isn't there something fundamentally wrong?

[DC Tom]

people are looking at the feasibility of insects as a major protein source for the future and you're proposing steak for all. Are you related to Marie Antoinette? It's not possible. It doesn't mean that no one can ever acquire steak however.

 

Insects have been a major protein source in many cultures for millenia, you idiot.

 

He thinks the system is rigged because he doesn't have enough income/wealth to qualify for investment minimums in the exclusive private equity/hedge funds, so he thinks he's disadvantaged. What he fails to recognize is that if those private equity pools actually beat the overall market/segment returns, they are modestly higher than what is available to the general public through regular mutual funds, index funds or ETFs. What he also doesn't recognize is that outside Warren Buffet, few of the vilified 1% got there through investment income vs building something great and have the market recognize that greatness through market valuation.

 

He also doesn't recognize that the piece he referenced was about GLOBAL WEALTH, not just the US, so most of his point (whatever it is) is moot. That's why he conveniently ignored my request to source the link of the story and talk about the actual BCG study and not get n his usual soap box about wealth distribution, blah blah blah.

 

I haven't bothered thinking past the fact that he equates money to food. Mass starvation and famine aren't caused by the inability to buy food, they're caused by the complete lack of food in the area experiencing starvation. It's not like people are starving in Somalia because they can't afford to go to the supermarket...they're starving because THERE'S NO FOOD IN SOMALIA.

Edited June 1, 2013 by DC Tom

[3rdnlng]

 

 

Insects have been a major protein source in many cultures for millenia, you idiot.

 

 

 

I haven't bothered thinking past the fact that he equates money to food. Mass starvation and famine aren't caused by the inability to buy food, they're caused by the complete lack of food in the area experiencing starvation. It's not like people are starving in Somalia because they can't afford to go to the supermarket...they're starving because THERE'S NO FOOD IN SOMALIA.

 

But he and his ilk are all for using valuable crop land in order to force biofuels on us. The only thing that biofuels has accomplished is to make food more expensive. Oh, and increasing taxes by reducing mpg causing the consumer to purchase more fuel. Makes 'em feel like they're doing something though.

[birdog1960]

He thinks the system is rigged because he doesn't have enough income/wealth to qualify for investment minimums in the exclusive private equity/hedge funds, so he thinks he's disadvantaged. What he fails to recognize is that if those private equity pools actually beat the overall market/segment returns, they are modestly higher than what is available to the general public through regular mutual funds, index funds or ETFs. What he also doesn't recognize is that outside Warren Buffet, few of the vilified 1% got there through investment income vs building something great and have the market recognize that greatness through market valuation.

 

He also doesn't recognize that the piece he referenced was about GLOBAL WEALTH, not just the US, so most of his point (whatever it is) is moot. That's why he conveniently ignored my request to source the link of the story and talk about the actual BCG study and not get n his usual soap box about wealth distribution, blah blah blah.

i fully realized the article was discussing global wealth. my point was that there seems to be a fundamental problem globally with how we prioritize things. hence, the much maligned star trek reference.

 

and from the article you'll see that the expected rate of wealth growth for those with wealth over 100 million is twice as much as that for nearly everyone else. i can understand that this has much to do with investable income but also with special provisions afforded the very wealthy from governments around the world (with a few exceptions). the more interesting thing to me is that those with wealth of 5 million can expect significantly less wealth growth than those with 100 million. 5 mil can get you into any of the funds you mentioned so what accounts for the difference? it is what it is. i'm certainly not going to change it. but what it is, is fundamentally flawed. while you folks are worrying about the badness of redistribution of wealth downwards the upward spiral advances exponentially. stop worrying. you're winning.

 

Insects have been a major protein source in many cultures for millenia, you idiot.

 

 

 

I haven't bothered thinking past the fact that he equates money to food. Mass starvation and famine aren't caused by the inability to buy food, they're caused by the complete lack of food in the area experiencing starvation. It's not like people are starving in Somalia because they can't afford to go to the supermarket...they're starving because THERE'S NO FOOD IN SOMALIA.

yes, it has but not on the scale anticipated by the UN. is it impossible to grow food in somalia? well, no. there's hungry people right here with access to supermarkets. in both cases it does equate to the allocation of resources which in turn equates with money. one example is more directly related but they are both related. http://www.odihpn.org/humanitarian-exchange-magazine/issue-42/somalias-growing-urban-food-security-crisis Edited June 1, 2013 by birdog1960

[3rdnlng]

One of the causes of the discrepancy regarding wealth:

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...ince-recession/

 

 

(MoneyWatch) Increasing housing prices and the stock market''s posting all-time highs haven't helped the plight most Americans. The average U.S. household has recovered only 45 percent of the wealth they lost during the recession, according to a report released yesterday from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.

