over-rated and under-rated bands: one man's insober list

[Gugny]

DMB, like other bands are best seen from the lawn, so no one stays in their seats. The lawn is more of a social gathering than an actual show. Tonight I'm going to a show with lawn seats, Postal Service & Ra Ra Riot...I'm more concerned about the food and beverages for the cooler..

I no longer buy lawn seats. You're correct that they are more of a social gathering. However, it's really just a bunch of punks who can't handle their alcohol, acting like idiots and puking everywhere whilst making a ridiculous mess that I need to walk through to get to my inside seat.

 

There was a time when all SPAC lawn seats were $9, standard, for any/every show. Now they're $50 or more. No thanks.

 

And DMB, to me, is comparable to Pearl Jam as far as being over-rated goes. They both made a splash - a legitimate one - with their debut albums. Then it just got old. DMB has real talent - even Dave Matthews, himself. He's a very good guitar player and has a really nice voice. So I'll go on record as saying I think P.J. (no, not you, Poojer) is more over-rated than DMB ... but not by much.

 

Your write-up on Nick Lowe was great and I agree with your ranking.

[Rob's House]

I no longer buy lawn seats. You're correct that they are more of a social gathering. However, it's really just a bunch of punks who can't handle their alcohol, acting like idiots and puking everywhere whilst making a ridiculous mess that I need to walk through to get to my inside seat.

 

There was a time when all SPAC lawn seats were $9, standard, for any/every show. Now they're $50 or more. No thanks.

 

And DMB, to me, is comparable to Pearl Jam as far as being over-rated goes. They both made a splash - a legitimate one - with their debut albums. Then it just got old. DMB has real talent - even Dave Matthews, himself. He's a very good guitar player and has a really nice voice. So I'll go on record as saying I think P.J. (no, not you, Poojer) is more over-rated than DMB ... but not by much.

 

Your write-up on Nick Lowe was great and I agree with your ranking.

 

DMB is always an interesting topic to me because they were a local band in my hometown when I was in high school and then blew up immediately after, so I've always had a bit different perpective on them. I think it's fair to say they're talented, but not in a substantial way. They have a lot of songs that are catchy when you first hear them, but after a dozen or so times the magic's gone.

 

And to answer JW's question, Ants Marching is what launched them - catchy little song that was great the 3rd - 8th times you hear it and not much after.

 

I also miss the regular shoutbox declarations of DMB's suckitude.

[The Poojer]

Flood Zone, Thursday nights!!!

 

 

 

DMB is always an interesting topic to me because they were a local band in my hometown when I was in high school and then blew up immediately after, so I've always had a bit different perpective on them. I think it's fair to say they're talented, but not in a substantial way. They have a lot of songs that are catchy when you first hear them, but after a dozen or so times the magic's gone.

 

And to answer JW's question, Ants Marching is what launched them - catchy little song that was great the 3rd - 8th times you hear it and not much after.

 

I also miss the regular shoutbox declarations of DMB's suckitude.

[Rob's House]

Flood Zone, Thursday nights!!!

I meant to give you a nod in that post. I remembered you were around for that.

[The Poojer]

Hey Bluefire, if i am not careful I am gonna start liking this 'electronica' stuff. granted you are probably more into the 'real' stuff where as i am getting into the more popular stuff. But I went and saw Postal Service last night and I really really enjoyed them, never thought it would be my type of music, but in the past year i have seen and thoroughly enjoyed bands like Skillrex, Django Django, Thomas Dolby and now Postal Service....it's pretty infectious music

 

Big Gigantic is awesome. I saw them in January on Holy Ship.

[4merper4mer]

Any updates on this?

[The Poojer]

Nope, Jethro Tull and Led Zepplin are both still overrated

 

Any updates on this?

[KD in CA]

Any updates on this?

 

It's like the NBA finals. You have to wait six days for the next game.

[Kevin]

Nope, Jethro Tull and Led Zepplin are both still overrated

 

Finally the voice of reason!

