Progressives tout California Health care "success"

[Joe Miner]

 

With all due respect, the president not only said that would not happen...he promised it wouldn't.

 

The entire "if you like your plan/doctor, you can keep your plan/doctor," was his opening guarantee to the entire country to assure the people the only things ACA was going to change were a reduction in medical costs and the country's debt.

 

That he was too stupid to realize or care that he was lying is irrelevant. He promised. He lied. And to do anything other than call him out on it is as stark a tell-tale sign of one's political allegiance as claiming Trayvon was murdered because he was black is a tell-tale sign that someone didn't pay attention to the trial.

 

In fact I think many here pointed out the stupidity of his guarantee when he made it.

[Tiberius]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

And in NY too

[birdog1960]

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

 

And in NY too

just saw this article as well and was going to link it. this is exactly how it's supposed to work and ultimately, likely will. i'm guessing there will be a few more new yorkers supporting the bill after these numbers become real to people buying insurance in new york.

In fact I think many here pointed out the stupidity of his guarantee when he made it.

there's a saying that's been around most of my career: "loyalty is a $20 copay". and it's been mostly true in my experience. most people will switch docs if a visit is going to cost $20 more, sometimes even $10 more. that's a choice, not a demand. similarly, they can buy insurance on the exchanges that includes their current physician.. it may not be the least expensive but it's their choice.

[Magox]

just saw this article as well and was going to link it. this is exactly how it's supposed to work and ultimately, likely will. i'm guessing there will be a few more new yorkers supporting the bill after these numbers become real to people buying insurance in new york.

 

I suppose you didn't know why they will most likely see a rate decrease. It only will make rates go lower in NY, well..... Because there really wasn't anywhere else it could go, based on existing laws. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/18/the-new-york-times-tries-and-fails-to-save-obamacare-from-health-insurance-rate-shock/

 

http://www.nytimes.c...wanted=all&_r=0

 

And in NY too

Take a look at the link

[Nanker]

Single Payer is the way to go. It always works out soooo well.

[birdog1960]

Single Payer is the way to go. It always works out soooo well.

shocking...budgetary problems in italy. next you'll be linking to problems in spain, portugal or greece.

[Magox]

shocking...budgetary problems in italy. next you'll be linking to problems in spain, portugal or greece.

Is it even conceivable that one of the reasons Italy has budgetary problems is because of their welfare state and pension models?

[DC Tom]

just saw this article as well and was going to link it. this is exactly how it's supposed to work and ultimately, likely will. i'm guessing there will be a few more new yorkers supporting the bill after these numbers become real to people buying insurance in new york.

 

[...]apples-to-apples comparisons are impossible from this year to next because all of the plans are essentially new insurance products.

 

um, not asking to compare sources, i'm asking that you compare relevant data. do you concede that this piece of propaganda making the rounds on the web is based on garbage data comparison?

[birdog1960]

Is it even conceivable that one of the reasons Italy has budgetary problems is because of their welfare state and pension models?

no doubt, along with and factors like corruption and incompetence. but that's a long way from enough evidence on which to condemn the entire idea of single payer.

[DC Tom]

no doubt, along with and factors like corruption and incompetence. but that's a long way from enough evidence on which to condemn the entire idea of single payer.

 

Evil fat-cat bankers.

[birdog1960]

no doubt, along with and factors like corruption and incompetence. but that's a long way from enough evidence on which to condemn the entire idea of single payer.

didn't claim a direct comparison. isaid this is how it's supposed to work and that many new yorkers woulld likely be pleased. i don't see anything presented that refutes those statements.

[OCinBuffalo]

Hobby Lobby Wins Injunction Against HHS Mandate

 

Hobby Lobby, a retail chain run by Evangelical Christians, has been given a preliminary injunction against the preventive-services mandate contained in the Affordable Care Act, Reuters reports.

It's hilarious to think that Obamacare, if we play this out positively(follow on lawsuits-->equal rights under the law, etc.) and then extend it, would be taken down by something called Hobby Lobby.

 

It fits perfectly, if you think about it. Ridiculous law taken down by ridiculous sounding name. Just imagine the 11th grade history handheld hologram thingy(not textbooks) 100 years from now: a single paragraph of the half-page devoted to Obama "a President whose only significance was his skin color", that talks about Obamacare...and Hobby Lobby.

 

Edited July 23, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[3rdnlng]

Dems against Obamacare:

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/07/23/moderate-democrats-are-quitting-on-obamacare/

 

 

"The landmark health-reform law passed in 2010 has never been very popular and always highly partisan, but a new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds that a group of once loyal Democrats has been steadily turning against Obamacare: Democrats who are ideologically moderate or conservative.

Just after the law was passed in 2010, fully 74 percent of moderate and conservative Democrats supported the federal law making changes to the health-care system. But just 46 percent express support in the new poll, down 11 points in the past year. Liberal Democrats, by contrast, have continued to support the law at very high levels – 78 percent in the latest survey. Among the public at large, 42 percent support and 49 percent oppose the law, retreating from an even split at 47 percent apiece last July."

[B-Large]

With all due respect, the president not only said that would not happen...he promised it wouldn't.

 

The entire "if you like your plan/doctor, you can keep your plan/doctor," was his opening guarantee to the entire country to assure the people the only things ACA was going to change were a reduction in medical costs and the country's debt.

 

That he was too stupid to realize or care that he was lying is irrelevant. He promised. He lied. And to do anything other than call him out on it is as stark a tell-tale sign of one's political allegiance as claiming Trayvon was murdered because he was black is a tell-tale sign that someone didn't pay attention to the trial.

 

People can always keep their doctor no matter what Group or Individual Plan they have, its called paying in cash. People have that option, in fact more people are going to concierge programs because their plans network of providers does change. New Employees here at my hospital have to change their primary care provider and specialist provider if they want the very cost effective self insured group plan... that isn't the ACA dictatig that, that is the plan.

