Doug Marrone- Best Hope in a Bills Coach Since Chuck Knox?

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

doug is next Parcells, just give him time......

[jethro_tull]

doug is next Parcells, just give him time......

Bill Polian endorsed Marrone to any team that would listen. Polian has been following Marrone since his high school days in the Bronx. Polian is an alum of the Academy Marronne attended.

 

Wade Phillips was a reasonable head coach. Had work before Buffalo, had work after. If I had to bet money on it, he will get another HC gig before he retires. The guy is a tremendous NFL Coordinator, with lots of experience.

 

I'm also a large proponent of the idea that Marv was a great(est) leader of men, who was a mediocre coach, with a HoF roster

Agreed for the most part. Levy was good if not very good. Keeping that team focused enough to see four straight title games says it all.

In hindsight he probably delegated too much and lacked the capability to draw elite game plans- also not a rigid enough disciplinarian.

[thewildrabbit]

How many college coaches that bombed in the NFL had prior NFL coaching experience? I believe the odds of success increase when a successful college coach comes to the NFL having coached there before in some capacity.

 

Seems like there is no substitute for experience (for the most part) when it comes to repeatably successful NFL coaches and especially coaches who have won championships.

Without researching it Nick Saban first comes to mind as he worked under Bill Belichick in Cleveland. He wasn't just a position coach either, he was the defensive coordinator.

 

Then looking at Saban's storied history of winning in college. First at Michigan st, 34-24-1. Then LSU,48-16, Then Miami Dolphins, 15-17. Alabama 68-13, it is kind of amazing he didn't win in the NFL. But then he got the wrong advice from the Dolphins team doctors, and took Dante Culpepper over Drew Brees.

 

Lets not forget that Chan Gailey also had previous winning NFL experience as the HC of the Dallas Cowboys with all the SB stars still on the team, Aikman, Smith, Irvin. Plus he was the position coach for the Bronco's, OC for the Steelers , OC for the Chiefs.

 

 

All we as Bills fans can do is hope Marrone is more like Harbaugh those others that failed in the NFL

[Mango]

I also never really understood the "failure" of Saban in the NFL. He took a 4-12 team and made them a 9-7 team. Then had a decision to make, take Culpepper a QB off a knee injury, or Brees a QB off of a shoulder injury. At the time Culpepper seemed like the logical choice. For God's sake, the guy started Joey Harrington and Cleo Lemon and still won 6 games. Had they pulled the trigger on Brees instead, I am sure his story would be much different.

 

If I where an NFL GM I would roll the dice with Saban again, assuming he doesn't bail on you again.

[BADOLBILZ]

Bill Polian endorsed Marrone to any team that would listen. Polian has been following Marrone since his high school days in the Bronx. Polian is an alum of the Academy Marronne attended.

 

 

Agreed for the most part. Levy was good if not very good. Keeping that team focused enough to see four straight title games says it all.

In hindsight he probably delegated too much and lacked the capability to draw elite game plans- also not a rigid enough disciplinarian.

 

Bill Polian also adamantly endorsed the Bills hiring of Dick Jauron. I believe he once said that if he hadn't hired Tony Dungy to replace Jim Mora that Dick Jauron would have been the choice. Polian was a very successful GM and by virtue of making the right choice between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf and not trading the rights to Jim Kelly(though I am told he wanted to) he will someday be in the HOF.........but he was ultra-stubborn and had a weakness for malleable coaches and that's why his resume includes just one Lombardi trophy.

 

Polian had the timing as a football GM that Phil Jackson had as an NBA head coach......but Polian wasn't a finisher. Being told that the Bills needed to improve a position seemed to strengthen his resolve to not make improvements to that position. Hence the reason the Bills had a 260 pound nose tackle named Jeff Wright and the great gazoo at free safety...but otherwise the best roster in the NFL. He botched the window between SB XXV and XXVII and it never opened up that big again. Perhaps if he had known that free agency was looming he would have felt a greater sense of urgency and swung a trade or two the way he had done earlier in the Bills development when they acquired Leonard Smith. But he didn't, and Dallas and Washington used the veteran route to bolster their rosters and ultimately beat the Bills in the SB. A prime example being Dallas acquiring Charles Haley. That put them over the hump. The Bills weren't really willing to take that chance once they had reached the SB once. The Bills of the early 1990's were a lot like the Oakland A's of the early 1970's in that there really was no immediate end in sight to their winning until free agency unraveled them.

 

I think his eye for talent was better than most but he was very stubborn and it's hard to hold yourself accountable when you aren't willing to accept that you make mistakes and work to improve them.

