Progressives tout California Health care "success"

[B-Large]

Yeah. How to get TYTT & his buddy OC off the rag?

 

perhaps one of those high paid MD's can make a referral to a good OB/Gyn?

[B-Large]

I see...so you're morally content to hold those who've already built their lives around helping and healing the sick and injured hostage because "they've got no where else to go"; and at the same time refuse to acnowledge the fundamental laws of economics? Did the President issue an executive order repealing them?

 

Your argument is morally repulsive as well as ignorant.

 

They said they have no other options, not me. I have spoken to big time Lawyers in Denver here as well, who remark the same... they have been doing this so long, what else would they do... that is their set of golden handcuffs, set upon themselves, not by me.

 

I make good money in Adminstration, but I started of making crap.... but I am leaving it soon to make peanuts again because I don't need the money or prestige for happiness... we're all different. The point being Healthcare Reform does not change the attractiveness of a career on Medicine for some kids who love science, research, medicine but don't want to make crumby money just being a lab assitant for Biology major.

 

I am also of the belief that Healthcare doesn't behave the same as other market industries, so spare me the "economic priciples repeal" routine... if Healthcare we're a free market, truly, insurance would only cover solid actuarial risks, other people would be turned away if they could not pay, and people would die at a much higher rate... instead, because we don't have the conscience for that, we have this complex game of cost shifting, skewed pharaceutical, device and supply markets, inability to define true costs for consumers because they never have to see them, and overall without influence or money you are victim to this convoluted mess.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

It's amazing that you're able to cram so much stupid into such a small mind.

 

Seriously, what are you in grade three with the canned insults? I guess I'll play.

 

I would ask you how old you are but I know you can't count that high.

 

Here is 20 cents. Call your friends to help you out, and bring back change.

 

 

:-)

Edited July 30, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[GG]

They said they have no other options, not me. I have spoken to big time Lawyers in Denver here as well, who remark the same... they have been doing this so long, what else would they do... that is their set of golden handcuffs, set upon themselves, not by me.

 

I make good money in Adminstration, but I started of making crap.... but I am leaving it soon to make peanuts again because I don't need the money or prestige for happiness... we're all different. The point being Healthcare Reform does not change the attractiveness of a career on Medicine for some kids who love science, research, medicine but don't want to make crumby money just being a lab assitant for Biology major.

 

I am also of the belief that Healthcare doesn't behave the same as other market industries, so spare me the "economic priciples repeal" routine... if Healthcare we're a free market, truly, insurance would only cover solid actuarial risks, other people would be turned away if they could not pay, and people would die at a much higher rate... instead, because we don't have the conscience for that, we have this complex game of cost shifting, skewed pharaceutical, device and supply markets, inability to define true costs for consumers because they never have to see them, and overall without influence or money you are victim to this convoluted mess.

 

And that has been working fine to provide healthcare to a large majority of people who need it. And that is happening because there's still competition among doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, etc. Once ACA succeeds in its goal to eviscerate competition and enforce hard controls, then the game changes. While the current doctors are stuck, they will have enough of a landing glide path to slow ride out in the sunset. But in the meantime, you will hurt the exact people you want to help, because the good doctors will slowly stop taking insurance, and will only deal with patients who can afford the service. The rest of the multitudes will slowly be pushed into high volume health clinics with inferior talent running it. Faced with the declining economic prospects, fewer talented kids will elect to pay through the nose for 8 years of medical education and you will face a severe doctor program and better hope that HB1 visa program is large enough to continue import doctors from India.

 

But at least you solved the insurance problem, that wasn't a problem in the first place.

[B-Large]

And that has been working fine to provide healthcare to a large majority of people who need it. And that is happening because there's still competition among doctors, hospitals, insurance companies, etc. Once ACA succeeds in its goal to eviscerate competition and enforce hard controls, then the game changes. While the current doctors are stuck, they will have enough of a landing glide path to slow ride out in the sunset. But in the meantime, you will hurt the exact people you want to help, because the good doctors will slowly stop taking insurance, and will only deal with patients who can afford the service. The rest of the multitudes will slowly be pushed into high volume health clinics with inferior talent running it. Faced with the declining economic prospects, fewer talented kids will elect to pay through the nose for 8 years of medical education and you will face a severe doctor program and better hope that HB1 visa program is large enough to continue import doctors from India.

