Progressives tout California Health care "success"

[TakeYouToTasker]

here's some words i wrote earlier. "noble and extraordinary things for reasons other than financial gain. no ambiguity to the meaning yet you misunderstood. clearly the sentence conveys the belief that noble and extraordinary things can be done for financial gain. kinda makes the cartoon above actually a little funny. just a little.

Actually, what you implied was that an overwhelming abundance of "good and noble things" (which, by the way, is a total crock in the context you're choosing to use it) are likely to be done for reasons other than financial gain. Which is necessary at a level of 100% just to maintain the status quo, of doctor:patient ratios; and which is also a patently absurd assumption to build a vital societal system on.

[Alaska Darin]

so you're saying you have nothing else valuable to add?

Like you'd be able to tell, ya friggin' chimp.

[B-Man]

For the life of me I cannot tell what this cartoon is trying to convey.

 

Good thing that I was sitting down when I read this shocker...............................lol

 

.

[OCinBuffalo]

It's amazing that you're able to cram so much stupid into such a small mind.

See? It's as I said: EII is an M&M with a 10x thick candy shell. You need a hammer to break it open, and when you do, due to the thickness of the shell, there's little room for anything inside, so there ain't much inside.

[DC Tom]

For the life of me I cannot tell what this cartoon is trying to convey.

 

It's Lewis Carroll. If it makes sense, you're probably stoned.

[OCinBuffalo]

I am also of the belief that Healthcare doesn't behave the same as other market industries, so spare me the "economic priciples repeal" routine... if Healthcare we're a free market, truly, insurance would only cover solid actuarial risks, other people would be turned away if they could not pay, and people would die at a much higher rate... instead, because we don't have the conscience for that, we have this complex game of cost shifting, skewed pharaceutical, device and supply markets, inability to define true costs for consumers because they never have to see them, and overall without influence or money you are victim to this convoluted mess.

And that has been working fine to provide healthcare to a large majority of people who need it. And that is happening because there's still competition among doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, etc. Once ACA succeeds in its goal to eviscerate competition and enforce hard controls, then the game changes. While the current doctors are stuck, they will have enough of a landing glide path to slow ride out in the sunset. But in the meantime, you will hurt the exact people you want to help, because the good doctors will slowly stop taking insurance, and will only deal with patients who can afford the service. The rest of the multitudes will slowly be pushed into high volume health clinics with inferior talent running it. Faced with the declining economic prospects, fewer talented kids will elect to pay through the nose for 8 years of medical education and you will face a severe doctor program and better hope that HB1 visa program is large enough to continue import doctors from India.

 

But at least you solved the insurance problem, that wasn't a problem in the first place.

See, this is what qualifies as reasonable discussion on this.

 

However:

 

1. The notion that a free market wouldn't still operate within the context of single payer system is patently false. The Free Market ALWAYS FINDS A WAY! Look at the following want ads....

 

....actually? Don't. I was going to show you a plethora of London IT jobs that feature "private medical" or "private insurance" = PHI as a benefit, in the job description. I was looking throught them for work reasons, and it became uncanny/impossible not to notice. However, this is even funnier, and makes the Obamacare-->single payer clowns even more wrong : http://www.reed.co.u...g-SimplyHiredMS

 

Yes, it's a job whose primary function is: "be responsible for administering and rebooking Group Private Medical Insurance (PMI) policies for several of the firm's high profile clients". Yes, an FTE whose sole job is to create and run private insurance policies for English companies, in London of all places. Anyone think there are "access to care" or "not enough people to create proper risk groups" issues...in F'ing London?

 

Yes, the free market is operating, even in the places tools say it can't/shouldn't/doesn't need to. Ask yourselves: why would any company offer such a waste of money as PHI...if the government is doing it so well?

 

England, and Canada(I'm including them only because they never shut up about this), has single payer. I thought that made them "better" than us. Well, if that is so, then why is some lucky SOB going to get a job in London with 4 weeks vacation, their own Private Health Insurance(PHI), a bonus, AND SEASON TICKET LOANS(that is a kick ass idea that I might just have to steal immediately) whose only job is to deploy the alternative to the very thing Canadians/English buffoons won't shut up about?