[Mango]

 

 

Bill Polian also adamantly endorsed the Bills hiring of Dick Jauron. I believe he once said that if he hadn't hired Tony Dungy to replace Jim Mora that Dick Jauron would have been the choice. Polian was a very successful GM and by virtue of making the right choice between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf and not trading the rights to Jim Kelly(though I am told he wanted to) he will someday be in the HOF.........but he was ultra-stubborn and had a weakness for malleable coaches and that's why his resume includes just one Lombardi trophy.

 

Polian had the timing as a football GM that Phil Jackson had as an NBA head coach......but Polian wasn't a finisher. Being told that the Bills needed to improve a position seemed to strengthen his resolve to not make improvements to that position. Hence the reason the Bills had a 260 pound nose tackle named Jeff Wright and the great gazoo at free safety...but otherwise the best roster in the NFL. He botched the window between SB XXV and XXVII and it never opened up that big again. Perhaps if he had known that free agency was looming he would have felt a greater sense of urgency and swung a trade or two the way he had done earlier in the Bills development when they acquired Leonard Smith. But he didn't, and Dallas and Washington used the veteran route to bolster their rosters and ultimately beat the Bills in the SB. A prime example being Dallas acquiring Charles Haley. That put them over the hump. The Bills weren't really willing to take that chance once they had reached the SB once. The Bills of the early 1990's were a lot like the Oakland A's of the early 1970's in that there really was no immediate end in sight to their winning until free agency unraveled them.

 

I think his eye for talent was better than most but he was very stubborn and it's hard to hold yourself accountable when you aren't willing to accept that you make mistakes and work to improve them.

 

Marrone doesn't seem like a Polian hire at all. His track record doesn't really include hard nosed outspoken characters. Polian likes guys he can control not guys that have their own sense system and plans.

[BADOLBILZ]

Marrone doesn't seem like a Polian hire at all. His track record doesn't really include hard nosed outspoken characters. Polian likes guys he can control not guys that have their own sense system and plans.

 

Precisely. Which I find encouraging.

[jethro_tull]

Bill Polian also adamantly endorsed the Bills hiring of Dick Jauron. I believe he once said that if he hadn't hired Tony Dungy to replace Jim Mora that Dick Jauron would have been the choice. Polian was a very successful GM and by virtue of making the right choice between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf and not trading the rights to Jim Kelly(though I am told he wanted to) he will someday be in the HOF.........but he was ultra-stubborn and had a weakness for malleable coaches and that's why his resume includes just one Lombardi trophy.

 

Polian had the timing as a football GM that Phil Jackson had as an NBA head coach......but Polian wasn't a finisher. Being told that the Bills needed to improve a position seemed to strengthen his resolve to not make improvements to that position. Hence the reason the Bills had a 260 pound nose tackle named Jeff Wright and the great gazoo at free safety...but otherwise the best roster in the NFL. He botched the window between SB XXV and XXVII and it never opened up that big again. Perhaps if he had known that free agency was looming he would have felt a greater sense of urgency and swung a trade or two the way he had done earlier in the Bills development when they acquired Leonard Smith. But he didn't, and Dallas and Washington used the veteran route to bolster their rosters and ultimately beat the Bills in the SB. A prime example being Dallas acquiring Charles Haley. That put them over the hump. The Bills weren't really willing to take that chance once they had reached the SB once. The Bills of the early 1990's were a lot like the Oakland A's of the early 1970's in that there really was no immediate end in sight to their winning until free agency unraveled them.

 

I think his eye for talent was better than most but he was very stubborn and it's hard to hold yourself accountable when you aren't willing to accept that you make mistakes and work to improve them.

Interesting and factual take on Mr. Polian. We've been so starved for a quality GM I guess he was on the pedestal.

I know Marv Levy was adamant about hiring Jauron having cited that his relative lack of success at Chicago was due to bad personnel. While true, the fault behind that logic is a need to see someone demonstrate success regardless of circumstances- do whatever it takes to field a winner. No more hiring people with excuses.

So Polian wanted Jauron, a guy with no clue about offense, a guy who was 35 and 45 over (4) years at Chicago including finishing up with back to back 4 and 12 seasons- and a fluke winning season that resulted in a horrible showing at a one-and-done playoff? Polian is clearly off the pedestal.

 

I also never really understood the "failure" of Saban in the NFL. He took a 4-12 team and made them a 9-7 team. Then had a decision to make, take Culpepper a QB off a knee injury, or Brees a QB off of a shoulder injury. At the time Culpepper seemed like the logical choice. For God's sake, the guy started Joey Harrington and Cleo Lemon and still won 6 games. Had they pulled the trigger on Brees instead, I am sure his story would be much different.

 

If I where an NFL GM I would roll the dice with Saban again, assuming he doesn't bail on you again.

Absolutely agree with this. I'm betting that conditions at Miami may not have been to his liking.