 

Don't forget, Chef can't cook.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Kevin

[Delete This Account]

let's get this over with

Over-rated No. 1: The White Stripes

 

hard as Jack White might try to save rock and roll and elicit a long-lost sound, he fails at nearly every step with an over-bearing ego and heavy touch that blots and smudges essentially everything he gets his hands on. this Zepplin wannabe, this self-ascribed "raconteur" has difficulty getting out of his own way with an all-to-smart and smug approach. yeah, i get it. you like, hard rock, Jack, but must you remind us with every wilty vocal and off-key bridge?

 

you really, really want to root for him to succeed, and then you wind up wondering what all this muck is about and supposed to mean.

 

sure, the Stripes have had their moments. "Icky Thump," rocks with a threatening desperation, as does "Screwdriver," and there's a soft beauty to "300 MPH ..."

 

and then you have to slog through all the self-absorbed hoo-haw in which White proceeds to go on and on to show you how smart he is. from the first song off the Stripes first album, "Jimmy the Explorer" to "St. James Infirmary Blues." and you go on through the entire playlist to find as many duds -- "Conquest" and his off-key, cloying remake of "Jolene." must we continue to discover that Jack will attempt to amaze with his attempts to do it all, and then disappoint us in proving that he can't.

 

and all the while you're listening, it's difficult to surpress the desire to pick up a Led Zeppelin album and wonder whether Jimmy and Co. didn't do it all better?

 

prolific as he is, White''s agenda is overly ambitious to such an extent that it pokes holes in his talent. that was particularly and peculiarly apparent on White's over-bearing touch in producing and contributing to Loretta Lynn's album, "Van Lear Rose." the record succeeds because of Lynn, and despite White, who seems to consider himself Loretta's equal by attempting to infuse his sound throughout the record.

that is so unlike what Rick Rubin did in staying mostly behind the scenes while nurturing Johnny Cash's final albums and forays into rock and roll.

in Lynn's case, White seems to be pushing her down the path and nearly off the cliff.

 

and must country music and Nashville, in specific, embarrass itself further in its want to be recognized as "important" and "hip" by awarding White the title of "Nashville Music City Ambassador." really?

 

much of the same can be said regarding White's countless side projects. the Raconteurs come off as forced, a heavier Matchbox 20.

 

The Dead Weather, as i've mentioned previously, pales in comparison to much of what the Kills have to offer.

 

i get he's good, but too often too good for his own sake to the degree that whatever message he's trying to make gets muddled in his own self-absorbance.

 

what White needs more is the occasional intervention than further accolades.

 

 

 

 

Under-rated No. 1: The Drive-By Truckers

no band over this past decade has done more in carrying the rock and roll torch of American-rooted music than the DBTs. period.

and yet no band has been left in the shadowy fringes more than them either. they've hardly rated more than a mention in most traditional publications despite being critically acclaimed. it's a juxtaposition i have difficulty comprehending.

 

having obtained their early influences from southern rock acts, including and especially Skynyrd, the Truckers have evolved into a complete band that produces its own sound, drawing also upon Memphis rhythm and blues and country. they're lineup has boasted as many as four top-notch song-writers at one time, a luxury few bands have rarely had. and it's why the Truckers have proven capable and comfortable in blowing your socks off with such sharp rockers as "Nine Bullets" or "Shut Up and Get on the Plane," to soft country ballads of "Box of Spiders" and Space City -- i dare you not to be moved by that song upon first to 20th listen -- to quirky, off-beat odes to degenerates, from "Dead Drunk and Naked," and "The Night GG Allin Came to Town."

 

they're storytellers at heart, and fronted by the yin and yang duo of Patterson Hood and the very under-rated Mike Cooley.

 

from their ranks, they've spawned Jason Isbell, an under-rated artist in his own right, and his former wife Shonna Tucker.

 

it's Patterson and Cooley, though, who founded the band and have maintained its focus throughout.

 

start with "Pizza Deliverance" and move on up to "Blessing and a Curse." and when you get to "Brighter Than Creation's Dark," give Ghost to Most a listen, because it's as perfect a song as you're going to hear. thing is, the Truckers have many of them. and yet few, from what i can gather, have ever heard of them.

 

they, like many on this list of under-rated acts, deserve more. far more.

 

jw

Edited June 20, 2013 by john wawrow

[RuntheDamnBall]

I really like the Truckers, jw, and they are also a great live band.

 

The most under-rated band I can think of is Centro-matic. Great hooks, sneaky harmonies, Americana with an edge.

