Blurring the line between CB and S.

[ChanOverChin]

Here's a nice article, which outlines the current status of the Bills' CB situation. The link: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-roster/2013/5/28/4372172/buffalo-bills-stephon-gilmore-leodis-mckelvin-strong-bets-to-start.

 

I have real concerns about our depth at CB, which is why I bring this issue up. For a defense that plans to be very aggressive, to blitz often, and to cover man to man, it better have some reliable CBs or things aren't going to work out too well.

 

I would categorize our current CB crop as follows:

 

1. Top Notch - Gilmore.

I expect him to just get better and better and for Pettine to match him up with the opposing team's best WR on a regular basis.

 

2. Average to Above Average - McKelvin/Brooks.

If used wisely (i.e. where their skills are best suited) both guys could perform well. McKelvin will likely play outside, while Brooks will likely cover the slot. Both are fast/agile enough to get to the QB on the blitz in Pettine's aggressive scheme.

 

3. Average - Rogers/Butler/Robey.

Rogers is not big enough to play outside and neither is Robey. Both may be well suited for covering the slot however because of their quickness.

Butler is a player that the Bills really like. He will play outside because he has good size. Butler and Robey are both newcomers to keep and eye on because they both could be pleasant surprises.

 

4. Hopefuls - Ellis/Kearney/Heath/Edwards/Rolle.

The Bills' new regime obviously likes the long, lanky, athletic type (i.e. the CB/S hybrid) and these guys fit that roll pretty well. Maybe 1-2 of them will surprise.

 

Note: A. Williams and D. Williams will primarily be safeties in Pettine's scheme, but may be asked to cover various types of receivers at times. Thus, they at least add to the depth of the CB group.

 

Two questions for you.

1. How do you rate our CB group??

2. is there a strong need to add at least one veteran CB after June 1st??

[thebandit27]

Here's a nice article, which outlines the current status of the Bills' CB situation. The link: http://www.buffaloru...g-bets-to-start.

 

I have real concerns about our depth at CB, which is why I bring this issue up. For a defense that plans to be very aggressive, to blitz often, and to cover man to man, it better have some reliable CBs or things aren't going to work out too well.

 

I would categorize our current CB crop as follows:

 

1. Top Notch - Gilmore.

I expect him to just get better and better and for Pettine to match him up with the opposing team's best WR on a regular basis.

 

2. Average to Above Average - McKelvin/Brooks.

If used wisely (i.e. where their skills are best suited) both guys could perform well. McKelvin will likely play outside, while Brooks will likely cover the slot. Both are fast/agile enough to get to the QB on the blitz in Pettine's aggressive scheme.

 

3. Average - Rogers/Butler/Robey.

Rogers is not big enough to play outside and neither is Robey. Both may be well suited for covering the slot however because of their quickness.

Butler is a player that the Bills really like. He will play outside because he has good size. Butler and Robey are both newcomers to keep and eye on because they both could be pleasant surprises.

 

4. Hopefuls - Ellis/Kearney/Heath/Edwards/Rolle.

The Bills' new regime obviously likes the long, lanky, athletic type (i.e. the CB/S hybrid) and these guys fit that roll pretty well. Maybe 1-2 of them will surprise.

 

Note: A. Williams and D. Williams will primarily be safeties in Pettine's scheme, but may be asked to cover various types of receivers at times. Thus, they at least add to the depth of the CB group.

 

Two questions for you.

1. How do you rate our CB group??

2. is there a strong need to add at least one veteran CB after June 1st??

 

I think you've got every one of those guys one level higher than they belong.

 

Gilmore, for certain, has top-notch skills, but isn't there yet as a player. I have little doubt he'll get there, but he's not there yet.

 

McKelvin is above average at his best, but he's seldom at his best. He's average. Brooks doesn't belong in the same class as Leodis.

