Cheddar's Dad Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Joe Buscaglia of WGR55 wrote about the OTAs and about Cordy Glenn's struggles with pass rushers in camp. I know there have been discussions here about the O-line and specifically about losing Levitre but this report about Glenn has me concerned. Many experts have said Glenn is not a LT. He looked pretty good last year. Was that atypical for him? If his performance falls off, who is his replacement? Buffalo appears to have improved it's talent level at WR and on D. Do we now have to be concerned about the O-line? Seems there is always something to worry about with this team.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 No helmet, no pads, no contact, no worries. Also it's a nice touch to post the link to the article you reference. Thanks. BTW, I seem to remember that you wanted the Bills to draft Chance Warmack so it seems like O-line continues to be a concern of yours. Hopefully it's not a problem spot.
Webster Guy Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Glenn faced some of the best pass rushers in the world last year as a rookie and graded out just fine. My guess is that he isn't an offseason type of guy (seems like we lost a lot of those when Rusty Jones got canned--which I still consider one of our front office's biggest blunders) He has power and quick feet plus a year under his belt. I wouldn't worry about OTA performances. Some athletes just have to play themselves back into shape. Either way he had better hurry because from all indications this is going to be a very fast paced up-tempo offense that might not allow much time in between plays for the big fella's to catch their breath. Fitzy, for all his faults, was still a relatively easy guy to protect because he and Chan had a system for quick throws and minimal pocket time. This may have made Cordy look better than he really was, and playing with Levitre doesn't hurt you either. Both of those things are gone this year, so we need a big sophomore year from big 77.....
hondo in seattle Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Glenn faced some of the best pass rushers in the world last year as a rookie and graded out just fine. My guess is that he isn't an offseason type of guy (seems like we lost a lot of those when Rusty Jones got canned--which I still consider one of our front office's biggest blunders) He has power and quick feet plus a year under his belt. I wouldn't worry about OTA performances. Some athletes just have to play themselves back into shape. Either way he had better hurry because from all indications this is going to be a very fast paced up-tempo offense that might not allow much time in between plays for the big fella's to catch their breath. Fitzy, for all his faults, was still a relatively easy guy to protect because he and Chan had a system for quick throws and minimal pocket time. This may have made Cordy look better than he really was, and playing with Levitre doesn't hurt you either. Both of those things are gone this year, so we need a big sophomore year from big 77..... I agree with Webster. Levitre's departure concerns me. I wonder about the O Line. I don't worry about reports about Glenn's performance in OTAs.
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 No helmet, no pads, no contact, no worries. Also it's a nice touch to post the link to the article you reference. Thanks. BTW, I seem to remember that you wanted the Bills to draft Chance Warmack so it seems like O-line continues to be a concern of yours. Hopefully it's not a problem spot. Yes; it does. I have concerns that Fitz's fast release and quick throws have masked an inferior pass blocking O-line. Regarding posting links, sorry to have to admit this but I don't know how to do that. I grew up in the pre-computer age.
eball Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Serious question -- I don't have the time to go researching, but are there any actual statistics of Fitz's average snap-to-throw time? And more importantly, how it compares across the league? I've heard a lot of "Fitz masked OL deficiencies with his quick decisions and throws" but I'm skeptical.