 

You can always keep your health plan, convince your HR dept to never change the optiona at open enrollment (Our TPA changes every year from Cign to BC/BS and back), or prior to ACA, keep paying your premiums on your private individual plan and pray your don't even need to use it for something big and go back and find a reason to cut you off.

 

the ACA did not change your MD, or change your plan, the health insurance industry does that. Tecnically, the President was not lying, these things changed before the ACA and will continue to change after.

[TakeYouToTasker]

People can always keep their doctor no matter what Group or Individual Plan they have, its called paying in cash. People have that option, in fact more people are going to concierge programs because their plans network of providers does change. New Employees here at my hospital have to change their primary care provider and specialist provider if they want the very cost effective self insured group plan... that isn't the ACA dictatig that, that is the plan.

 

You can always keep your health plan, convince your HR dept to never change the optiona at open enrollment (Our TPA changes every year from Cign to BC/BS and back), or prior to ACA, keep paying your premiums on your private individual plan and pray your don't even need to use it for something big and go back and find a reason to cut you off.

 

the ACA did not change your MD, or change your plan, the health insurance industry does that. Tecnically, the President was not lying, these things changed before the ACA and will continue to change after.

Your entire post is nothing but an articulated blatant disregard for the fundamental laws of economics and how human beings react to incentivization.

[B-Large]

Your entire post is nothing but an articulated blatant disregard for the fundamental laws of economics and how human beings react to incentivization.

 

thank you for the insight. Aside from the generalization in your post, any interest in commenting on my posts content?

[TakeYouToTasker]

thank you for the insight. Aside from the generalization in your post, any interest in commenting on my posts content?

 

People will not "be able to keep their doctor if they choose". They will be able to keep their doctor if their doctor a) decides to continue practicing in a compensation environment which is much less attractive, b) if their doctor allows for self-insurance payment, c) if they can afford to self-insure in addition to having to pay premiums which in many cases are doubling, d) their doctor is willing to work outside of ridgid ACO bonus payment guidelines.

 

People will not be able to "convince their employeer to keep their current plan", as every major health plan offered today by every major employer becomes a Cadillac plan under the projected premium increases, as the metric doesn't scale. In response to this virtually every major provider and every HR department in the country has made major changes to their offerings and coverages beginning in 2014. "The health insurance you currently have" has been cost-legislated out of the market. I've seen this happen from the inside out. If you don't belive me, I'm more than happy to tell you I told you so.

 

The Health Insurance industry, like very other industry, must opperate within the legislative environment in lives in. You can't blame the 7' tall man for hunching over when you put him in a room with 5' ceilings.

Edited July 24, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker

[IDBillzFan]

People can always keep their doctor no matter what Group or Individual Plan they have, its called paying in cash.

 

And this single statement is why every day you wake up, fewer and fewer people trust Barack Obama with running the country like they trust Charlie Sheen to keep an eye on their eight ball.

 

For years I have stated Barack Obama is like that useless employee everyone works with who makes people stand around asking "How in the hell does that lazyass stay employed here?"

 

Obama can pin his successes, and his ultimate failures, to the simple fact that he perfectly walks the gentle line between imply and infer, so when someone argues "Hey, You said 'this' would happen," he and his cronies can respond, "Well, is that what you heard or what you wanted to hear?" Or more like your comment above, which is a "Well, technically, what I said was true. That my truth and the context in which we delivered the truth have no business being together is just an accident."

 

Shame on you for even thinking this way, let alone posting it somewhere. I genuinely thought you were smarter than that.

[B-Large]

And this single statement is why every day you wake up, fewer and fewer people trust Barack Obama with running the country like they trust Charlie Sheen to keep an eye on their eight ball.

 

For years I have stated Barack Obama is like that useless employee everyone works with who makes people stand around asking "How in the hell does that lazyass stay employed here?"

 

Obama can pin his successes, and his ultimate failures, to the simple fact that he perfectly walks the gentle line between imply and infer, so when someone argues "Hey, You said 'this' would happen," he and his cronies can respond, "Well, is that what you heard or what you wanted to hear?" Or more like your comment above, which is a "Well, technically, what I said was true. That my truth and the context in which we delivered the truth have no business being together is just an accident."

 

Shame on you for even thinking this way, let alone posting it somewhere. I genuinely thought you were smarter than that.

 

It was the reality prior to Obama's plan or presidency- you made this a referredum on Obama for partisan puposes, I didn't. The truth is people with means pay cash for consistency and convenience when they see the need (concierge practices blew up way before the senetor from Illinois was even heard of), the group in the middle play whim to their insurance carrier, and the poor get what we determine we are willing to provide.

 

LA, you're smart guy and a good poster, but you really want to espouse the "upfront, honest and trasparent" test to a poltican, and I mean any politician? They skirt the line between between infer and imply for a vocation...

 

the reality here is the ACA is not really that much different that what was in place- its an expansion of private insurance companys marketplace, with rules placed on both the buyer and insurer... to which in the end is mutally beneficial. As the end of the day I would prefer this never come pass, that insurers offered insurance to all customers who wanted to buy it, deaedbeats got turned away and that Americans got down with the fact that healthcare us expensive and not going Walmart anytime soon... so when the committee is done, this is what we get.

[jjamie12]

...Tecnically, the President was not lying, these things changed before the ACA and will continue to change after.

That is not what the President meant or inferred. Nor was that how the 'the people' understood it with respect to passage of the ACA. In fact, one of the only ways this thing was passed was under the guise of "don't worry, nothing is going to change for those of you who currently have insurance". That was always clearly wrong. At best, the President doesn't/didn't understand how the market would react to this massive bill.