 

Rogers/Brooks are below average, and nobody's seen enough of Butler to make a determination. Robey's a rookie UDFA; putting him anywhere other than "hopeful" is misguided IMO.

 

All others belong in the hopeful category.

 

JMO

[tennesseeboy]

Interesting. This is a pretty fluid situation and I'm hoping some of your hopefuls pan out. CB's do tend to get injured as the season progresses and we really need some depth.

[NewEra]

 

 

I think you've got every one of those guys one level higher than they belong.

 

Gilmore, for certain, has top-notch skills, but isn't there yet as a player. I have little doubt he'll get there, but he's not there yet.

 

McKelvin is above average at his best, but he's seldom at his best. He's average. Brooks doesn't belong in the same class as Leodis.

 

Rogers/Brooks are below average, and nobody's seen enough of Butler to make a determination. Robey's a rookie UDFA; putting him anywhere other than "hopeful" is misguided IMO.

 

All others belong in the hopeful category.

 

JMO

 

Agreed for he most part. I think CoC is rating them on how he believes they will perform in this new defense? not how they've performed in the past.

 

While I'm a HUGE Gilmore fan, I can't rank his as top notch right now. Hopefully, in this new D, he can earn that. We hope he's a top notch CB, its just taking the leap from good to top notch is a big one and hard to predict.

 

I'm more inclined to agree with CoC and say that mckelvin/brooks = average to above average. I'm really high on both of them and expect big things from both this season. I view their play this season as the key to our success (other than QB play). I expect teams to throw at them 80-90% of the time on 3rd down. If they play well, Our D could be special, possibly top 5. If they stink it up, I don't think we'll be any higher than 20th best D.

 

I'd rate the rest of the guys below average. In fact, way below average. I liked what I saw from Rogers in his rookie year. I actually thought he'd be a solid nickel back. After watching him last year, I don't ever want to see him on the field. Maybe the scheme will help him.....it can't make him any worse. I like Robey. I pray he sticks and can become a player for us, but I think it's an uphill battle that will be tough for him to win. Butler....eh. He can't be much worse than Rogers last season.....but that's far from average.

 

The coverage ability of our Safety's (and LBs) will be paramount as Pettine likes to bring heat from everywhere, including the CBs. I have no worries about Byrd (except his contract). Aaron Williams could be a solid cover safety and I LOVE the Duke Williams pick. Absolutely love this kid. I can see him getting torched a few times this year in coverage, but I feel he'll blossom into a very good all around safety soon. I'm not high on searcy in coverage, but I don't think he's terrible. He's a beast in the box though. I think Scott should be a safety again. Hopefully Pettine can get the most out of him and make me change my mind. I don't know enough about Meeks to discuss him. For whatever reason (possibly ignorance), I think he's going to be a wasted pick.

 

Overall, I like our top 3 guys and have hope for Robey. That being said, injuries often hit and I expect at least one of these guys to go down, leaving Robey as our nickel back, maybe even starter. That's scary. I'd love to add another CB, strictly because someone's gonna get hurt. If injuries weren't a factor, I like our top 3s potential and in this scheme, think they will rise to the occasion and be solid players. I think our top 3 has as much talent as a lot of the top units. All 3 guys have elite athletiscm IMO, and will not only be assets in coverage, but also bringing the heat on blitzes.

 

[KD in CA]

I think you've got every one of those guys one level higher than they belong.

 

Exactly what I was thinking reading his post.

Edited May 28, 2013 by KD in CT

[Mr. WEO]

Exactly what I was thinking reading his post.

 

Me too.

[Dorkington]

I think you've got every one of those guys one level higher than they belong.

 

Gilmore, for certain, has top-notch skills, but isn't there yet as a player. I have little doubt he'll get there, but he's not there yet.

 

McKelvin is above average at his best, but he's seldom at his best. He's average. Brooks doesn't belong in the same class as Leodis.

 

Rogers/Brooks are below average, and nobody's seen enough of Butler to make a determination. Robey's a rookie UDFA; putting him anywhere other than "hopeful" is misguided IMO.