 

I bet not a single non-progress progressive on this board has to balls to answer these questions, since they've now been confronted with undeniable reality, once again. No, just complain about this long post(becaue it is full of nothing but why you are wrong, and it's length is indicative of how much you are wrong).

 

2. The notion that "there was nothing wrong with Health insurance"?

 

Nonsense. I worked in health insurace (2, 10k employee firms) for 2 years, specifically in understanding every single business process and every single piece/set of data they had, organization-wide, all divisions, all groups, in detail. Thus, I know, not only that "something wrong" exists, I know what it is, I know why they do it, and I know why they are idiots for doing it. They could be doing something much smarter and of significant profit increase to justify a change/ensure an ongoing ROI on the change. I had convinced enough of their senior managers of what I was saying, that I was invited to present the full idea to their board. The trouble is? Old, morally compromised men, AND, women(they were every bit as sketchy), who've been running the same game for so long? They don't want to learn new tricks.

 

Well? Instead of doing the smart thing, never mind the right thing, they've driven their entire industry, and now the providers along with them, into the idiocy that is Obamacare. Instead of getting ahead of the problem, they've played into the idiots', who know nothing about health care or insurance, hands. They chose to keep doing what "they've always done".

 

Blatantly stupid. They had the info + my project's clear results right under their nose, and they chose to ignore it. Stupidity really is a choice. I refuse to deal with stupid. That is why I left that industry. It would take a serious amount of $, and absolute capitulation to our way of doing things, for me to return.

Edited August 1, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[B-Man]

Who Can Deny It? Obamacare Is Accelerating U.S. Towards A Part-Time Nation.

 

 

CBO: Oh, by the way, the ObamaCare employer-mandate delay is going to cost $12 billion extra

 

 

 

.

[TakeYouToTasker]

See, this is what qualifies as reasonable discussion on this.

 

However:

 

1. The notion that a free market wouldn't still operate within the context of single payer system is patently false. The Free Market ALWAYS FINDS A WAY! Look at the following want ads....

 

....actually? Don't. I was going to show you a plethora of London IT jobs that feature "private medical" or "private insurance" = PHI as a benefit, in the job description. I was looking throught them for work reasons, and it became uncanny/impossible not to notice. However, this is even funnier, and makes the Obamacare-->single payer clowns even more wrong : http://www.reed.co.u...g-SimplyHiredMS

 

Yes, it's a job whose primary function is: "be responsible for administering and rebooking Group Private Medical Insurance (PMI) policies for several of the firm's high profile clients". Yes, an FTE whose sole job is to create and run private insurance policies for English companies, in London of all places. Anyone think there are "access to care" or "not enough people to create proper risk groups" issues...in F'ing London?

 

Yes, the free market is operating, even in the places tools say it can't/shouldn't/doesn't need to. Ask yourselves: why would any company offer such a waste of money as PHI...if the government is doing it so well?

 

England, and Canada(I'm including them only because they never shut up about this), has single payer. I thought that made them "better" than us. Well, if that is so, then why is some lucky SOB going to get a job in London with 4 weeks vacation, their own Private Health Insurance(PHI), a bonus, AND SEASON TICKET LOANS(that is a kick ass idea that I might just have to steal immediately) whose only job is to deploy the alternative to the very thing Canadians/English buffoons won't shut up about?

 

I bet not a single non-progress progressive on this board has to balls to answer these questions, since they've now been confronted with undeniable reality, once again. No, just complain about this long post(becaue it is full of nothing but why you are wrong, and it's length is indicative of how much you are wrong).

 

2. The notion that "there was nothing wrong with Health insurance"?

 

Nonsense. I worked in health insurace (2, 10k employee firms) for 2 years, specifically in understanding every single business process and every single piece/set of data they had, organization-wide, all divisions, all groups, in detail. Thus, I know, not only that "something wrong" exists, I know what it is, I know why they do it, and I know why they are idiots for doing it. They could be doing something much smarter and of significant profit increase to justify a change/ensure an ongoing ROI on the change. I had convinced enough of their senior managers of what I was saying, that I was invited to present the full idea to their board. The trouble is? Old, morally compromised men, AND, women(they were every bit as sketchy), who've been running the same game for so long? They don't want to learn new tricks.