 

But at least you solved the insurance problem, that wasn't a problem in the first place.

 

The coverage problem is a huge, core issue. We write of 150M each year for care that goes unreimbursed because we take everybody who walks in... that doesn't go poof into the air of imaginary finance land, that goes to your insurance company next year to pay for it.. that is a big problem, just mutilple that amount by other 700+ bed facilities around the country by that amount and it get to the mutliple billions extremely fast.

 

We compete now more than every with Private Health Systems, in fact, we have acquired two medical systems in the last 3 years as the consolidation begins... what you wil begin to see if more and more providers leaving a private practice to work at a University Hospital, Large Private Hospital System, or a Self Contained System like Kaiser... but the salaries of MD's are nto all of the sudden going to plummet, especially with more money in the system to pay for services... that doesn't make sense. Yes, you will have concierge practice pop up more, but that had been going on for 10 years if not longer as well... and if MD's think making another 100K in a conceirge practice, wait till you have to be on call 24/7, answer calls on weekend and meet the expectations of wealthy people paying you 10K a year of their money for your ass.... a whole different headache.

 

This is all hype and conjecture right now. The restricted amount of MD's turned out keeps their demand and compensation high, I don't see that changing. Primary Care will be a sore spot, but again, that is nothing new, ask any Internist. Again, in what profession at 30 are you almost guaranteed to make 15-20K a month, and by mid 30's for some who specialize make 30K/ month plus??? Even my lawyer friends aren't pulling that kind of money, nor my buddies who crunch numbers... even my friends on Financial Services near 40 are just starting to pull down decent bucks...

Edited July 30, 2013 by B-Large

[TakeYouToTasker]

I can't wait to tell you that I told you so. I'll still have access to the best medicine in the world, simply because I can afford to pay the costs. You won't however, and neither will your father whom, because of this fool policy you support, will wind up spending his sunset years soaking up the medical hackery of Sanjay the Butcher. And you know what? He'll deserve it.

[Alaska Darin]

We'll see if your hysteria pans out.

Reality isn't hysteria.

[B-Large]

I can't wait to tell you that I told you so. I'll still have access to the best medicine in the world, simply because I can afford to pay the costs. You won't however, and neither will your father whom, because of this fool policy you support, will wind up spending his sunset years soaking up the medical hackery of Sanjay the Butcher. And you know what? He'll deserve it.

 

Good for you, you have said you have worked you ass off and earned a fortune, you will have resources to do what you wish, cheers to success..

 

and since you said so, I guess the rest of us will just have to make Dr. Sanjay our MD and hope for the best....

[DC Tom]

Good for you, you have said you have worked you ass off and earned a fortune, you will have resources to do what you wish, cheers to success..

 

Now hand it over, since you didn't build that (somebody else made it happen). It's discriminatory, not letting others reap the benefit of your success.

[B-Large]

Now hand it over, since you didn't build that (somebody else made it happen). It's discriminatory, not letting others reap the benefit of your success.

 

with his fortune, he doesn't hand that over to redistributors... he has a team of accounts and lawyers to use the best loopholes....

 

Now hand it over, since you didn't build that (somebody else made it happen). It's discriminatory, not letting others reap the benefit of your success.

 

I am going to inherit a bunch of money, I didn't build it, and I sure as heck don't want to hand it over

[IDBillzFan]

And then there's this:

 

 

The Obama administration's decision to delay the employer mandate in its signature healthcare law will cost the government about $12 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

 

The CBO on Tuesday released its first official estimate of the delay in the employer mandate, which requires large businesses to offer health insurance coverage to their full-time workers or pay a penalty.

 

The one-year delay increased the cost of the law's coverage provisions by $12 billion over the next 10 years, the CBO said.

 

In fairness, $12 billion is basically an Obama vacation, so maybe it's just chump change to them.

[B-Man]

 

Look out below! Work more, get less in Obamacare 'cliff'

 

By: Dan Mangan

 

Be careful you don't fall off the Obamacare "cliff" when the boss asks you to put in some overtime.

