Nanker Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 The Legursky signing adds some intrigue to this discussion... Naw, don't cha know? He singlehanded my lost the SB for Pittsburgh. If you didn't - stay tuned. We'll soon hear all about it here.
thewildrabbit Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 With regards to the running game last season, I thought our OL opened up some great holes for Cj. The majority of those holes were in the spread (or with 3-4 WRs. Passing formations.). Like others, and you have said, our short yardage blocking was atrocious. When we has to run it, we couldn't. To me....that falls on the OL. Regarding the pass blocking, while I don't think we were amazing, I thought we we good. Fritz led the nfl in getting rid of the ball quickly. That was the focus of our offense. To get rid of the ball quickly. It's hard to gauge how good an OL is, statistically speaking, in an offense predicated on such quick passing. To your second comment....ok, I don't "know" that this years Oline isn't as good as last years. Maybe the coaching staff can get more out of our guys than last year, but I thought D'alesandris (sp?) did a great job. Losing Levitre and Reindeer degrades the talent level we have. BIG time. If colin brown or young were better than either of them, they would have played. It's safe to say, talent wise, our OL is worse. We lost 2 bad WRs and replaced them with 3 more talented WRs. We lost one really good LG and our best backup interior lineman and replaced him with.....no one. It's obvious our coaching staff isn't happy with them, as we have 2 guys visiting this week. Can our OL be better than last year? If and only if, we add someone to play LG. can you imagine how great our line will be when Urbik or a Wood goes out (or both)? Colin brown, Sam young and my cousin Larry playing Lg/C/RG. Injuries WILL hit. If we don't add more talent ASAP, those injuries will cripple us. Good post, I agree with a lot of what you say. As to the injuries, don't think of the play of the O line in that Miami game in week 10 in 2011 after Wood went down in week 9, as I try not to think of it. Anyway, lets hope this new HC has an answer to the injuries. Gailey thought adding more trainers would help, not sure if it did because Wood still ended up on IR again. I think we should keep this thread going until someone convinces someone to change their mind about something. Adding to the fun of this task will be the fact that no one has anything concrete to base their arguments off of, since all that has occurred so far are OTAs. Like I stated in another post in this thread, my argument concerning the O line has nothing to do with OTA's, and is based entirely on last seasons performance. Losing the O linemen who graded as the best of the bunch, and then not replacing him with an equal talent should hurt the team. Also, as I've pointed out he was the only player to play in all 16 games the last four years, which helped gave that line much needed continuity. I'm not saying the sky is falling or we are doomed, I was just stating some of my concerns similar to what NewEra posted above. To add to what he posted. If Fitz was one of the better QB's at getting the ball out very quickly to the open receiver and Gailey built his offense predicated on a short / quick passing scheme. Safe to say that most of the throws where based on 3 step drop backs, and that his average release time was around 2.5 seconds. So stating that, the O line basically had to pass block for 3 seconds or less the majority of the time. So now what? We have four new QB's learning a new scheme, two rookies, and we still don't know what that scheme is just yet. Do we really know if this new O line will be able to pass block for Tom Brady like 5 step drop backs, or the dreaded 7 step drop backs for the deeper passing plays. Those passing plays usually take between 3-5 seconds or longer to develop. So, if nothing else it should be very intriguing as to how new HC Doug Marrone will handle the challenges for the 2013 season. More food for thought.... http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/15/sports/la-sp-farmer-nfl-quarterbacks-20110816
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 I'm feeling a little better now. At least we have a possible Levitre replacement that has 17 starts to his credit. I'm betting he starts. He says he thinks he's a better Center than Guard. I wonder if this staff might consider moving Woods to LG and starting Legursky at Center. I still think there may be a little fall off in performance for the O-line but Legursky, an average player or he wouldn't have been released by Pittsburg, is still better that Brown, Young, Scott and company.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I'm feeling a little better now. At least we have a possible Levitre replacement that has 17 starts to his credit. I'm betting he starts. He says he thinks he's a better Center than Guard. I wonder if this staff might consider moving Woods to LG and starting Legursky at Center. I still think there may be a little fall off in performance for the O-line but Legursky, an average player or he wouldn't have been released by Pittsburg, is still better that Brown, Young, Scott and company. If you recall his first two years in the league, you'll remember that Wood was a mediocre guard but an excellent center. When Hangartner got injured, Wood got his first career start at center and dominated the Browns outstanding nose tackle, Ahtyba Rubin. It was clear then that Wood's combination of strength and short-area quickness was a better fit at center where he's 2-3 feet closer to the opponent and the line of scrimmage than are the guards.
Nitro Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Good signing. As the line solidifies with reps and the back ups shake out, they can be good, not great but good and that is all you need to succeed in the NFL. Several teams have made it to the Super Bowl with good lines. Hope this group plays well enough to get them into the playoffs.
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 If you recall his first two years in the league, you'll remember that Wood was a mediocre guard but an excellent center. When Hangartner got injured, Wood got his first career start at center and dominated the Browns outstanding nose tackle, Ahtyba Rubin. It was clear then that Wood's combination of strength and short-area quickness was a better fit at center where he's 2-3 feet closer to the opponent and the line of scrimmage than are the guards. Sorry San Jose, I don't recall that at all. What I do recall is that Woods and Levitre were drafted in the same year and in that year Levitre started at LG and Woods at Center. I only brought up the move of Woods to LG because he had good movement skills before those surgeries and a move to LG might change his luck regarding injuries.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Sorry San Jose, I don't recall that at all. What I do recall is that Woods and Levitre were drafted in the same year and in that year Levitre started at LG and Woods at Center. I only brought up the move of Woods to LG because he had good movement skills before those surgeries and a move to LG might change his luck regarding injuries. Yeah Wood started his career at guard in 2009 and didn't become a full time center until 2011. However he made that one start at center against Cleveland late in the 2010 season as I recall.