 

Well? Instead of doing the smart thing, never mind the right thing, they've driven their entire industry, and now the providers along with them, into the idiocy that is Obamacare. Instead of getting ahead of the problem, they've played into the idiots', who know nothing about health care or insurance, hands. They chose to keep doing what "they've always done".

 

Blatantly stupid. They had the info + my project's clear results right under their nose, and they chose to ignore it. Stupidity really is a choice. I refuse to deal with stupid. That is why I left that industry. It would take a serious amount of $, and absolute capitulation to our way of doing things, for me to return.

Bold is mine.

 

Man, if there's a single phrase I owe all of my success in business to, it's that. I listen for it, and as soon as I hear it, I pounce like a !@#$ing cat.

[OCinBuffalo]

Bold is mine.

 

Man, if there's a single phrase I owe all of my success in business to, it's that. I listen for it, and as soon as I hear it, I pounce like a !@#$ing cat.

Pounce, in terms of investing a company that has done what it has always done?

 

Or pounce in terms of raiding/competing with a company that does that?

[TakeYouToTasker]

Pounce, in terms of investing a company that has done what it has always done?

 

Or pounce in terms of raiding/competing with a company that does that?

Pounce, in terms of building a better mouse trap and ironing out all of the inefficiencies to create a logical, streamlined, business efficient process; then implementing that fix.

[birdog1960]

See, this is what qualifies as reasonable discussion on this.

 

However:

 

1. The notion that a free market wouldn't still operate within the context of single payer system is patently false. The Free Market ALWAYS FINDS A WAY! Look at the following want ads....

 

....actually? Don't. I was going to show you a plethora of London IT jobs that feature "private medical" or "private insurance" = PHI as a benefit, in the job description. I was looking throught them for work reasons, and it became uncanny/impossible not to notice. However, this is even funnier, and makes the Obamacare-->single payer clowns even more wrong : http://www.reed.co.u...g-SimplyHiredMS

 

Yes, it's a job whose primary function is: "be responsible for administering and rebooking Group Private Medical Insurance (PMI) policies for several of the firm's high profile clients". Yes, an FTE whose sole job is to create and run private insurance policies for English companies, in London of all places. Anyone think there are "access to care" or "not enough people to create proper risk groups" issues...in F'ing London?

 

Yes, the free market is operating, even in the places tools say it can't/shouldn't/doesn't need to. Ask yourselves: why would any company offer such a waste of money as PHI...if the government is doing it so well?

 

England, and Canada(I'm including them only because they never shut up about this), has single payer. I thought that made them "better" than us. Well, if that is so, then why is some lucky SOB going to get a job in London with 4 weeks vacation, their own Private Health Insurance(PHI), a bonus, AND SEASON TICKET LOANS(that is a kick ass idea that I might just have to steal immediately) whose only job is to deploy the alternative to the very thing Canadians/English buffoons won't shut up about?

 

I bet not a single non-progress progressive on this board has to balls to answer these questions, since they've now been confronted with undeniable reality, once again. No, just complain about this long post(becaue it is full of nothing but why you are wrong, and it's length is indicative of how much you are wrong).

 

2. The notion that "there was nothing wrong with Health insurance"?

 

Nonsense. I worked in health insurace (2, 10k employee firms) for 2 years, specifically in understanding every single business process and every single piece/set of data they had, organization-wide, all divisions, all groups, in detail. Thus, I know, not only that "something wrong" exists, I know what it is, I know why they do it, and I know why they are idiots for doing it. They could be doing something much smarter and of significant profit increase to justify a change/ensure an ongoing ROI on the change. I had convinced enough of their senior managers of what I was saying, that I was invited to present the full idea to their board. The trouble is? Old, morally compromised men, AND, women(they were every bit as sketchy), who've been running the same game for so long? They don't want to learn new tricks.