 

I also think Wilco are carving out a pretty great legacy in their third act. I didn't really care for Wilco ( The Album) but have found something to enjoy in all the rest. And Nels Cline is an insanely good guitar player being used the right way.

 

DMB is like the hippie Kenny G. Meant to not be offensive, technically sound playing, but really bland... wallpaper for dormitories.

 

Oh, and Vampire Weekend have to be the most overrated band going at the moment.

[Gugny]

You name the White Stripes as overrated, but then make a case for Jack White to be overrated. Two different things. It's my opinion that all White Stripes music is phenomenal and I'd go so far to say underrated. Their first three albums, "White Stripes," "De Stijl," and "White Blood Cells," are a nice combination of blues (acoustic and electric), punk rock, rock-n-roll and even a touch of metal.

 

Yes, the Led Zeppelin influence shows ... but it's far from imitation and certainly not "wannabe," by any means.

 

I find their sound to be original, exciting, unique and having a healthy dose of arrogance that makes me respect it even more.

 

Jack White as a writer, singer, producer, guitarist ... personally, I think he's got a lot of talent. I think he's one of the most talented, currently active, musical minds. I wouldn't call him underrated, but I wouldn't call him overrated, either.

 

If your claim is that White, himself, is overrated, I can respectfully accept/understand it, but still disagree.

If your claim is that the White Stripes, as a band/duo, are overrated, I'd respectfully call you nuts!!

[Delete This Account]

You name the White Stripes as overrated, but then make a case for Jack White to be overrated. Two different things. It's my opinion that all White Stripes music is phenomenal and I'd go so far to say underrated. Their first three albums, "White Stripes," "De Stijl," and "White Blood Cells," are a nice combination of blues (acoustic and electric), punk rock, rock-n-roll and even a touch of metal.

 

Yes, the Led Zeppelin influence shows ... but it's far from imitation and certainly not "wannabe," by any means.

 

I find their sound to be original, exciting, unique and having a healthy dose of arrogance that makes me respect it even more.

 

Jack White as a writer, singer, producer, guitarist ... personally, I think he's got a lot of talent. I think he's one of the most talented, currently active, musical minds. I wouldn't call him underrated, but I wouldn't call him overrated, either.

 

If your claim is that White, himself, is overrated, I can respectfully accept/understand it, but still disagree.

If your claim is that the White Stripes, as a band/duo, are overrated, I'd respectfully call you nuts!!

 

that's fair, because as i was writing it, and as you can see, i take more umbrage with Jack than the actual band. too late to change it now, but your point is noted and well taken.

 

jw

 

ADD: the trouble is, White is the frontman to the Stripes and responsible for it's sound to a large degree, thus rendering them -- because of him -- as over-rated in my book.

 

gotta run, as this took way too long than i anticipated this a.m.

Edited June 20, 2013 by john wawrow

[Gugny]

that's fair, because as i was writing it, and as you can see, i take more umbrage with Jack than the actual band. too late to change it now, but your point is noted and well taken.

 

jw

 

ADD: the trouble is, White is the frontman to the Stripes and responsible for it's sound to a large degree, thus rendering them -- because of him -- as over-rated in my book.

 

gotta run, as this took way too long than i anticipated this a.m.

You make a good point, as well. I will respectfully disagree with you. Love me some Stripes!!!

[The Poojer]

i have said all along I have had a hard time becoming a fan of the white stripes for the reasons jw so eloquently pointed out...and again, i am going to make the leap to Jack White as my reasoning...he tries too hard to do something different each time. By all accounts and from my uninformed opinion, he is uber-talented and i think he is trying to make rock & roll relevant. But I have a hard time with him as the cheshire cat, stick with something, then move on...don't move on constantly. I am trying to listen to them and get past this feeling and i really do enjoy their/his music, i just have a hard time looking past my image.

 

That said, DBT are really a treasure to american rock and roll music and I enjoy just about everything they do, and their live shows are so frigging dynamic. Patterson Hood is doing a fabulous job, too bad we couldn't see Hood & Jason Isbell co-exist for longer than they did, but it seems to be working out for both as Isbell conquers his demons his already incredible musicianship is now taking on a whole new feeling...

