Law, and all other laws are thus subordinate to it. The High Law doesn't provide the power or authority for making any arms illegal. The accusations of sexual abuse were completely unsustantiated, and were used for the purpose of demonizing a fringe religion. The federal government shouldn't have been there, period. So NOW it makes sense. You're saying any law calling any firearms illegal is in fact illegal? So you're one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) You need help. You need a lesson in history and philosophy. You also need to either post something more substantial on this subject or shut the !@#$ up. I would much prefer you to post, because I'm really looking forward to beating the everliving **** out of you with your own stupidity and ignorance, but I'll let you choose. So NOW it makes sense. You're saying any law calling any firearms illegal is in fact illegal? So you're one of those. Is the Constitution the High Law of the land or not? If it is, then the document itself needs to be changed if you want to restrict the ownership of some arms. If it is not, then nothing it outlines holds any weight at all. Edited June 5, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Wait, what? Your argument has shifted into: "As long as a government tramples on the rights of all of it's citizens equally, there is nothing to worry about, and resistance by any one group is unjust."? Really? I can see why you have problems with internet discussions. I should really commend you for doing as well as you have so far what with you being illiterate and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sooo..... what does Waco/Kent State have to do with Tiananmen Square? In reality, absolutely nothing. In certain daffy bastards' world, apparently they're linked due to brutal oppression of blah blah blah by evil governments. I'll answer your question with a question. What do Ruby Ridge and Pine Ridge have to do with Tienanmen Square? They both have two words in the locations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 In reality, absolutely nothing. In certain daffy bastards' world, apparently they're linked due to brutal oppression of blah blah blah by evil governments. Well, since the discussion has nothing to do with my original question, I'll close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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