 

All others belong in the hopeful category.

 

JMO

 

I agree with this. Gilmore is solid, and could be great, but he isn't yet.

 

The rest are average or well below. At least under the last staff... maybe the current staff will put these guys in a better position to succeed.

[MOFO]

Me too.

 

Me three...hope we have a free agent pick-up in our future...

[Prickly Pete]

I think teams are going to pick on McKelvin. I think he will make the occasional big play (mostly because they will throw at him so much), but will get burned quite a bit.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Turbosrrgood]

I think you've got every one of those guys one level higher than they belong.

 

Gilmore, for certain, has top-notch skills, but isn't there yet as a player. I have little doubt he'll get there, but he's not there yet.

 

McKelvin is above average at his best, but he's seldom at his best. He's average. Brooks doesn't belong in the same class as Leodis.

 

Rogers/Brooks are below average, and nobody's seen enough of Butler to make a determination. Robey's a rookie UDFA; putting him anywhere other than "hopeful" is misguided IMO.

 

All others belong in the hopeful category.

 

JMO

 

I agree with the first statement but I'm kind of surprised at the Brooks hate considering he was thrust into a prominent role after suffering a significant injury in his rookie season. He was a 4th rounder who played only nickle in college but was forced to start at CB, he was set up for failure as a rookie. My take on him is he is an unknown but has potential (particularly at nickle), I think he might even have more potential than McKelvin as an all around corner.

 

I think the main thing is that CB is actually LESS critical in this defense. In Wanny's scheme it was all about the front 4, and good DB coverage (both disappointed). From what we understand about Pettine's system, this is an unconventional pressure defense using the whole front 7 and probably DB's as well to get pressure. In theory the QB's won't have as much time as they did last year (we said this last year too, I know).

 

I think Gilmore is certainly fine at one CB spot. I think McK will be fine if we get consistent pressure on the QB, if not we've seen what happens to him downfield. Expecting him to miraculously develop ball skills down field would be foolish.

 

With those 2 starting and Brooks, WIlliams, Williams, behind him plus Rogers/Butler and the rest of the group, we are fine depth wise IMO. If we wanted to sign a legit starter to compete with McK I'd be fine with that, but I don't think there is anyone out there at this point.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Turbosrrgood

[eball]

Lots of young guys in this group. There's potential, though -- the question is how quickly they reach it (if at all). The huge unknown is how they'll respond to this coaching staff.

[thebandit27]

I agree with the first statement but I'm kind of surprised at the Brooks hate considering he was thrust into a prominent role after suffering a significant injury in his rookie season. He was a 4th rounder who played only nickle in college but was forced to start at CB, he was set up for failure as a rookie. My take on him is he is an unknown but has potential (particularly at nickle), I think he might even have more potential than McKelvin as an all around corner.

 

I think the main thing is that CB is actually LESS critical in this defense. In Wanny's scheme it was all about the front 4, and good DB coverage (both disappointed). From what we understand about Pettine's system, this is an unconventional pressure defense using the whole front 7 and probably DB's as well to get pressure. In theory the QB's won't have as much time as they did last year (we said this last year too, I know).

 

I think Gilmore is certainly fine at one CB spot. I think McK will be fine if we get consistent pressure on the QB, if not we've seen what happens to him downfield. Expecting him to miraculously develop ball skills down field would be foolish.

 

With those 2 starting and Brooks, WIlliams, Williams, behind him plus Rogers/Butler and the rest of the group, we are fine depth wise IMO. If we wanted to sign a legit starter to compete with McK I'd be fine with that, but I don't think there is anyone out there at this point.

 

I certainly think Brooks has potential, and I'm by no means writing him off. I just think that he was overwhelmed last year when forced to play, which is why I gave him a below average grade.

 

I fully expect him to get better, but until he does it on the field, I can't rate him any higher.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking reading his post.