 

Well? Instead of doing the smart thing, never mind the right thing, they've driven their entire industry, and now the providers along with them, into the idiocy that is Obamacare. Instead of getting ahead of the problem, they've played into the idiots', who know nothing about health care or insurance, hands. They chose to keep doing what "they've always done".

 

Blatantly stupid. They had the info + my project's clear results right under their nose, and they chose to ignore it. Stupidity really is a choice. I refuse to deal with stupid. That is why I left that industry. It would take a serious amount of $, and absolute capitulation to our way of doing things, for me to return.

you just don't get it, do you? single payer is aimed at providing a chicken in every pot and some salad. that improves the life expectancy, infant mortality, etc that we so frequently see cited in soft publications like nejm. it's not aimed at providing coq au vin with truffles to everyone. people can and do pay for the extras. there's no intent to stop them. and they might live longer and healthier due to the extra money they put out but it's very debatable. more likely they'll wait less for procedures and tests.

 

what we have now is a system in which a few people get coq au vin, many people get chicken wings and way too many get table scraps on occasion. they don't generally do well health wise...and we end up ranking 37th in the world in life expectancy. that's what single payer advocates aim to fix. it's a obviously a lower priority to others.

[Joe Miner]

you just don't get it, do you? single payer is aimed at providing a chicken in every pot and some salad. that improves the life expectancy, infant mortality, etc that we so frequently see cited in soft publications like nejm. it's not aimed at providing coq au vin with truffles to everyone. people can and do pay for the extras. there's no intent to stop them. and they might live longer and healthier due to the extra money they put out but it's very debatable. more likely they'll wait less for procedures and tests.

 

what we have now is a system in which a few people get coq au vin, many people get chicken wings and way too many get table scraps on occasion. they don't generally do well health wise...and we end up ranking 37th in the world in life expectancy. that's what single payer advocates aim to fix. it's a obviously a lower priority to others.

 

There will never be a chicken in every pot.

 

Some people don't even like chicken...or pot.

[GG]

what we have now is a system in which a few people get coq au vin, many people get chicken wings and way too many get table scraps on occasion. they don't generally do well health wise...and we end up ranking 37th in the world in life expectancy. that's what single payer advocates aim to fix. it's a obviously a lower priority to others.

 

Yeay statistics. Do the life expectancy statistics have a predictive value on quality and availability of healthcare or do they speak more on lifestyle choices?

[OCinBuffalo]

you just don't get it, do you? single payer is aimed at providing a chicken in every pot and some salad. that improves the life expectancy, infant mortality, etc that we so frequently see cited in soft publications like nejm. it's not aimed at providing coq au vin with truffles to everyone. people can and do pay for the extras. there's no intent to stop them. and they might live longer and healthier due to the extra money they put out but it's very debatable. more likely they'll wait less for procedures and tests.

 

what we have now is a system in which a few people get coq au vin, many people get chicken wings and way too many get table scraps on occasion. they don't generally do well health wise...and we end up ranking 37th in the world in life expectancy. that's what single payer advocates aim to fix. it's a obviously a lower priority to others.

Oh Jesus Christ on a crutch! For anybody that wants to know why I call most liberals phony? The above is your answer.

 

After decades of enduring our liberals, every European/Canadian douchebag I've met in my travels, or had the bad luck to sit next to at a Sabres game, or been trapped in bathroom by, swearing up and down that the American Health care system is inferior, flat out, to the superior socialist systems they have, and that they solve all problems for all people, and it's merely a matter of us following your collective embrace of "more intelligent solutions"...

 

...now you, and they, tell us "Well, I never actually said this was the best. If you want the good stuff, that costs more."? Coke dealers are more sincere than you are.

 

Explain to me, exactly, how your post above differs in any way from that of the health insurance company executives you hate so much, when they are asked why they won't cover a procedure...after spending millions of $ on "look at how much we care, and how much we do for you" ad campaigns.

 

Phony.