 

Working more could ultimately mean thousands of dollars less for you under a quirk in the new health-care law going into effect this fall. This could prompt some people to cut back on their hours to avoid losing money.

 

"Working more can actually leave you worse off," the price-comparison site ValuePenguin.com notes in a new analysis.

 

"It's sort of an absurd scenario," said Jonathan Wu, ValuePenguin.com's co-founder. "It's something for people to be aware of."

 

In that scenario, an individual or family whose annual income surpasses maximums set by the federal government—if only by $1—will totally lose subsidies available to buy health insurance under the Affordable Care Act.

 

The loss of those subsidies in some cases will mean that people potentially would have been better off financially if they had worked less during the year, Wu said. And they then would have to work significantly more to make up for the lost subsidy.

 

"I think they'd be surprised to see how drastic it is," said Wu. "I'd be kind of shocked to see if I make $100 less (in total income each year), I get all these benefits, but if I make $100 more, I get nothing."

 

"You basically don't want to fall in that hole," said Wu, adding that he believed contractors and others with more control over their incomes would be apt to adjust their hours worked to avoid the subsidy cliff.

 

He also said that because of lower insurance premiums often offered younger people, the effect will more likely be seen by older people. But "you will see it across all age groups" in the seven states including New York and Vermont where insurance premiums are either barred from being affected by age, or restricted from being dramatically affected, he said.

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100921864

[birdog1960]

been fun to read the comments over the last few days from the sidelines. but i'll jump back in the game: believe it or not some folks go into medicine for the intellectual challenge, the desire to help people, a sense of purpose, a sense of accomplishment, a sense of fulfillment...intangibles. i taught a uva 3rd year med student (one among many) internal medicine a few years ago. he had a phd in astrophysics and was working for nasa prior to med school. probably the best student i ever had and he said med school was the most difficult test he'd been put through...then he finished a residency at a top training program in neurosurgery ( a much bigger challenge). he didn't do it for the money,, although i'm sure that promise helped push him through the many rough times and up all nights but this wasn't his primary motivation. favorite hobby was fly fishing which doesn't take much money but tales time (the opposite of what you get in neurosurg). on the other hand, i've had students contemplating residencies between anesthesia or pathology or derm or radiology..which have nothing in common except high pay. guess which students will likely make better doctors? i know who i'd pick to be my doctor.

 

 

and docs in socialized systems are still in the top few percent of compensation generally. i don't anticipate a big problem. the folks choosing between finance, law or medicine may choose otherwise. those that really are drawn to medicine, even the unfulfilled astrophysicists, will likely stay the course. and there will be enough.

Edited July 31, 2013 by birdog1960

[TakeYouToTasker]

with his fortune, he doesn't hand that over to redistributors... he has a team of accounts and lawyers to use the best loopholes....

 

 

I am going to inherit a bunch of money, I didn't build it, and I sure as heck don't want to hand it over

I wish it was a fortune, it's not. Not nearly. I'm almost 37, and I'm less than 1/10 of the way done, and there's a chance I'll reset that goal again, given change.

 

That said, your father's terrible planning has colored your thinking. Your goal should be to make sure you do well enough to never put yourself in his position, not to steal from me, and ruin the medical care quality of the nation, because it makes your feel better and you don't have the balls to watch people suffer the concequences of their own decisions.

 

been fun to read over the last few days comments from the sidelines. but i'll jump back in the game: believe it or not some folks go into medicine for the intellectual challenge, the desire to help people, a sense of purpose, a sense of accomplishment, a sense of fulfillment...intangibles. i taught a uva 3rd year med student (one among many) internal medicine a few years ago. he had a phd in astrophysics and was working for nasa prior to med school. probably the best student i ever had and he said med school was the most difficult test he'd been put through...then he finished a residency at a top training program in neurosurgery ( a much bigger challenge). he didn't do it for the money,, although i'm sure that promise helped push him through the many rough times and up all nights but this wasn't his primary motivation. favorite hobby was fly fishing which doesn't take much money but tales time (the opposite of what you get in neurosurg). on the other hand, i've had students contemplating residencies between anesthesia or pathology or derm or radiology..which have nothing in common except high pay. guess which students will likely make better doctors? i know who i'd pick to be my doctor.