 

You make a good point, as well. I will respectfully disagree with you. Love me some Stripes!!!

[NoSaint]

I really like the Truckers, jw, and they are also a great live band.

 

The most under-rated band I can think of is Centro-matic. Great hooks, sneaky harmonies, Americana with an edge.

 

I also think Wilco are carving out a pretty great legacy in their third act. I didn't really care for Wilco ( The Album) but have found something to enjoy in all the rest. And Nels Cline is an insanely good guitar player being used the right way.

 

DMB is like the hippie Kenny G. Meant to not be offensive, technically sound playing, but really bland... wallpaper for dormitories.

 

Oh, and Vampire Weekend have to be the most overrated band going at the moment.

 

im a huge DBT fan, and i think JW nailed his write up. theyve been an odd one to follow through the years - always getting a lot of critical acclaim, but at the same time nearly no support from the mainstream. its a shame. theyve created some great music, and i am curious to see what they come up with next with Shonna and John leaving. word is studio time is lined up for august.

 

centromatic is a good one - actually was introduced to them by the truckers on a short tour they did together a few years ago. patterson had just tore up his hand and one of the centromatic members picked up his duties admirably.

 

will johnson really is a HUGELY underrated songwriter not just with centro, but his solo stuff, with south san gabriel, and now check out overseas.... theres a ton of volume that hes outputting but a lot of it is really good stuff.

 

Here - ill add this to the will johnson/centromatic.... will johnson is so under-appreciated that when he tours as a solo headliner, he plays in living rooms at peoples houses and still often will have a hard time selling out all the dates. Not his best song, by any means, but illustrates a point as far as underrated goes by setting alone.

 

Edited June 20, 2013 by NoSaint

[Chef Jim]

Nope, Jethro Tull and Led Zepplin are both still overrated

 

And the Stones. Don't forget about the Stones

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fred and Wilma

[Buftex]

 

 

Fred and Wilma

 

Dino is their dinosaur, his heads in the kitchen, his tales out the door...

 

i have said all along I have had a hard time becoming a fan of the white stripes for the reasons jw so eloquently pointed out...and again, i am going to make the leap to Jack White as my reasoning...he tries too hard to do something different each time. By all accounts and from my uninformed opinion, he is uber-talented and i think he is trying to make rock & roll relevant. But I have a hard time with him as the cheshire cat, stick with something, then move on...don't move on constantly. I am trying to listen to them and get past this feeling and i really do enjoy their/his music, i just have a hard time looking past my image.

 

 

Poojer...you nailed it, on the head...that is my problem with so many of the big acts in rock/alternative music over the last 10-15 years...every time I think I like one of them, they put a new album out that sounds completely different than the one I liked...almost like a different artist sometimes. I can appreciate a natural progession in a bands sound, but more often than not, it sounds like a self-conscious, or forced attempt to buck expectations... I just can't think of a lot of acts in rock/alternative (I hate those labels, but my opinion on this isn't the same for other genres of music) from the last 20 years that have more than a record or two that I really like. It's been ages since I heard a new band where I felt I had to own everything they do.

 

let's get this over with

Over-rated No. 1: The White Stripes

 

hard as Jack White might try to save rock and roll and elicit a long-lost sound, he fails at nearly every step with an over-bearing ego and heavy touch that blots and smudges essentially everything he gets his hands on. this Zepplin wannabe, this self-ascribed "raconteur" has difficulty getting out of his own way with an all-to-smart and smug approach. yeah, i get it. you like, hard rock, Jack, but must you remind us with every wilty vocal and off-key bridge?

 

you really, really want to root for him to succeed, and then you wind up wondering what all this muck is about and supposed to mean.

 

sure, the Stripes have had their moments. "Icky Thump," rocks with a threatening desperation, as does "Screwdriver," and there's a soft beauty to "300 MPH ..."

 

and then you have to slog through all the self-absorbed hoo-haw in which White proceeds to go on and on to show you how smart he is. from the first song off the Stripes first album, "Jimmy the Explorer" to "St. James Infirmary Blues." and you go on through the entire playlist to find as many duds -- "Conquest" and his off-key, cloying remake of "Jolene." must we continue to discover that Jack will attempt to amaze with his attempts to do it all, and then disappoint us in proving that he can't.