 

So now, when it's been clearly demonstrated to you that places where SINGLE PAYER health care has been the "intelligent choice" for years...are hiring people to create and manage private health insurance, your answer is "well, I never said single payer was the sole solution". YES YOU DID. YOU'VE BEEN SAYING THAT SINCE YOU GOT HERE, CLOWN!

 

Phony. Hilariously Phony.

 

Pounce, in terms of building a better mouse trap and ironing out all of the inefficiencies to create a logical, streamlined, business efficient process; then implementing that fix.

Hmm.

 

I may decide to PM you some time. I may not. I have a mouse trap. But, it's actually your mousetrap, if you want it to be. It catches bad business process.

[Doc]

 

 

Yeay statistics. Do the life expectancy statistics have a predictive value on quality and availability of healthcare or do they speak more on lifestyle choices?

No, they're strictly just stats. And we all know how great it is to base things strictly off of stats.

[birdog1960]

Yeay statistics. Do the life expectancy statistics have a predictive value on quality and availability of healthcare or do they speak more on lifestyle choices?

they are related to many variables. here's a few: access to health care, minimum wage below living wage, drug abuse, alcoholism, hopelessness, smoking, poor diet. and these in turn our multifactorial. but it appears our system in general, results in an inordinately large number of people affected, a comparitiely large underclass. socialized medicine certainly won't cure all the problems but it will help.

[Joe Miner]

they are related to many variables. here's a few: access to health care, minimum wage below living wage, drug abuse, alcoholism, hopelessness, smoking, poor diet. and these in turn our multifactorial. but it appears our system in general, results in an inordinately large number of people affected, a comparitiely large underclass. socialized medicine certainly won't cure all the problems but it will help.

 

So giving people access to medical care will help them not make poor life choices, and also fix societal inequalities?

 

Can it also fix global warming?

 

Peace in the Middle East?

 

Your stupidity?

[birdog1960]

Oh Jesus Christ on a crutch! For anybody that wants to know why I call most liberals phony? The above is your answer.

 

After decades of enduring our liberals, every European/Canadian douchebag I've met in my travels, or had the bad luck to sit next to at a Sabres game, or been trapped in bathroom by, swearing up and down that the American Health care system is inferior, flat out, to the superior socialist systems they have, and that they solve all problems for all people, and it's merely a matter of us following your collective embrace of "more intelligent solutions"...

 

...now you, and they, tell us "Well, I never actually said this was the best. If you want the good stuff, that costs more."? Coke dealers are more sincere than you are.

 

Explain to me, exactly, how your post above differs in any way from that of the health insurance company executives you hate so much, when they are asked why they won't cover a procedure...after spending millions of $ on "look at how much we care, and how much we do for you" ad campaigns.

 

Phony.

 

So now, when it's been clearly demonstrated to you that places where SINGLE PAYER health care has been the "intelligent choice" for years...are hiring people to create and manage private health insurance, your answer is "well, I never said single payer was the sole solution". YES YOU DID. YOU'VE BEEN SAYING THAT SINCE YOU GOT HERE, CLOWN!

 

Phony. Hilariously Phony.

 

 

Hmm.

 

I may decide to PM you some time. I may not. I have a mouse trap. But, it's actually your mousetrap, if you want it to be. It catches bad business process.

nothiung phony about it. i've never heard a proponent of single payer say that those with excellent insurance currently will do better. it's about insuring the currenty uninsured. wanna improve life expectancy and infant mortality? rhetorical question, i suspect here i'd get some negative replies). easiest way is to improve care to folks that have littler or no care currently. attempting to improve care for thems that got isn't likely to change the numbers much. and guess what we've been doing up until the advent of the ACA?

[GG]

they are related to many variables. here's a few: access to health care, minimum wage below living wage, drug abuse, alcoholism, hopelessness, smoking, poor diet. and these in turn our multifactorial. but it appears our system in general, results in an inordinately large number of people affected, a comparitiely large underclass. socialized medicine certainly won't cure all the problems but it will help.

 

How is socialized medicine going to help the bolded, which are far bigger contributors to deaths?

[Joe Miner]

wanna improve life expectancy and infant mortality?

 

Not at this point. Unemployment's already high enough.