O line concerns?

[3rdand12]

In a related matter:

@JamesWalkerESPN: Some #Dolphins fans are asking about the o-line in OTAs. The answer is it's hard to gauge in shorts and little contact.

 

To lather rinse and repeat ..What 26CB said by quote and nailed it again >this OTA means little to read into. It's mostly absorbing right now. Marrone said the next level will have some game planning . Expect some highs and lows for each side of the ball as they get detailed and refined .

Upside is we will have some very aware Bigmen learning against Pettine's shifty defense and be the better for it. better to smoked in practice and learn than in the game

[atlbillsfan1975]

or...they are playing without pads which makes it tougher for offensive lineman to tie up defenders...

 

Don't let that get in the way of a good panic though.

this.

I can remember in HS and collge practicing in no pads. Every Dlineman looks like a stud in those practices. Oline is all about contact, last thing you want to do is hurt yourself or someone on your team while in your underpants!!

[GG]

A bit of a tangent, but remember how calm people were after Tallinder left, because the Calder Trophy winner stayed behind?

[benderbender]

I assume Marrone sees talent in the OL we have now. I hope he's not ignoring a huge gap like this team did for so many years and then wonder why our QB couldn't find an open receive in 1.5 seconds before getting planted in the ground.

[T master]

Joe Buscaglia of WGR55 wrote about the OTAs and about Cordy Glenn's struggles with pass rushers in camp. I know there have been discussions here about the O-line and specifically about losing Levitre but this report about Glenn has me concerned. Many experts have said Glenn is not a LT. He looked pretty good last year. Was that atypical for him? If his performance falls off, who is his replacement? Buffalo appears to have improved it's talent level at WR and on D. Do we now have to be concerned about the O-line? Seems there is always something to worry about with this team.

 

Zebrie Sanders was a LT in college & so was the guy from Clemson that filled in last year while Glenn was dinged up ...

[thewildrabbit]

So after claiming that the Bills OL isn't good solely upon their lack of being able to pound the call in Power situations like Houston, Minnesota, etc, and being proven wrong, you're now going to shift your claim that the stat--which ONLY APPLIES TO 3RD AND 4TH DOWNS OF 1-2YDS AND GOAL LINE PLAYS OF 1-2 YARDS--is skewed by the QB's rushing totals?

 

This really is a joke, isn't it? You're putting me on...you must be.

 

The Bills inability to control the clock with their running game was why they went 6-10?

 

Not the complete lack of an NFL QB?

 

Not the fact that they had 1 NFL caliber WR?

 

Not the horrendous defense?

 

Not the brutal play calling?

 

The OL?

 

Ok man, I'll leave you to your delusion.

You love to nitpick in one area of my posts to suit your argument. However your argument about power success failed, and yet you simply can't fathom it. Carolina #1, NO #2 basically means that "power success" is pure baloney.as neither are dominate running teams at the RB position. The QB was the entire reason the Panthers were #! as he had more rushing yards then their best RB, but you pretend to ignore those facts.

 

 

The Bills failed in their offense because they made a backup QB the focal point of their offense instead of their better players at RB. If you were to actually read what I stated instead of always trying to condemn certain parts you may just get an understanding of what I'm trying to relay.

 

What I stated was the Bills couldn't control the clock or LoS with either the running and passing game. They managed to put up decent stats rushing, passing but couldn't win games.

 

The Bills couldn't make a first down by running on 3rd and short when they needed to, and you even stated ....

 

You are absolutely correct that the team needs to get better in short-yardage blocking situations

 

Time to end this never ending crusade of yours as I really find your attitude very condescending, and at this point I'm done even attempting to reason with you. Welcome to ignore, you're the first!

[eball]

Time to end this never ending crusade of yours as I really find your attitude very condescending, and at this point I'm done even attempting to reason with you. Welcome to ignore, you're the first!

 

People who put people on "ignore" = RJ

[thewildrabbit]

Our interior Oline depth absolutely sucks. If wood goes out again, it'll be a floodgate. As many have said, the main reason our Oline was ranked so high was because of 2 reasons. Gaileys offense that was designed to get rid of the ball quickly allowed our pass protection ranking to be overinflated. Running the ball, Cj spiller did some nasty things out there. If we were returning the same guys as last season, I'd be ok with that. But we lost our best lineman as well as our backup interior lineman. They haven't been filled. Our line is worse than last years. Debate all you want, that Oline wasn't the biggest "priority" this year. It will be one of the biggest property's next season. I promise you that.

Well, this new HC is an ex NFL O linemen, 7 years in the NFL as an assistant coach. 2002-2005 with the NY Jets as the O line coach. OC of the Saints 2006-2008. Plus his years at Syracuse as head coach.

 

You would think he knows enough by now on how to build a proper NFL offense. All we can do is trust he knows what he is doing, even tho as Bills fans we don't share his confidence in the current back up players. His job security will depend on how well that line plays with new QB's Kolb, Jackson and a rookie. We might think its not up to par...but he must or you would think he would ask for better players in the draft / free agency. All we can do now is hope for the best. I also hope he has an answer for all the injuries that plague that line every year.

