Pettine's defense vs the No huddle

[jaybee]

Mods...I didn't see one, merge or close if needed.

 

From what I've read it appears Pettines D will have a lot of different looks and several different player packages depending on down and distance in large part. A lot of versatility with his scheme.

 

I am really looking forward to what I believe will be a vastly improved unit compared to the vanilla schemes of the last few years.

 

I'm just wondering what you guys think in terms of this defense vs. a no-huddle offense. I am guessing there is more personnel shifts in such a D, and that an efficiently run no huddle could take advantage of it. Much like Kelly did early on in the Bills run. I'm not losing any sleep here, just curious, thats all.

 

I'm sure Pettine has thought of this, of course. I'm also wondering if any of our defensive experts here could offer some words of wisdom on the topic. Thanks.

 

jb

[swnybillsfan]

i'm wondering if a lot of the rotating in and out has more to do with keeping guys fresh than different packages. it seems like i heard pettine say something to the effect of having versatile players on the field that can play multiple positions and line up in multiple spots. it is partly designed to keep the offense uncomfortable and keep them guessing. if this is the case and it is executed effectively, they should be able to contend with any offense, at least until the adjustments are made.

[Matt in KC]

I'm not a defensive expert, but what is the concern about Pettine defense? Why do you think it's more susceptible to a no-huddle offense than any other defense?

 

Sure they're an attacking defense, but they still are going to call plays like any other defense that does anything besides just line up and play the same way every down. (That type of defense = )

 

So the two main advantages of the no-huddle are

1) You don't give the defense a chance to substitute, getting personnel stuck on the field which may not be optimal for down and distance / coach's preference.

2) Conditioning - the defense may have trouble keeping up the pace; the big-guys especially wear down quickly.

 

With Pettine's defense focusing on flexible players that can play many roles, and the up-tempo practices and focus on conditioning, what exactly is the concern?

Edited May 26, 2013 by Matt in KC

[mrags]

i'm wondering if a lot of the rotating in and out has more to do with keeping guys fresh than different packages. it seems like i heard pettine say something to the effect of having versatile players on the field that can play multiple positions and line up in multiple spots. it is partly designed to keep the offense uncomfortable and keep them guessing. if this is the case and it is executed effectively, they should be able to contend with any offense, at least until the adjustments are made.

playing multiple spots will be key. All these guys are possibly interchangeable at different positions.

 

Kyle Williams: DT/DE

Mario Williams: DT/DE/OLB

Marcel Darius: DT/DE

Carrington: DT/ DE/OLB

Anderson: DE/OLB

 

All LBs are movable for the most part.

Scott: S/LB

 

Williams: SS/CB

Brooks: S/CB

 

That's a lot of movement up front.

[NoSaint]

If anything we should be better suited-

 

1) practice daily against an uptempo offense (conditioning and play calls on the fly)

 

2) based on players that are scheme diverse, meaning it keeps the playbook open even if you don't have the exact package you would've chosen.

[The Big Cat]

I share your concern.

 

And personnel shifts without a huddle create more confusion for the D, so I'm not sure how that's a solution?

[Not at the table Karlos]

The D will be practicing against a no huddle all year if they are not prepared for it there's a problem

[swnybillsfan]

playing multiple spots will be key. All these guys are possibly interchangeable at different positions.

 

Kyle Williams: DT/DE

Mario Williams: DT/DE/OLB

Marcel Darius: DT/DE

Carrington: DT/ DE/OLB

Anderson: DE/OLB

 

All LBs are movable for the most part.

Scott: S/LB

 

Williams: SS/CB

Brooks: S/CB

 

That's a lot of movement up front.

this is something that sounds great, but the execution will be the true test. having people that are scheme and position diverse is a wonderful thing but it all hinges on how well they grasp all aspects of what they are being asked to do. from what i have heard coming from the players, they are excited about the philosophy and excited about the coaching staff in general. if these players are truly buying in, then i have confidence that they will be well prepared for what they have to do. and there is a lot of mini camp, training camp, and preseason to go to hone their craft. this is a strange feeling being this excited about a coaching staff.

[mrags]

 

this is something that sounds great, but the execution will be the true test. having people that are scheme and position diverse is a wonderful thing but it all hinges on how well they grasp all aspects of what they are being asked to do. from what i have heard coming from the players, they are excited about the philosophy and excited about the coaching staff in general. if these players are truly buying in, then i have confidence that they will be well prepared for what they have to do. and there is a lot of mini camp, training camp, and preseason to go to hone their craft. this is a strange feeling being this excited about a coaching staff.

i agree with what you say but ill add to this, Kyle has played both DT and DE in both the 3/4 and 4/3. Mario has played DE and OLB in both the 3/4 and 4/3 and played DT in a 4/3. Anderson has played all over the place. Carrington has played all over. Scott has played all over.

 

The fact that this team went from a 4/3 to a 3/4, back to a 4/3 again all within 12 months means this team is very versatile. What you say is true, they still have to execute, but I like our chances.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The D will be practicing against a no huddle all year if they are not prepared for it there's a problem

[NoSaint]

i agree with what you say but ill add to this, Kyle has played both DT and DE in both the 3/4 and 4/3. Mario has played DE and OLB in both the 3/4 and 4/3 and played DT in a 4/3. Anderson has played all over the place. Carrington has played all over. Scott has played all over.

 

The fact that this team went from a 4/3 to a 3/4, back to a 4/3 again all within 12 months means this team is very versatile. What you say is true, they still have to execute, but I like our chances.