26CornerBlitz Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Joe Buscaglia of WGR55 wrote about the OTAs and about Cordy Glenn's struggles with pass rushers in camp. I know there have been discussions here about the O-line and specifically about losing Levitre but this report about Glenn has me concerned. Many experts have said Glenn is not a LT. He looked pretty good last year. Was that atypical for him? If his performance falls off, who is his replacement? Buffalo appears to have improved it's talent level at WR and on D. Do we now have to be concerned about the O-line? Seems there is always something to worry about with this team. Take a listen to what KC Joyner of thefootballscientist.com and ESPN had to say about the Bills O-line on WGR: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/158342-no-bills-talk-on-wgr/page__st__80#entry2821211
thewildrabbit Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 (edited) Joe Buscaglia of WGR55 wrote about the OTAs and about Cordy Glenn's struggles with pass rushers in camp. I know there have been discussions here about the O-line and specifically about losing Levitre but this report about Glenn has me concerned. Many experts have said Glenn is not a LT. He looked pretty good last year. Was that atypical for him? If his performance falls off, who is his replacement? Buffalo appears to have improved it's talent level at WR and on D. Do we now have to be concerned about the O-line? Seems there is always something to worry about with this team. Nobody in this forum appears to have any real concern about the O line except a few like myself. I suppose it doesn't bother the majority of the Bills fans that Chan Gailey couldn't control the game with either aspect of his offense, not running, not passing, and its why he didn't win many games. I think it presents a huge glaring problem with the O line when they can't move anyone off the LoS for a 1st down on 3rd and short by running. Teams like the Texans stacked the box and kept it stacked and didn't fall for Gaileys smoke n mirror short, quick passing spread offensive scheme. They held Spiller to 6 carries for 39 yards, Freddy to 6 carries for 21 yards. They literally shut down the run game and dared the bills to beat them with Fitz, and when the Bills showed no deep passing game, that was easy. Then, there was no other QB play from the back up QB's Tavaris Jackson / Tyler Thigpen to determine if either could carry the offense. Even when Fitz suffered cracked- broken ribs in 2011, and the season was out of hand at the end of 2011-2012. I mean why not at least look at the backup QB's once there is no chance of going anywhere. Besides, why put the starting QB out there for an injury in meaningless games. Its my take that Gailey (scheme)- Fitz (ability) masked some real issues with several players on that line. So the enduring question about which should you draft for first (QB or Line) is about to be shown to us again in 2013. Some fans look at the stats, over 5 YPC avg, 30 sacks allowed and think the Bills have one of the top lines in the NFL despite a revolving door at so many positions due to injuries. It tells me that the +5.0 YPC avg was due to the big runs, big plays because of the spread offensive scheme. It also tells me when there is no great drop off in play between a starter and backup at tackle, guard, center that something / someone is masking KC Joyner talks about the Buffalo Bills being the #1 team in good blocking in 2012 Spiller getting 9 ypc with good blocking, Jackson 6 YPC with good blocking, and yet teams like the 49ers -Texans - Rams absolutely shut that Bills run game down....no good blocking in those games? Lies, damned lies and statistics...show me the wins!! Edited June 3, 2013 by FeartheLosing
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 I just think that for the first time, in a very long time, our offense as a whole and especially the O-Line are seeing a decent defensive scheme with pressure coming from all over the field which may be the reason for the O-line having issues picking up blitzes and protecting the QB... I may be wrong but if that IS the case then with every practice that will make the O-line more alert and with every practice they will get more accustomed to tricky defenses and will only make us THAT much better as an offense... Oh and it also could mean that we just may have an outstanding defense for a change...
Fan in San Diego Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 EJ3 has a very fast release. West coast offense gets the pass out very fast. Shouldn't be a problem. I hope.
Malazan Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 or...they are playing without pads which makes it tougher for offensive lineman to tie up defenders... Don't let that get in the way of a good panic though.
Cheddar's Dad Posted June 3, 2013 Author Posted June 3, 2013 I just think that for the first time, in a very long time, our offense as a whole and especially the O-Line are seeing a decent defensive scheme with pressure coming from all over the field which may be the reason for the O-line having issues picking up blitzes and protecting the QB... I may be wrong but if that IS the case then with every practice that will make the O-line more alert and with every practice they will get more accustomed to tricky defenses and will only make us THAT much better as an offense... Oh and it also could mean that we just may have an outstanding defense for a change... Whoa; you really are optimistic. I'm trying to be. Just spent a little time researching Luke Kuechly's bio thinking Kiko might be another Kuechly. It's june. Time for a little day dreaming. Still; all of those touch sacks during OTAs linger in the back of my mind..