[JohnC]

Bill Polian also adamantly endorsed the Bills hiring of Dick Jauron. I believe he once said that if he hadn't hired Tony Dungy to replace Jim Mora that Dick Jauron would have been the choice. Polian was a very successful GM and by virtue of making the right choice between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf and not trading the rights to Jim Kelly(though I am told he wanted to) he will someday be in the HOF.........but he was ultra-stubborn and had a weakness for malleable coaches and that's why his resume includes just one Lombardi trophy.

 

Polian had the timing as a football GM that Phil Jackson had as an NBA head coach......but Polian wasn't a finisher. Being told that the Bills needed to improve a position seemed to strengthen his resolve to not make improvements to that position. Hence the reason the Bills had a 260 pound nose tackle named Jeff Wright and the great gazoo at free safety...but otherwise the best roster in the NFL. He botched the window between SB XXV and XXVII and it never opened up that big again. Perhaps if he had known that free agency was looming he would have felt a greater sense of urgency and swung a trade or two the way he had done earlier in the Bills development when they acquired Leonard Smith. But he didn't, and Dallas and Washington used the veteran route to bolster their rosters and ultimately beat the Bills in the SB. A prime example being Dallas acquiring Charles Haley. That put them over the hump. The Bills weren't really willing to take that chance once they had reached the SB once. The Bills of the early 1990's were a lot like the Oakland A's of the early 1970's in that there really was no immediate end in sight to their winning until free agency unraveled them.

 

I think his eye for talent was better than most but he was very stubborn and it's hard to hold yourself accountable when you aren't willing to accept that you make mistakes and work to improve them.

 

There was a back story to the Polian era. He was constantly battling Littman and fighting for more flexibility and less restraint from the money side of the operation. . Were there player transactions that he would have wanted to make to get the Bills over the hump? I believe so.

 

Polian is far from being an angel. His combative style can become very troublesome in an organizational setting. The owner got tired of the battles between the combustable Polian and his financial guardian of the business, Littman. The owner simply got tired of the rambunctious GM and his challenging behavior. After the Polian saga John Butler took over the football operation. Eventually, he also got worn down by the constant internal battles with the business side of the franchise.

 

There is no doubt that Polian has some very negative personal traits. Has he made mistakes in guiding the franchises he has been involved with? Absolutely. But his overall record at all of his stops (Colts, Bills and Panthers) has been superb, especially compared to the franchise he left in western NY.

[offyourocker]

Not since 1982 when Chuck Knox could not negotiate a new contract with the Bills and left to become the Seahawk's head coach have the Bills had a head coach who was not fired by previous teams or proven not to be NFL head coaching material.

It could possibly be argued that Mike Mularkey is NFL head coaching material- clinging to his position with the Jaguars- but with a .333 career record and coming off a 2 and 14 season- he is in the margin.

That's 31 years since such a hire.

 

1983- 1985 Kay Stephenson. Did not return as an NFL head coach.

1985- 1986 Hank Bullough. Did not return as an NFL head coach.

1986- 1997 Marv Levy. Fired by Kansas City before joining the Bills.

1998- 2000 Wade Phillips. Fired by Denver before joining the Bills.

2001- 2003 Greg Williams. Did not return as an NFL head coach.

2004- 2005 Mike Mularkey. Did not re-sign with the Bills, poor head coaching record.

2006- 2009 Dick Jauron. Fired by Chicago before joining the Bills.

2010- 2012 Chan Gailey. Fired by Dallas and Georgia Tech en route to the Bills.

 

Granted Marv and Wade are very good NFL coaches but an argument could be made that they underachieved with the player talent they had available to them and miss out on the highest level of NFL coaching hierarchy. But the rest clearly were poor NFL head coaches. Also granted that there is no guarantee that Doug Marrone will prove to be a successful NFL head coach.

However, it is refreshing and encouraging for the Bills to be off to a new start with a successful college level head coach with NFL experience who has written his own ticket to date.

 

It is healthy to be excited about a new season but pluuuuease

[Nuncha]

Marv Levy was pretty good....?? I'd say "hopefully" best coach since Wade Philips....the last cocach to get us to the post season. It is WAY too early to tell. lol!

[BRAWNDO]

Not sure if this has been posted but I love Marrone's confidence while speaking to fans in Rochester.

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 17 May

Was totally WOWED by #Bills coach Doug Marrone today here in #roc. Told players "the least we're gonna do is make the playoffs" #billsmafia

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 17 May

Marrone also said these are "not the same old BB, things have changed." This organization has an energy I haven't seen in ages #billsmafia

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 17 May

Coach Marrone did 20 minute power point on his vision for team. Off the charts energy! This is gonna be a fun season #billsmafia #roc

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 17 May

Coach Marrone quote from today in message to rookies: "Don't let anyone give you #?!* for being a Bill #billsmafia pic.twitter.com/3wEwx8AqLM

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 18 May

The #Bills Sept 8 season opener vs. Patriots is sold out! Coach Marrone yesterday: "our offense will be up tempo, attack-style." #billsmafia

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 18 May

Bills rooks at #nfl rookie premiere. Marrone told guys: "stay together, out of trouble and don't let anyone give ya *?!# about being a BB."