This finding is a very different picture than one painted in a report earlier this year by the Fed that calculated Americans as a whole had regained 91 percent of their losses. The writers of the report released yesterday point out that the earlier number is based on aggregate household-net-worth data. However, this isn't adjusted for inflation, population growth or the nature of the wealth. Further, they say much of recovery in net worth is because of the stock market, which means most of the improvement has been a boon only to wealthy families.

"Clearly, the 91 percent recovery of wealth losses portrayed by the aggregate nominal measure paints a different picture than the 45 percent recovery of wealth losses indicated by the average inflation-adjusted household measure," the report said. "Considering the uneven recovery of wealth across households, a conclusion that the financial damage of the crisis and recession largely has been repaired is not justified," the researchers said.

• 
   
  

Edited June 1, 2013 by 3rdnlng

[birdog1960]

One of the causes of the discrepancy regarding wealth:

 

http://www.cbsnews.c...ince-recession/

which fits in not so nicely with this: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/big-banks-still-write-rules-fmr-inspector-general-131105952.html. is the game rigged? to magox point, these banks actions have global implications.

[....lybob]

which fits in not so nicely with this: http://finance.yahoo...-131105952.html. is the game rigged? to magox point, these banks actions have global implications.

After LIBOR, ICAP, HSBC, and what seems to be a new financial scandal every week I hope that is a rhetorical question.

[birdog1960]

After LIBOR, ICAP, HSBC, and what seems to be a new financial scandal every week I hope that is a rhetorical question.

it is to me. to the others participating in the thread, not so much...

[3rdnlng]

which fits in not so nicely with this: http://finance.yahoo...-131105952.html. is the game rigged? to magox point, these banks actions have global implications.

 

Tell me, why did the housing market collapse? Could it have been because of the unintended consequences of the CRA and the over all tone it set?

[birdog1960]

Tell me, why did the housing market collapse? Could it have been because of the unintended consequences of the CRA and the over all tone it set?

could it be multifactorial as is the cause of most major blunders? perhaps we can invoke a few likely, nonpartisan usual suspects: greed, graft, avarice, short sightedness, greed (again) and hubris.

[3rdnlng]

could it be multifactorial as is the cause of most major blunders? perhaps we can invoke a few likely, nonpartisan usual suspects: greed, graft, avarice, short sightedness, greed (again) and hubris.

 

It's like I'm discussing something with Barney Frank. Those schitheads were part of corrupting the system by loosening the regs, then are on tape claiming that everything was ok (because they were getting major political donations) and then claiming that the "deregulation" under Bush was the problem.

[birdog1960]

It's like I'm discussing something with Barney Frank. Those schitheads were part of corrupting the system by loosening the regs, then are on tape claiming that everything was ok (because they were getting major political donations) and then claiming that the "deregulation" under Bush was the problem.

the problem was an ill timed agenda that the potential winners were never worried about losing from, but that was because they thought regular folks were the only ones in real jeopardy, they were wrong. most had impressive back up. much more worrisome was that same masterminds are more likely to be wrong again and again.. ... with little skin in the game . have i mentioned that i'm not optimistic. but fear not....the fed will step in again and save....wait for it... the wealthy and a few big winners will know the plan and the timing well before anyone else does.

[3rdnlng]

the problem was an ill timed agenda that the potential winners were never worried about losing from, but that was because they thought regular folks were the only ones in real jeopardy, they were wrong. most had impressive back up. much more worrisome was that same masterminds are more likely to be wrong again and again.. ... with little skin in the game . have i mentioned that i'm not optimistic. but fear not....the fed will step in again and save....wait for it... the wealthy and a few big winners will know the plan and the timing well before anyone else does.

 

Can you stay awake for another 5-6 hours to discuss this with John Wawrow? It could be classic.

[OCinBuffalo]

no, my argument has startling but actual statistics: http://www.wfp.org/hunger/stats. but what s a few hundred million humans dying of starvation compared to a few million stables of exotic cars and homes?