eball Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Nobody in this forum appears to have any real concern about the O line except a few like myself. I suppose it doesn't bother the majority of the Bills fans that Chan Gailey couldn't control the game with either aspect of his offense, not running, not passing, and its why he didn't win many games. I think it presents a huge glaring problem with the O line when they can't move anyone off the LoS for a 1st down on 3rd and short by running. Teams like the Texans stacked the box and kept it stacked and didn't fall for Gaileys smoke n mirror short, quick passing spread offensive scheme. They held Spiller to 6 carries for 39 yards, Freddy to 6 carries for 21 yards. They literally shut down the run game and dared the bills to beat them with Fitz, and when the Bills showed no deep passing game, that was easy. Then, there was no other QB play from the back up QB's Tavaris Jackson / Tyler Thigpen to determine if either could carry the offense. Even when Fitz suffered cracked- broken ribs in 2011, and the season was out of hand at the end of 2011-2012. I mean why not at least look at the backup QB's once there is no chance of going anywhere. Besides, why put the starting QB out there for an injury in meaningless games. Its my take that Gailey (scheme)- Fitz (ability) masked some real issues with several players on that line. So the enduring question about which should you draft for first (QB or Line) is about to be shown to us again in 2013. Some fans look at the stats, over 5 YPC avg, 30 sacks allowed and think the Bills have one of the top lines in the NFL despite a revolving door at so many positions due to injuries. It tells me that the +5.0 YPC avg was due to the big runs, big plays because of the spread offensive scheme. It also tells me when there is no great drop off in play between a starter and backup at tackle, guard, center that something / someone is masking KC Joyner talks about the Buffalo Bills being the #1 team in good blocking in 2012 Spiller getting 9 ypc with good blocking, Jackson 6 YPC with good blocking, and yet teams like the 49ers -Texans - Rams absolutely shut that Bills run game down....no good blocking in those games? Lies, damned lies and statistics...show me the wins!! I think you answer your own questions. Fitz couldn't beat anyone deep. Watch what an accurate long ball QB does for this offense.
Heitz Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Take a listen to what KC Joyner of thefootballscientist.com and ESPN had to say about the Bills O-line on WGR: http://forums.twobil...80#entry2821211 Is he even a member of TBD!? Then his prediction that the O Line will be fine means nothing. We jump to our own conclusions here my friend! I say we package Glen with Byrd and trade them both! Hell, throw CJ in too, he's never going to resign when his contract is up, from what I've read / felt in a dream...
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Whoa; you really are optimistic. I'm trying to be. Just spent a little time researching Luke Kuechly's bio thinking Kiko might be another Kuechly. It's june. Time for a little day dreaming. Still; all of those touch sacks during OTAs linger in the back of my mind.. Like Jeremy said, they don't have the pads on yet so everybody looks upbeat and fast during practice... But I will say, I'm also drinking the Kiko Kool aid as of now... Hopefully the kid turns it up when the pads go on and keeps turning it up as training camp and preseason comes along...
Uncle Joe Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Hell, throw CJ in too, he's never going to resign when his contract is up, from what I've read / felt in a dream... Gotta love the English language. Do you think CJ will resign or resign?
thewildrabbit Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 I just think that for the first time, in a very long time, our offense as a whole and especially the O-Line are seeing a decent defensive scheme with pressure coming from all over the field which may be the reason for the O-line having issues picking up blitzes and protecting the QB... I may be wrong but if that IS the case then with every practice that will make the O-line more alert and with every practice they will get more accustomed to tricky defenses and will only make us THAT much better as an offense... Oh and it also could mean that we just may have an outstanding defense for a change... Pettine coached the NY Jets last year, and has for several years. I highly doubt the Bills defense is showing anything at this point that the O linemen haven't already seen. I think you answer your own questions. Fitz couldn't beat anyone deep. Watch what an accurate long ball QB does for this offense. I didn't answer any of my own questions! Being able to throw deep with accuracy is a far cry from actually having the time in the pocket to throw deep. Despite Fitz's ability to get the ball out to the open receiver so quickly, It didn't always keep him from getting all the hits he endured after the ball was already out, or suffering those cracked / broken ribs. It also doesn't answer the line players inability to move the LoS a few yards on 3rd and short to make a first down by running. Three teams last year completely shut down the Bills run game. Now it could be said that Gailey oft times gave up on the run much to quickly in those games, who knows. Mind you, I'm not looking at OTA's and making my forming my opinions. I'm looking at last years play and forming them. I have my doubts about several starters on that line, and will continue to have doubts until I see better play from them.