[thebandit27]

You love to nitpick in one area of my posts to suit your argument. However your argument about power success failed, and yet you simply can't fathom it. Carolina #1, NO #2 basically means that "power success" is pure baloney.as neither are dominate running teams at the RB position. The QB was the entire reason the Panthers were #! as he had more rushing yards then their best RB, but you pretend to ignore those facts.

 

Says the guy who--in the post below, highlights one line of a 6 paragraph post and says "thank you"...cute.

 

Time to end this never ending crusade of yours as I really find your attitude very condescending, and at this point I'm done even attempting to reason with you. Welcome to ignore, you're the first!

 

D'oh...had I seen this I wouldn't have wasted the time...ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

Our interior Oline depth absolutely sucks. If wood goes out again, it'll be a floodgate. As many have said, the main reason our Oline was ranked so high was because of 2 reasons. Gaileys offense that was designed to get rid of the ball quickly allowed our pass protection ranking to be overinflated. Running the ball, Cj spiller did some nasty things out there. If we were returning the same guys as last season, I'd be ok with that. But we lost our best lineman as well as our backup interior lineman. They haven't been filled. Our line is worse than last years. Debate all you want, that Oline wasn't the biggest "priority" this year. It will be one of the biggest property's next season. I promise you that.

 

I understand why people may think this at first, but the numbers simply don't bear this out. Check out the Football Outsiders' analysis of OL Adjusted Line Yards (which indicates blocking efficiency) as well as the Time to Throw stats. You'll find that what you say about C.J. and Fitz is absolutely true; you'll also find that the OL played a huge role in (a) creating holes for Spiller and (b) giving Fitz plenty of time.

 

Our interior Oline depth absolutely sucks. If wood goes out again, it'll be a floodgate. As many have said, the main reason our Oline was ranked so high was because of 2 reasons. Gaileys offense that was designed to get rid of the ball quickly allowed our pass protection ranking to be overinflated. Running the ball, Cj spiller did some nasty things out there. If we were returning the same guys as last season, I'd be ok with that. But we lost our best lineman as well as our backup interior lineman. They haven't been filled. Our line is worse than last years. Debate all you want, that Oline wasn't the biggest "priority" this year. It will be one of the biggest property's next season. I promise you that.

 

I just don't know how anyone can say these things so conclusively without a single snap of football being played...by this theory, shouldn't our WRs be worse as well? We lost Donald Jones, David Nelson, and Ruvell Martin, all of whom started and provided depth for this team.

 

It's not that players haven't been added to the OL, they're just not guys that you're familiar with...

 

People who put people on "ignore" = RJ

 

I wouldn't say that...the function is there for a reason, so why not use it?

Edited June 5, 2013 by thebandit27

[Turbosrrgood]

Joe Buscaglia of WGR55 wrote about the OTAs and about Cordy Glenn's struggles with pass rushers in camp. I know there have been discussions here about the O-line and specifically about losing Levitre but this report about Glenn has me concerned. Many experts have said Glenn is not a LT. He looked pretty good last year. Was that atypical for him? If his performance falls off, who is his replacement? Buffalo appears to have improved it's talent level at WR and on D. Do we now have to be concerned about the O-line? Seems there is always something to worry about with this team.

 

I've been concerned about the O-line since last year, but Glenn is not the reason. He's proven to be an adequate, but not great blocker in ACTUAL GAMES to this point in his career. He has been a monster in the run game though. Hopefully he will only improve.

 

I am however, very concerned about RT, where all of Pears, Hairston, and Zebrie Sanders are hurt. Zebrie has never played in the NFL, and Pears and Hairston have looked shaky at best when they have played. Also of concern, is LG. We also have to cross our fingers that Urbik and Woods can make it through a full season.

 

I was very happy however, that the Bills made no attempt to keep Rinehart, who was absolutely terrible.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Turbosrrgood

[Sisyphean Bills]

The downfield passing game is only going to be one element of our offense. At Syracuse, they used mostly a quick passing WCO offense. You might've seen the quotes from Hackett awhile back about how he wants to run the ball a ton. Additionally we have a quarterback who can make plays with his feet.

I've heard this before and don't watch Syracuse. Did they really line up in a traditional WCO most of the time? That is with the QB under center and 2 backs in T formation? That would be seriously old school, btw. Using a FB in today's NFL is almost like going into the bar and ordering your drinks in Latin.

[NewEra]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand why people may think this at first, but the numbers simply don't bear this out. Check out the Football Outsiders' analysis of OL Adjusted Line Yards (which indicates blocking efficiency) as well as the Time to Throw stats. You'll find that what you say about C.J. and Fitz is absolutely true; you'll also find that the OL played a huge role in (a) creating holes for Spiller and (b) giving Fitz plenty of time.

 

 

 

I just don't know how anyone can say these things so conclusively without a single snap of football being played...by this theory, shouldn't our WRs be worse as well? We lost Donald Jones, David Nelson, and Ruvell Martin, all of whom started and provided depth for this team.