Well, historically, what is a few Venetian and Florentine bankers making money compared with starving European populations....or, did they create the wealth that supported Michelangelo? Da Vinci? I'd say the world is a slightly better place due to those 2 guys, than if we had just spent it "fairly" on the untalented LCD.

 

Going back further: What is a few guys spending their time and pelts inventing the loin cloth, when they could have spent it on feeding the slowest and dumbest cave man? Without that choice, and many like it, to invest scarce resources into something that would make life better for most cave men, but granted, not all....

 

...your practice of medicine today would be: dancing around a fire, chanting and clapping your hands, and howling at the moon.

.....and you avoided the question because you knew that your principles values couldn't stand the test.....

ha HA! See? It's already taking hold. I am pleased. Hopefully soon we eradicate pretending that one's values are = to human principles. Or, that they are = to morality.

aren't wealth and poverty terms that ultimately describe the ability to obtain or not obtain resources?

I thought this was America, so no, here we say: talent and/or developed skill and hard work ultimately describe the ability to obtain or not obtain resources.

 

The simple fact is that far too many people in this country either lack talent, refuse to admit it, or refuse to do what they are good at. Or, they refuse to accept their own limitations. Or, they refuse to do the things that both you and I have been doing since kindergarten, consistently. Instead, we have this "you can be a star based on little" mentality, that says I am entitled to "80k a year, benefits, and a 40 hour work week"(direct quote from an OWS clown)....yet have no real talent, or skills they've worked hard to develop, or willingness to start at 30k, with a 60 hour work week, that merits such a thing.

 

And, birdog? Clearly you don't spend much time in bars. I do, so let me tell you: many are full of people who's biggest problem has been themselves, for their entire life. I hear the stories because I like listening to people in general, seeing how they think about things, etc. Sooner or later you begin to see a pattern with some people: it's not the coach that didn't play them, or the boss that fired/didn't promote them, or the significant other that didn't love them.

 

It's that they didn't learn anything from that experience, or the next 20 . They will learn nothing from the next 20 either, and this is 100% by choice. They are stuck where they are, and they always will be. We could have pity for these people, but that solves nothing, and only enables another round of shots, and more wallowing in misery.

 

My JV coach: "The Greatest Winners are the Greatest Losers". What we learn, and what we change, as a result of losing, at anything, is how we win the next time.

 

There is NO government program that you and your friends can devise that prescribes humility, introspection, and daily, active change. That has to come from the individual, personally, on daily basis. What we can control? Not supporting more wallowing, or telling them that they are entitled to wallow, or that wallowing is an acceptable state for them, or that it's somebody else's fault that they are wallowing.

 

I will be drinking, not wallowing, soon, and whatever comes of that is nobody's fault but mine. (Hmm. Now I think I will put on some Zep before I go...)

Edited June 2, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[GG]

After LIBOR, ICAP, HSBC, and what seems to be a new financial scandal every week I hope that is a rhetorical question.

Oh goodie, now that you've given up YouTube, you've discovered acronyms. What's next, prime numbers?

[3rdnlng]

Well, historically, what is a few Venetian and Florentine bankers making money compared with starving European populations....or, did they create the wealth that supported Michelangelo? Da Vinci? I'd say the world is a slightly better place due to those 2 guys, than if we had just spent it "fairly" on the untalented LCD.

 

Going back further: What is a few guys spending their time and pelts inventing the loin cloth, when they could have spent it on feeding the slowest and dumbest cave man? Without that choice, and many like it, to invest scarce resources into something that would make life better for most cave men, but granted, not all....

 

...your practice of medicine today would be: dancing around a fire, chanting and clapping your hands, and howling at the moon.

 

ha HA! See? It's already taking hold. I am pleased. Hopefully soon we eradicate pretending that one's values are = to human principles. Or, that they are = to morality.

 

I thought this was America, so no, here we say: talent and/or developed skill and hard work ultimately describe the ability to obtain or not obtain resources.

 

The simple fact is that far too many people in this country either lack talent, refuse to admit it, or refuse to do what they are good at. Or, they refuse to accept their own limitations. Or, they refuse to do the things that both you and I have been doing since kindergarten, consistently. Instead, we have this "you can be a star based on little" mentality, that says I am entitled to "80k a year, benefits, and a 40 hour work week"(direct quote from an OWS clown)....yet have no real talent, or skills they've worked hard to develop, or willingness to start at 30k, with a 60 hour work week, that merits such a thing.