thebandit27 Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Nobody in this forum appears to have any real concern about the O line except a few like myself. I suppose it doesn't bother the majority of the Bills fans that Chan Gailey couldn't control the game with either aspect of his offense, not running, not passing, and its why he didn't win many games. I think it presents a huge glaring problem with the O line when they can't move anyone off the LoS for a 1st down on 3rd and short by running. Teams like the Texans stacked the box and kept it stacked and didn't fall for Gaileys smoke n mirror short, quick passing spread offensive scheme. They held Spiller to 6 carries for 39 yards, Freddy to 6 carries for 21 yards. They literally shut down the run game and dared the bills to beat them with Fitz, and when the Bills showed no deep passing game, that was easy. Then, there was no other QB play from the back up QB's Tavaris Jackson / Tyler Thigpen to determine if either could carry the offense. Even when Fitz suffered cracked- broken ribs in 2011, and the season was out of hand at the end of 2011-2012. I mean why not at least look at the backup QB's once there is no chance of going anywhere. Besides, why put the starting QB out there for an injury in meaningless games. Its my take that Gailey (scheme)- Fitz (ability) masked some real issues with several players on that line. So the enduring question about which should you draft for first (QB or Line) is about to be shown to us again in 2013. Some fans look at the stats, over 5 YPC avg, 30 sacks allowed and think the Bills have one of the top lines in the NFL despite a revolving door at so many positions due to injuries. It tells me that the +5.0 YPC avg was due to the big runs, big plays because of the spread offensive scheme. It also tells me when there is no great drop off in play between a starter and backup at tackle, guard, center that something / someone is masking KC Joyner talks about the Buffalo Bills being the #1 team in good blocking in 2012 Spiller getting 9 ypc with good blocking, Jackson 6 YPC with good blocking, and yet teams like the 49ers -Texans - Rams absolutely shut that Bills run game down....no good blocking in those games? Lies, damned lies and statistics...show me the wins!! Come on man...I've seen crusades, but this one that you're on against the Buffalo OL is brutal. The SF game was a complete blowout. Spiller had 6, count 'em, 6 touches in the first half. By the time he saw the ball in the 3rd quarter, the team was facing a 3 TD deficit. What, exactly, do you want them to do? Run the ball down the opponent's throat when your down 3 TDs. That's probably why they finished with a total of 16 called running plays for the game (out of a total of 46 offensive snaps). You like to use the Texans as an example, and then state that they "shut down" the running game by holding C.J. to over 6 yards per carry? Methinks the problem in that game was not enough running, not that they shut Buffalo's running game down. 12 rushes total between the top 2 backs on last year's team isn't going to get it done. The Rams game? Um, same thing. You can't expect much if you give Spiller 7 carries (which he--again--went for over 5 yards per carry). I'm starting to think you either (a) don't watch the games, or (b) don't have a very good memory. I mean, it was a 3 point game and Gailey called 16 running plays total (save for 1 end around to T.J. Graham). Way to get the ball in your best players' hands. And as I've pointed out to you before, your suspicion about Gailey and Fitz is incorrect. See post #30 and #35 in the following thread for all the gory details: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/158109-what-about-lg/page__st__20#entry2802792 Pettine coached the NY Jets last year, and has for several years. I highly doubt the Bills defense is showing anything at this point that the O linemen haven't already seen. I didn't answer any of my own questions! Being able to throw deep with accuracy is a far cry from actually having the time in the pocket to throw deep. Despite Fitz's ability to get the ball out to the open receiver so quickly, It didn't always keep him from getting all the hits he endured after the ball was already out, or suffering those cracked / broken ribs. It also doesn't answer the line players inability to move the LoS a few yards on 3rd and short to make a first down by running. Three teams last year completely shut down the Bills run game. Now it could be said that Gailey oft times gave up on the run much to quickly in those games, who knows. Mind you, I'm not looking at OTA's and making my forming my opinions. I'm looking at last years play and forming them. I have my doubts about several starters on that line, and will continue to have doubts until I see better play from them. Ding ding ding. Well, now you certainly can't claim that you didn't answer any of your own questions.
Heitz Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 Gotta love the English language. Do you think CJ will resign or resign? Obviously we're so bad he'll resign before he ever resigns.
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