3rdand12 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Just signed a guard/center from Pittsburgh. Still concerned.
Fan in San Diego Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 EJ Manuel has a very fast release, faster than Fitz's release, combine that with the fast paced offense with the ball coming out quick, we should be in OK shape for the passing game. Can we run the ball on 3rd and 1 and get the first down without using the wildcat? Yet to be seen. I hope Marrone drops the wild cat by the way.
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 Yeah Wood started his career at guard in 2009 and didn't become a full time center until 2011. However he made that one start at center against Cleveland late in the 2010 season as I recall. Funny I don't recall that but some say my ever increasing passion for Bills' football may be an early sign of dimentia.
eball Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 EJ Manuel has a very fast release, faster than Fitz's release, combine that with the fast paced offense with the ball coming out quick, we should be in OK shape for the passing game. Can we run the ball on 3rd and 1 and get the first down without using the wildcat? Yet to be seen. I hope Marrone drops the wild cat by the way. If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly he will. The wildcat is for teams that don't have a true "star" at QB. If the Bills believe Manuel is the guy, you don't ever take him off the field. Plus, his athleticism brings the QB sneak/draw/read action into play anyway.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 I hope Marrone drops the wild cat by the way. The Wildcat has been rendered obsolete by the Read Option… a Wildcat played by an actual quarterback who can actually throw the football. Quite an improvement over the original concept and one the Bills will probably use sparingly but occasionally.
thewildrabbit Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) EJ Manuel has a very fast release, faster than Fitz's release, combine that with the fast paced offense with the ball coming out quick, we should be in OK shape for the passing game. Can we run the ball on 3rd and 1 and get the first down without using the wildcat? Yet to be seen. I hope Marrone drops the wild cat by the way. Big difference between a quick release and finding the open receiver and getting him the ball. Trent Edwards had a much quicker actual release then Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitz tho, had the ability to find the open receiver and get him the ball much quicker then Edwards, generally in 2.5 to 3 seconds or under. Edwards was always dumping the ball off to the RB's vs Fitz who would try and force the ball into tight windows, kinda why everyone loved Fitz at first. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al1p_xuPKpM Anyway, Trent Edwards, drafted by Dick Jauron, the man who went on to force a WCO trained QB into his lame Mike Martz type of offense in Buffalo... run by QB coaches who had no NFL prior coordinator experience...and yet they went 7-9 Edited June 6, 2013 by FeartheLosing
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 The team just went through 10 days of OTAs, had a weekend to digest what they saw, and signed Legurski. Buffalo Rumblings is speculating that he will be the prime candidate to start at LG. Apparently the Bills staff had some concerns about the O-line. So, those of you who argued that last years stats show that this year's line will be good, without Levitre because just about anyone can play guard, have been squished by yesterday's event IMO.
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 The team just went through 10 days of OTAs, had a weekend to digest what they saw, and signed Legurski. Buffalo Rumblings is speculating that he will be the prime candidate to start at LG. Apparently the Bills staff had some concerns about the O-line. So, those of you who argued that last years stats show that this year's line will be good, without Levitre because just about anyone can play guard, have been squished by yesterday's event IMO. Thankfully, I don't see anyone that said that--that would be a stupid statement. I did, however, see people (including myself) defend the performance of last year's OL against the inaccurate assessment that they weren't good, while simultaneously expressing confidence in this staff's ability to replace Levitre one way or another.
Nanker Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 I missed the part about the kool-aid drinkers believing the line was set and the FO would be jackazz stoopid to add talent wherever they could. Funny how signings pick up again post June 1st.
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 Thankfully, I don't see anyone that said that--that would be a stupid statement. I did, however, see people (including myself) defend the performance of last year's OL against the inaccurate assessment that they weren't good, while simultaneously expressing confidence in this staff's ability to replace Levitre one way or another. Many folks expressed opinions that just about anyone can play guard going back to pre-draft discussions about selecting a guard in the first round. It was the "Pick a QB first. A guard can be found in mid to late rounds" crowd. I have no problem with last years O-line stats considering C.J's great talent and Fitz's short throwing game as factors that may have made the O-line appear better than it was. I also argue that you cannot use last year's stats to characterize how this year's O-line might perform simply because it's not the same O-line. I also remain concerned about Glenn's OTA performances. But I like the addition of Legursky even though he seems to be nothing more than an average NFL guard with starting potential. In other words, I don't think much of what Buffalo has as backups and I think something had to be done at that position.
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 Many folks expressed opinions that just about anyone can play guard going back to pre-draft discussions about selecting a guard in the first round. It was the "Pick a QB first. A guard can be found in mid to late rounds" crowd. Do you disagree with that approach? I think, looking around the league, that the bolded is absolutely true. I have no problem with last years O-line stats considering C.J's great talent and Fitz's short throwing game as factors that may have made the O-line appear better than it was. I also argue that you cannot use last year's stats to characterize how this year's O-line might perform simply because it's not the same O-line. It's not exactly the same, just 80% the same when it comes to starters, and 100% the same when it comes to backups (save for adding Legursky). You're right, there's no way to accurately predict this year's OL performance because of variables such as: - We don't know who will start at LG - We don't know what Hackett's offense will look like - We don't know who the QB will be Etc. I also remain concerned about Glenn's OTA performances. Not a big deal for me; I will, however, be concerned if it's happening regularly in the pre-season But I like the addition of Legursky even though he seems to be nothing more than an average NFL guard with starting potential. In other words, I don't think much of what Buffalo has as backups and I think something had to be done at that position. I completely agree here. I was always of the opinion that more interior talent should be brought in; Legursky has experience and was a quality backup when needed in Pittsburgh.
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