 

agreed. atleast one, if not more than one notch high on every single rating. even if projecting to next year, i think theres a pretty big disconnect between either the evaluation of our talent or perception of what league average is.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

I certainly think Brooks has potential, and I'm by no means writing him off. I just think that he was overwhelmed last year when forced to play, which is why I gave him a below average grade.

 

I fully expect him to get better, but until he does it on the field, I can't rate him any higher.

 

I myself thought Brooks started the season off very strong.....then got hurt...then went on limited IR....and when he came back he wasn't ready.

 

Want to see him with a healthy offseason

[artmalibu]

Too much Cool Aid!!!!!

 

1. Top Notch - Gilmore. I agree he will get better but top notch?

 

 

2. Average to Above Average - McKelvin/Brooks. Two guys that could not hold a starting job on a bad defense, I am hopeful, but above average?????

 

 

3. Average - Rogers/Butler/Robey. Non starters that have done nothing, this is a hopeful group

 

4. Hopefuls - Ellis/Kearney/Heath/Edwards/Rolle. Yes, to make the roster

 

From what we saw last year I think to say average is a stretch. I would like to believe that their is some potential.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Here's a nice article, which outlines the current status of the Bills' CB situation. The link: http://www.buffaloru...g-bets-to-start.

 

I have real concerns about our depth at CB, which is why I bring this issue up. For a defense that plans to be very aggressive, to blitz often, and to cover man to man, it better have some reliable CBs or things aren't going to work out too well.

 

I would categorize our current CB crop as follows:

 

1. Top Notch - Gilmore.

I expect him to just get better and better and for Pettine to match him up with the opposing team's best WR on a regular basis.

 

2. Average to Above Average - McKelvin/Brooks.

If used wisely (i.e. where their skills are best suited) both guys could perform well. McKelvin will likely play outside, while Brooks will likely cover the slot. Both are fast/agile enough to get to the QB on the blitz in Pettine's aggressive scheme.

 

3. Average - Rogers/Butler/Robey.

Rogers is not big enough to play outside and neither is Robey. Both may be well suited for covering the slot however because of their quickness.

Butler is a player that the Bills really like. He will play outside because he has good size. Butler and Robey are both newcomers to keep and eye on because they both could be pleasant surprises.

 

4. Hopefuls - Ellis/Kearney/Heath/Edwards/Rolle.

The Bills' new regime obviously likes the long, lanky, athletic type (i.e. the CB/S hybrid) and these guys fit that roll pretty well. Maybe 1-2 of them will surprise.

 

Note: A. Williams and D. Williams will primarily be safeties in Pettine's scheme, but may be asked to cover various types of receivers at times. Thus, they at least add to the depth of the CB group.

 

Two questions for you.

1. How do you rate our CB group??

2. is there a strong need to add at least one veteran CB after June 1st??

 

Yes to CB, of all the years to not draft one, we switch to a D that's blitz heavy CB dependent thank God Nix is gone.

[Pirate Angel]

If Pettine can generate a pass rush, unlike the ineptitude of Wanny it will greatly improve how well this group plays.

[billsrcursed]

If Pettine can generate a pass rush, unlike the ineptitude of Wanny it will greatly improve how well this group plays.

 

I'm shocked more people haven't spoken to this.

 

these guys have been left out to dry for years with no real blitz schemes.

 

They should be better off not having to cover for 7-10 seconds a down.

[ny33]

Gilmore is, right now, about the 20th-35th best CB in the league.

 

I'd put McKelvin in the 50th-65th range.

 

Brooks is likely in the 100th-115th range.

 

Rogers is, maybe, in the 130th-145th range.

[Dorkington]

If Pettine can generate a pass rush, unlike the ineptitude of Wanny it will greatly improve how well this group plays.

Ding ding ding.

 

If we can get a strong pass rush, and get our CBs to play solid bump coverage, then things will fall into place.