 

and all the while you're listening, it's difficult to surpress the desire to pick up a Led Zeppelin album and wonder whether Jimmy and Co. didn't do it all better?

 

prolific as he is, White''s agenda is overly ambitious to such an extent that it pokes holes in his talent. that was particularly and peculiarly apparent on White's over-bearing touch in producing and contributing to Loretta Lynn's album, "Van Lear Rose." the record succeeds because of Lynn, and despite White, who seems to consider himself Loretta's equal by attempting to infuse his sound throughout the record.

that is so unlike what Rick Rubin did in staying mostly behind the scenes while nurturing Johnny Cash's final albums and forays into rock and roll.

in Lynn's case, White seems to be pushing her down the path and nearly off the cliff.

 

 

jw

 

Good call on the "Van Lear Rose"...I thought it was a horrendously awful record...and not because of Loretta Lynn. I feel the same away about almost anything that Daniel Lanois or Jeff Lynne produce. It is their record, the featured artist is just along for the ride. Lanois, IMO, destroyed Emmylou Harris...even when he isn't sculpting her albums any more, she can't shake his stench.

[Delete This Account]

a few notes as we close this out.

-- this all was borne out over beers with my good friend Jerry Sullivan. we were having a discussion regarding over-rated bands, when it segued into under-rated bands. i stumbled home and penciled out a list that mostly held up through this.

 

-- one casualty off the under-rated list was The Jam. i took them off when it seemed that side of the list was getting bogged down with too many 1970s British acts: T-Rex, English Beat and eventually Nick Lowe. i felt that era was well represented, especially with The Cramps also in the mix. went with P**ssy Riot in that spot.

 

-- and yes, i had Rush on the over-rated list, but took it off out of respect to its hard-core fan-base. though i question whether Rush deserved to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ahead of what i felt were more deserving artists (Nick Lowe in particular), there's no begrudging the fact that Rush has maintained its relevance over the years, fairing much better than a lot of other acts over that span. and it's not that they're well-known throughout America, thus rendering them not over-rated, just some band that i once was a fan of and no longer.

 

-- in updating the first post with the final addition, i noted that i have an album or have seen in concert at least every act on both over- and under-rated lists with the exception of Coldplay.

 

-- i chose under- and over-rated rather than great or bad. few of the over-rated acts do i actually loathe. in fact, i was a big fan of Green Day until their foray into Broadway. and as a youngster i was a huge fan of Genesis before that interest waned. of the acts i truly have no time for are Coldplay, Dave Matthews Band and Radiohead, a band that truly makes me angry for its over-bearing pretention. in retrospect, shoulda put them first.

 

-- essentially, though, envisioning some bizzarro world perhaps, i put out a list in which i felt the under-rated bands deserved to be regarded as highly as the over-rated ones.

 

-- other under-rated honorable mentions: Mike Doughty. Alex Chilton (who bore a common bond with numerous acts, from The Cramps to the 'Mats, and could draw comparisons as to being America's T-Rex) and Ryan Adams. funny, i initially had Sly and The Family Stone on my under-rated list before realizing to my surprise they had in fact been inducted into the Hall of Fame. as much as i wanted to include them because i still felt they were under-rated, i couldn't in good conscience include them.

 

-- at one point, i toyed with replacing Steve Earle at No. 4 with a bunch of under-rated members of popular bands. i had a list all made out that included Stewart Copeland (the heart and soul of the Police), Lindsay Buckingham (an under-rated guitar player in his own right proven by the solo he performs on "Go Your Own Way"), Mike Campbell (Petty) and Brian May (Queen).

 

-- still not really sure what Chef Jim's agenda was here. if he wanted to make a list, have him have at it. as for Kevin, i thought he was more unctuous in playing the role of Chef's lapdog, while lacking the hint of a thought to call his own.

 

Good call on the "Van Lear Rose"...I thought it was a horrendously awful record...and not because of Loretta Lynn. I feel the same away about almost anything that Daniel Lanois or Jeff Lynne produce. It is their record, the featured artist is just along for the ride. Lanois, IMO, destroyed Emmylou Harris...even when he isn't sculpting her albums any more, she can't shake his stench.