 

Really it's not about 34 vs 43 as much as the back 7 in this discussion. Though the front 4 having speed and bulk help them play all 3 downs at any distance. When we play someone like the pats though and they can trot out Hernandez and gronk and alternate between an "and short" heavy look and then hurry to the next play and be 4 wide.... The key will be guys like kiko, duke Williams, and even whipping boys Aaron Williams and Scott to go between coverage and run stuffing assignments.

Edited May 26, 2013 by NoSaint

[swnybillsfan]

i agree with what you say but ill add to this, Kyle has played both DT and DE in both the 3/4 and 4/3. Mario has played DE and OLB in both the 3/4 and 4/3 and played DT in a 4/3. Anderson has played all over the place. Carrington has played all over. Scott has played all over.

 

The fact that this team went from a 4/3 to a 3/4, back to a 4/3 again all within 12 months means this team is very versatile. What you say is true, they still have to execute, but I like our chances.

i just really want to see this defense pound brady's behind into the turf! and i want to see them use their versatility buy hitting him with a variety of players coming from different directions.

[KeisterHollow]

I think the confusion here is the belief that Pettine's "multiple" defense means players being constantly, or often, substituted. Although I'm sure Pettine will use many of his players and play to their strengths, I think his whole MULTIPLE look Defense has more to do with a base formation that can line up in a bunch of different formations USING THE SAME PERSONNEL. Imagine we line up in a 3-4, and then with the same players on the field we line up in a 3-3-5, and then the very next play with the same personnel we line up in a 4-2-5.

 

Therefore, no huddle will not necessarily adversely effect our base defense.

 

How can this be, you might ask? Well, it's in the fact that Pettine will require some of his safeties to be able to play nickel CB duties, and some of his linebackers to play safety duties, and some of his DE's to play OLB.

[jaybee]

Many thanks for the input everybody. A lot of good stuff in response to my original post. Much of which I hadn't thought of. Its been a busy day and I hadn't had a chance to read all of this till now.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think the confusion here is the belief that Pettine's "multiple" defense means players being constantly, or often, substituted. Although I'm sure Pettine will use many of his players and play to their strengths, I think his whole MULTIPLE look Defense has more to do with a base formation that can line up in a bunch of different formations USING THE SAME PERSONNEL. Imagine we line up in a 3-4, and then with the same players on the field we line up in a 3-3-5, and then the very next play with the same personnel we line up in a 4-2-5.

 

Therefore, no huddle will not necessarily adversely effect our base defense.

 

How can this be, you might ask? Well, it's in the fact that Pettine will require some of his safeties to be able to play nickel CB duties, and some of his linebackers to play safety duties, and some of his DE's to play OLB.

 

This is the winner.

[johnnychemo]

 

The fact that this team went from a 4/3 to a 3/4, back to a 4/3 again all within 12 months means this team is very versatile. What you say is true, they still have to execute, but I like our chances.

 

If they were successful at both 4/3 and 3/4, then you could call them versatile. Given the track record, I'd call them terrible. That said, I do hope that better coaching with an eye toward player strengths make for a better defense.

[K-9]

If they were successful at both 4/3 and 3/4, then you could call them versatile. Given the track record, I'd call them terrible. That said, I do hope that better coaching with an eye toward player strengths make for a better defense.

 

Good point and it illustrates just how much talent trumps scheme. Every time. It all starts with having enough good players at key positions. Last time I saw them on the field, I counted 5 legit players on defense. 5. And one of them hasn't re-signed yet. I'm glad Pettine and the players are all excited while running around in shorts. But none of it means much at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[8-8 Forever?]

Mods...I didn't see one, merge or close if needed.

 

From what I've read it appears Pettines D will have a lot of different looks and several different player packages depending on down and distance in large part. A lot of versatility with his scheme.

 

I am really looking forward to what I believe will be a vastly improved unit compared to the vanilla schemes of the last few years.

 

I'm just wondering what you guys think in terms of this defense vs. a no-huddle offense. I am guessing there is more personnel shifts in such a D, and that an efficiently run no huddle could take advantage of it. Much like Kelly did early on in the Bills run. I'm not losing any sleep here, just curious, thats all.

 

I'm sure Pettine has thought of this, of course. I'm also wondering if any of our defensive experts here could offer some words of wisdom on the topic. Thanks.

 

jb

Brady will go no huddle all day in the opener, limiting was Pettine is trying to do with his personnel combos. Bet on it.

[eball]

I think the confusion here is the belief that Pettine's "multiple" defense means players being constantly, or often, substituted. Although I'm sure Pettine will use many of his players and play to their strengths, I think his whole MULTIPLE look Defense has more to do with a base formation that can line up in a bunch of different formations USING THE SAME PERSONNEL. Imagine we line up in a 3-4, and then with the same players on the field we line up in a 3-3-5, and then the very next play with the same personnel we line up in a 4-2-5.

 

Therefore, no huddle will not necessarily adversely effect our base defense.

 

How can this be, you might ask? Well, it's in the fact that Pettine will require some of his safeties to be able to play nickel CB duties, and some of his linebackers to play safety duties, and some of his DE's to play OLB.

 

This was precisely my thought when I read the first post. Nicely stated.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

If he's a good coach he will have them ready for when/if the patriots go no huddle week 1. If he's not then it will show.

 

Also as others pointed out, I've heard a lot more about having versatile players on the field than packages and emphasis on not showing the defensive alignment pre snap. These may actually increase options against a no huddle O.