Would anyone prefer to keep Fat Pat over Jonas?

[BuffaloinAtlanta]

Phat Pat for me as well. Cost is the key factor and the belief that a solid DL rotation is harder to find than a backup to Price or a OL starter on the cheap. Jonas will get top 15 tackle money from the Falcons and that is way too much to pay to "False Start"

[AKC]

Phat Pat for me as well.   Cost is the key factor and the belief that a solid DL rotation is harder to find than a backup to Price or a OL starter on the cheap.   Jonas will get top 15 tackle money from the Falcons and that is way too much to pay to  "False Start"

201758[/snapback]

 

Speakin' of the birds- how has Garza been developing in the interior line? He had very good fundamental athleticism coming out, I figured he'd stay at OC in the pros but the Falcons have used him at OG- has he gotten big enough to play the Guard spot well?

[dry martini]

This is a no-brainer for me, as I seem to have retained my memory of the recent past.

 

Pat Williams.

 

1999: No. 1 defense in league (3rd in yards given up per rushing attempt (YPRA)). Wade's 3-4, with Mt. Ted, or SS Washington or what have you, dominating the middle, ably spelled by young Pat, with occasional 4 man front with the two phatties. Also, we had a decent right end if memory serves.

 

2000: No. 3 defense in league (4th in YPRA). Same as above, but with even more phattie double teams, which as I recall, was simply thrilling to watch. Nothing got through. No drop off when Wiley steps in. Could it have something to do with the DTs.

 

2001: No. 21 defense in league. Bye-bye Ted. I was absolutely gutted when Ted was not resigned. Not surprisingly, poor Pat couldn't do it alone. 24th in league in YPRA. Was painful to watch given what we had come to expect. Admittedly, we also lost Wiley, but then he turned out to be a bit of a .... Ted, meanwhile, helped the Chi-town D go from 10th to 4th in YPRA and a 13-3 turnaround. Hell, even Wiley got selected to the PB. How would you feel seeing Pat get the nod next year as a member of (insert team name here). During the off-season, this board was overwhelmed with cries of "get Pat some help, sign big Sam." Then, following Sam's signing with Oakland, "well, he was a mercenary anyway, we have some young talent on the rise who might do the trick."

 

2002: No. 15 defense in league. Even with the switch to 4-3 full time, gave up too much up the middle as we remained 24th in YPRA. Poor Pat needed some help. Who is available in the draft, cause that young talent doesn't seem to be stepping up to the plate. Wait a minute, what's this ... Sam wants out of Oakland!

 

2003: No. 2 defense in league. 5th in YPRA. Hmmm. Oh yeah, some old buddy of Pat Williams joined him on a 4-man line. Reminiscent of the experimental Ted-Pat experience during the Wade years, except this was no experiment. Yeah, the offense didn't do their share, but it was a lot more fun to watch with the defense playing well.

 

2004: No. 2 defense in league. 3rd in YPRA. Pat + Sam = SMACK. Need I say more. Although the offense once again came up short, they have a lot of the tools in place, and showed signs of greatness, even with Drew's shortcomings. Because we have a run-first attitude, transitioning a new LT should be a bit easier.

 

I've always like Jonas, but the overall value in this discussion goes to Pat. A strong run defense can keep you in games long enough to give your offense, no matter how poorly protected on the left, a chance to do something, especially with a running game. But an ineffective rush defense will keep your offense off the field, end of.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

On the other hand Edwards was for the most part very impressive in his role as a passing down gap splitter. How that translates to duty in the 1st and 2nd and long defense remains to be seen, the one thing for sure is that Krumrie had him going in the right direction all season.

 

201750[/snapback]

 

I think many folks jump to the conclusion that a plauer excelling as a bacl-up means he is an excellent player who will also excell as a starter. It would be easier if this were the case but it is not. For some reason this seems to particular true on the DL where apparently there is just a big difference between the intensity and the force of will which can allow a player to perform well and some players can bring it all the time but others really only be able to do this a few times a game.

 

Sean Price, a Bill DE of a few years ago was a case in point, He seemed to be pretty much unblockable in a reserve role. He had a handful of sacks but only appeared in a handfull of plays. When the Bills thrust him in as a starter when GW foolishly moved us to a 4-3 from a 3-4 at the same time we were losing Wiley to FA, Big Ted as a cap casualty, Hansen retired the next year and we had lost Bruce the year before. Price was simply unable to rush with the same reckless abandon as a starter he used as a reserve since he had to last the whole game and mind his gap responsiilities and other aspects of full time DL play that are different than when you come in a pass rush specialist on a 3rd down when the opposing QB will almost certainly pass.

 

I think Edwards stunk his first year, marginally improved his second year and I was pleased when we no longer had to use him as a starter because he didn't produce. I was pleasantly surprised by his good performance in a reserve role this year, but he is not one I think we should count on at all as a starter until he proves it some more.