 

And, birdog? Clearly you don't spend much time in bars. I do, so let me tell you: many are full of people who's biggest problem has been themselves, for their entire life. I hear the stories because I like listening to people in general, seeing how they think about things, etc. Sooner or later you begin to see a pattern with some people: it's not the coach that didn't play them, or the boss that fired/didn't promote them, or the significant other that didn't love them.

 

It's that they didn't learn anything from that experience, or the next 20 . They will learn nothing from the next 20 either, and this is 100% by choice. They are stuck where they are, and they always will be. We could have pity for these people, but that solves nothing, and only enables another round of shots, and more wallowing in misery.

 

My JV coach: "The Greatest Winners are the Greatest Losers". What we learn, and what we change, as a result of losing, at anything, is how we win the next time.

 

There is NO government program that you and your friends can devise that prescribes humility, introspection, and daily, active change. That has to come from the individual, personally, on daily basis. What we can control? Not supporting more wallowing, or telling them that they are entitled to wallow, or that wallowing is an acceptable state for them, or that it's somebody else's fault that they are wallowing.

 

I will be drinking, not wallowing, soon, and whatever comes of that is nobody's fault but mine. (Hmm. Now I think I will put on some Zep before I go...)

 

Go in peace, I guess.

[unbillievable]

Hypothetical:

Imagine a world where the wealth was perfectly distributed. Everyone had the exact same everything. How would it look? How do you make it work?

[dayman]

Hypothetical:

Imagine a world where the wealth was perfectly distributed. Everyone had the exact same everything. How would it look? How do you make it work?

 

You pretty much need robots doing everything

[birdog1960]

Well, historically, what is a few Venetian and Florentine bankers making money compared with starving European populations....or, did they create the wealth that supported Michelangelo? Da Vinci? I'd say the world is a slightly better place due to those 2 guys, than if we had just spent it "fairly" on the untalented LCD.

 

Going back further: What is a few guys spending their time and pelts inventing the loin cloth, when they could have spent it on feeding the slowest and dumbest cave man? Without that choice, and many like it, to invest scarce resources into something that would make life better for most cave men, but granted, not all....

 

...your practice of medicine today would be: dancing around a fire, chanting and clapping your hands, and howling at the moon.

 

ha HA! See? It's already taking hold. I am pleased. Hopefully soon we eradicate pretending that one's value

i'm guessing you had a few drinks before you left for the bar. the loincloth was a major achievement? as far as italian renaissance figures, it doesn't surprise me that you're a machiavelli fan. i'm not. and i'm not buying the idea that robber barons (the prince) need rule for great thinkers and art to flourish. i'd bet their work would have been even more fantastic and imaginative in a more open and equitable society.

[ExiledInIllinois]

people are looking at the feasibility of insects as a major protein source for the future and you're proposing steak for all. Are you related to Marie Antoinette? It's not possible. It doesn't mean that no one can ever acquire steak however.

 

Insects? Now you did it! You got me started on the Asian carp! We are staring @ a gift from heaven! They can pull 30 million pounds of Asian carp out of the lower Illinois river alone, yearly. Collapse the whole east and west coast fish trade from the big rivers of the midwest (MS, MO, OH, & IL). That fish has 75% more omega-3 than next highest fish, salmon, and is whopper of a protein source! Considered "rough" in North America to the picky/finicky US/Canadian tastes, Asian carp is still the world's MOST eaten fish. Heck, what do you think is in gefilte fish? The reason they can't sustain natural populations overseas is because of pollution... This fish, given clean waters, is a reproducing machine that is very hard to over fish. They even tried to get the Asian carp to take off in the Nile years ago... To help with the hunger problem. Now we have a clean enviro. These fish are filter feeders UNLIKE common carp that muck in the mud... Asian carp feed @ the top of the water and are SAFER from contaminents than any other sport fish like salmon. The term carp is a misnomer, they are not common carp. If these things take off, we can wipe out stuff like fishing licenses and state DNR's telling us that they need to protect the enviro from ourselves. Do you think the gov't (DNR's) likes that? People could take what they like. Just think... The silver carp even jump right into your boat... All you gotta do is hit the throttle @ 2500 rpms and boom! There is dinner coming @ you @ 20 mph and 75 pounds a pop!

 

"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to hit the throttle, feed him for life!"

 

Edited June 2, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois

[4merper4mer]

You pretty much need robots doing everything

 

I think we've all seen more than 1 movie about where that leads.