 

It's not that players haven't been added to the OL, they're just not guys that you're familiar

 

With regards to the running game last season, I thought our OL opened up some great holes for Cj. The majority of those holes were in the spread (or with 3-4 WRs. Passing formations.). Like others, and you have said, our short yardage blocking was atrocious. When we has to run it, we couldn't. To me....that falls on the OL. Regarding the pass blocking, while I don't think we were amazing, I thought we we good. Fritz led the nfl in getting rid of the ball quickly. That was the focus of our offense. To get rid of the ball quickly. It's hard to gauge how good an OL is, statistically speaking, in an offense predicated on such quick passing.

 

To your second comment....ok, I don't "know" that this years Oline isn't as good as last years. Maybe the coaching staff can get more out of our guys than last year, but I thought D'alesandris (sp?) did a great job. Losing Levitre and Reindeer degrades the talent level we have. BIG time. If colin brown or young were better than either of them, they would have played. It's safe to say, talent wise, our OL is worse.

 

We lost 2 bad WRs and replaced them with 3 more talented WRs. We lost one really good LG and our best backup interior lineman and replaced him with.....no one. It's obvious our coaching staff isn't happy with them, as we have 2 guys visiting this week. Can our OL be better than last year? If and only if, we add someone to play LG. can you imagine how great our line will be when Urbik or a Wood goes out (or both)? Colin brown, Sam young and my cousin Larry playing Lg/C/RG. Injuries WILL hit. If we don't add more talent ASAP, those injuries will cripple us.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

I think we should keep this thread going until someone convinces someone to change their mind about something. Adding to the fun of this task will be the fact that no one has anything concrete to base their arguments off of, since all that has occurred so far are OTAs.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[Malazan]

I think we should keep this thread going until someone convinces someone to change their mind about something. Adding to the fun of this task will be the fact that no one has anything concrete to base their arguments off of, since all that has occurred so far are OTAs.

 

You convinced me to change my mind on whether we should keep this thread going.

[Floridabillsfan1]

-Cordy Glenn was my favorite addition last year . I am not worried about his struggles in a new offense just coming on the field for OTA's . I like what I am hearing about this staff finding O line players that can play multiple positions . They are preparing for the storm and will be ready for injuries if they happen .

 

- I am also happy see nothing but speed being placed around the O line at every position . Even our QB has some wheels . I think back of the Johnson / Flutie years when Johnson was in compared to Flutie . Our O line looked worlds better with Flutie because he could move . Of course this offense has not played a snap yet but I am excited to see how it works out .

 

- My prediction is that this team will move the ball ( the chains ) fairly well in between the 20's like they did last year . My concern is the Red Zone offense with not many big or tall receivers in the ( predicted ) starting WR line up and no really smash mouth type RB for goal line carries . This area of the field might make the O line look bad . EJ might have to play like Cam Newton in that area and hog all touchdowns for himself . But hey , I would be fine with that . Please just win !!!!!!

 

Go Bills !!!!!

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

I've heard this before and don't watch Syracuse. Did they really line up in a traditional WCO most of the time? That is with the QB under center and 2 backs in T formation? That would be seriously old school, btw. Using a FB in today's NFL is almost like going into the bar and ordering your drinks in Latin.

 

I also don't watch Syracuse and don't know how they lined up, but when Hackett was hired I remember reading a number of articles talking about Syracuse's quick passing game. It may or may not have been the traditional WCO you speak of but it utilized those concepts. Here's a piece (worth a read) that highlights the similarities between Paul Hackett and the way Nate is doing things.

 

http://billsmafia.com/2013/05/17/bills-oc-nathaniel-hackett-utilizing-fathers-philosophies/

 

At USC, Hackett’s passing attack was predicated on high percentage passes in a timing offense, with three-to-five step drops. These are the exact offensive concepts that Coach Marrone and Hackett operated during their tenures at Syracuse.

 

While the game has obviously evolved tremendously in the 33 years it has been since Paul Hackett delivered his quarterback coaching clinic, Nathaniel has and is clearly using the primary principles that his father implemented in the past.

 

 

[Dorkington]

I forget where, but I seem to remember the Bills ranking low on pass protection past a 3 step drop/quick pass. Whether that's masking by Fitz or playbook from Chan, I do not know. (I know this is a response to questions early in the thread, sorry if it's covered already)

 

I'll see if I can dig up the stats/rankings.

 

That's my only concern, really. I feel like running was pretty good last year, and as long as Levitre wasn't the only one being productive in the run blocking schemes, we should continue to be fine there.

[eball]

- My prediction is that this team will move the ball ( the chains ) fairly well in between the 20's like they did last year . My concern is the Red Zone offense with not many big or tall receivers in the ( predicted ) starting WR line up and no really smash mouth type RB for goal line carries . This area of the field might make the O line look bad . EJ might have to play like Cam Newton in that area and hog all touchdowns for himself . But hey , I would be fine with that . Please just win !!!!!!

 

Go Bills !!!!!

 

Actually having CJ Spiller on the field when the offense is in the red zone this year can't hurt. #thankschan

[chris heff]

 

 

Actually having CJ Spiller on the field when the offense is in the red zone this year can't hurt. #thankschan

Right again, taking Spiller out in the red zone was inexplicable.

[thebandit27]

The Legursky signing adds some intrigue to this discussion...