 

 

and docs in socialized systems are still in the top few percent of compensation generally. i don't anticipate a big problem. the folks choosing between finance, law or medicine may choose otherwise. those that really are drawn to medicine, even the unfulfilled astrophysicists, will likely stay the course. and there will be enough.

Way to compare apples to oranges. Also, fantastic usage of individual ancedotes to make a non-point.

[DC Tom]

been fun to read over the last few days comments from the sidelines. but i'll jump back in the game: believe it or not some folks go into medicine for the intellectual challenge, the desire to help people, a sense of purpose, a sense of accomplishment, a sense of fulfillment...intangibles. i taught a uva 3rd year med student (one among many) internal medicine a few years ago. he had a phd in astrophysics and was working for nasa prior to med school. probably the best student i ever had and he said med school was the most difficult test he'd been put through...then he finished a residency at a top training program in neurosurgery ( a much bigger challenge). he didn't do it for the money,, although i'm sure that promise helped push him through the many rough times and up all nights but this wasn't his primary motivation. favorite hobby was fly fishing which doesn't take much money but tales time (the opposite of what you get in neurosurg). on the other hand, i've had students contemplating residencies between anesthesia or pathology or derm or radiology..which have nothing in common except high pay. guess which students will likely make better doctors? i know who i'd pick to be my doctor.

 

 

and docs in socialized systems are still in the top few percent of compensation generally. i don't anticipate a big problem. the folks choosing between finance, law or medicine may choose otherwise. those that really are drawn to medicine, even the unfulfilled astrophysicists, will likely stay the course. and there will be enough.

 

I'm sure that had ****-all to do with the fact that there's about 300 jobs for astrophysicists in the country. Of course it was pure intellectual idealism.

[birdog1960]

I'm sure that had ****-all to do with the fact that there's about 300 jobs for astrophysicists in the country. Of course it was pure intellectual idealism.

he had a very good place with nasa. your cynicism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(contemporary) is showing again. Edited July 31, 2013 by birdog1960

[TakeYouToTasker]

he had a very good place with nasa. your cynicism is showing again.

Ah, OK. That explains it. He clearly has a hard-on for dimissing actual concerns and instead opts for a government prescribed guideline. This move to medicine should suit him.

[DC Tom]

he had a very good place with nasa. your cynicism is showing again.

 

You don't actually know what an astrophysicist does at NASA, do you? Or what the job prospects are?

 

Your polyannaish naivety is showing again.

[Doc]

He likely also got a free ride at UVA, which takes some of the sting out of it. Maybe rich parents as well.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Doc

[B-Man]

Sauce for the Goose? Or Leverage for Delay?

 

The New York Times reports this morning on increasing levels of panic among Capitol Hill staffers as their hour of Obamacare coverage –or chaos– approaches. Long used to the comfortable coverage of the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program, the Obamacare nightmare law pushed Hill folks into the state exchanges, without subsidy or safety-net if those exchanges are, as expected, disasters of the first order.

 

The quick summary from the Times:

 

Under a wrinkle that dates back to enactment of the law, members of Congress and thousands of their aides are required to get their coverage through new state-based markets known as insurance exchanges.

 

But the law does not provide any obvious way for the federal government to continue paying its share of the premiums for the comprehensive coverage.

 

If the government cannot do so, it could mean an additional expense of $5,000 a year for individuals and $11,000 for families under some of the most popular plans.

 

This is real hardship, of course, and many Hill staffers, conservatives as well as lefties, Republicans as well as Democrats are young parents on tight budgets. Their bosses shouldn’t be and aren’t indifferent to the situation they have been forced into, but neither should they simply fix one big problem in a law beset with problems.

 

Delay of all of Obamacare for a year makes abundant sense, as the president has recognized with his unilateral and very legally suspect postponement of parts of the legislative albatross. If the House acted quickly to put a one year delay of the individual mandate together with a patch for Hill staffers allowing them to be part of the Federal Employee Health benefits Plan for 2014 with subsidies equivalent to executive branch employees, great good would be accomplished all the way around, and the rubber match on Obamacare would be fought out in the fall of next year.