 

yeah, i never really understood the falling and fawning over lanois' supposed brilliance. he's as over-rated as they come. as for Lynne, i can appreciate what he did in writing some exceptionally good pop songs with ELO that i've come to enjoy and appreciate more in my older years. and yet ... with the exception of giving Roy Orbison a nod, i was never sure of the traveling wilbury's, and thought it was one of several low points for Lynn and Petty, with whom i've had a love and hate relationship with.

 

jw

Edited June 21, 2013 by john wawrow

[The Poojer]

jw, as much as these types of discussions can become contentious, they are fun to see what other people listen to. I am always amazed at the number of people here that are dream theater fans, personally while I may have heard of them, i don't think i have ever heard them, but there is a group here that are hardcore fans, and it inspires me to go out and see what i am missing. And while i may disagree with some of the labels you put on bands(under rated, over rated) it gives me persepective that I may not have considered. You aren't going to change my mind on bands that I love to listen to that you 'loathe'(ie DMB, Coldplay) I appreciate and completely get your disdain. Music is such an important element in my life as well as others and its fun and healthy to engage in these kinds of discussions, even if they do get somewhat snippy at times, its what being a fan is all about.

 

a few notes as we close this out.

-- this all was borne out over beers with my good friend Jerry Sullivan. we were having a discussion regarding over-rated bands, when it segued into under-rated bands. i stumbled home and penciled out a list that mostly held up through this.

 

-- one casualty off the under-rated list was The Jam. i took them off when it seemed that side of the list was getting bogged down with too many 1970s British acts: T-Rex, English Beat and eventually Nick Lowe. i felt that era was well represented, especially with The Cramps also in the mix. went with P**ssy Riot in that spot.

 

-- and yes, i had Rush on the over-rated list, but took it off out of respect to its hard-core fan-base. though i question whether Rush deserved to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ahead of what i felt were more deserving artists (Nick Lowe in particular), there's no begrudging the fact that Rush has maintained its relevance over the years, fairing much better than a lot of other acts over that span. and it's not that they're well-known throughout America, thus rendering them not over-rated, just some band that i once was a fan of and no longer.

 

-- in updating the first post with the final addition, i noted that i have an album or have seen in concert at least every act on both over- and under-rated lists with the exception of Coldplay.

 

-- i chose under- and over-rated rather than great or bad. few of the over-rated acts do i actually loathe. in fact, i was a big fan of Green Day until their foray into Broadway. and as a youngster i was a huge fan of Genesis before that interest waned. of the acts i truly have no time for are Coldplay, Dave Matthews Band and Radiohead, a band that truly makes me angry for its over-bearing pretention. in retrospect, shoulda put them first.

 

-- essentially, though, envisioning some bizzarro world perhaps, i put out a list in which i felt the under-rated bands deserved to be regarded as highly as the over-rated ones.

 

-- other under-rated honorable mentions: Mike Doughty. Alex Chilton (who bore a common bond with numerous acts, from The Cramps to the 'Mats, and could draw comparisons as to being America's T-Rex) and Ryan Adams. funny, i initially had Sly and The Family Stone on my under-rated list before realizing to my surprise they had in fact been inducted into the Hall of Fame. as much as i wanted to include them because i still felt they were under-rated, i couldn't in good conscience include them.

 

-- at one point, i toyed with replacing Steve Earle at No. 4 with a bunch of under-rated members of popular bands. i had a list all made out that included Stewart Copeland (the heart and soul of the Police), Lindsay Buckingham (an under-rated guitar player in his own right proven by the solo he performs on "Go Your Own Way"), Mike Campbell (Petty) and Brian May (Queen).

 

-- still not really sure what Chef Jim's agenda was here. if he wanted to make a list, have him have at it. as for Kevin, i thought he was more unctuous in playing the role of Chef's lapdog, while lacking the hint of a thought to call his own.

 

 

 

yeah, i never really understood the falling and fawning over lanois' supposed brilliance. he's as over-rated as they come. as for Lynne, i can appreciate what he did in writing some exceptionally good pop songs with ELO that i've come to enjoy and appreciate more in my older years. and yet ... with the exception of giving Roy Orbison a nod, i was never sure of the traveling wilbury's, and thought it was one of several low points for Lynn and Petty, with whom i've had a love and hate relationship with.

 

jw