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 12h

After listening to Coach Marrone for 90 minutes Friday, I am convinced he can connect with the players in a way we haven't seen. #billsmafia

 

john_kucko ‏@john_kucko 22m

One last Doug Marrone item from Friday. He said on December 29th at season finale in Foxboro, he fully expects #bills season to NOT be over

Edited May 20, 2013 by BRAWNDO

[San Jose Bills Fan]

How many college coaches that bombed in the NFL had prior NFL coaching experience? I believe the odds of success increase when a successful college coach comes to the NFL having coached there before in some capacity.

 

And FWIW, Marrone has NFL experience as both a player and as a coordinator.

[thewildrabbit]

I also never really understood the "failure" of Saban in the NFL. He took a 4-12 team and made them a 9-7 team. Then had a decision to make, take Culpepper a QB off a knee injury, or Brees a QB off of a shoulder injury. At the time Culpepper seemed like the logical choice. For God's sake, the guy started Joey Harrington and Cleo Lemon and still won 6 games. Had they pulled the trigger on Brees instead, I am sure his story would be much different.

 

If I where an NFL GM I would roll the dice with Saban again, assuming he doesn't bail on you again.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda....After all It is the choices that HC's make on QB's that define their careers. Pittsburgh HC Bill Cowher was such a great HC that he could win, and get to the playoffs with different scrubs behind center. Although It wasn't until the Steelers drafted Big Ben that he actually won a SB.

 

So many head coaches sink or swim with the QB's they select. Chan Gailey clearly chose the wrong QB with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Wade Phillips chose Rob Johnson over Flutie. Some head coaches never find their QB's and with only a 2-3 year window to find and develop one... they need to be right the first time.

 

Doug Marrone was clearly dealt EJ by Doug Whaley / Buddy Nix. So his career will be defined on how well he and Hackett can develop the rookie QB.

[jethro_tull]

with the dust settled, is the answer yes? for myself at this particilar time the answer is yes- DM is the most hopeful coaching hire since Chuck Knox.

[JuanGuzman]

I wanted Lovie Smith and an OC with a track record of successful running attacks like Norv Turner or Tom Cable. I thought given the Bill's roster that combination might be good enough for a wild card birth this year. But then again I thought Wanny's track record of success as a DC was going to help us this year.

 

But I agree with the general sentiment that Marrone has more upside than a re-tread and I like some of the early stuff I have read about him.. If DM turns out to be the next Mike McCarthy or Sean Payton than the organization hit it out of the park.

 

Hackett as the OC kind of scares me though, i understand that he was/is young and was not in a position of control his last time around with the Bills (and our personnelle sucked) but dear god I still have nightmares about that that Turk Schoenert, Alex, Van-Pelt, Hackett offesnive scheme.

[thewildrabbit]

I wanted Lovie Smith and an OC with a track record of successful running attacks like Norv Turner or Tom Cable. I thought given the Bill's roster that combination might be good enough for a wild card birth this year. But then again I thought Wanny's track record of success as a DC was going to help us this year.

 

But I agree with the general sentiment that Marrone has more upside than a re-tread and I like some of the early stuff I have read about him.. If DM turns out to be the next Mike McCarthy or Sean Payton than the organization hit it out of the park.

 

Hackett as the OC kind of scares me though, i understand that he was/is young and was not in a position of control his last time around with the Bills (and our personnelle sucked) but dear god I still have nightmares about that that Turk Schoenert, Alex, Van-Pelt, Hackett offesnive scheme.

The OCC doesn't actually do much coaching afaik, all he does is breakdown film and help with the game plans. I wouldn't blame Hackett for "Jauron the moron", and his lousy offensive schemes. Besides he only worked for the bills one year (2008-2009)

 

Rememeber Jauron is the same moron who fired his OC Turk Schonert two weeks before the season started and then promoted the QB coach AVP to new OC. Then Jauron wanted to run the no huddle and when starting RT Langston Walker couldn't get to the line fast enough, so he was cut! This all happening just two weeks before the season opener, and thus leaving the Bills with a new inexperienced OC and backup RT. The new no huddle offense was scrapped after a few weeks....as was Jauron after 9 games.

[Chandler#81]

Tom Landry was fired. He sucked.

 

But before that, he was DC for the G-Men in their '50's heyday. Allie Sherman was HC and arguably had the best gig in NFL history. Landry was D Co-ordinator and some guy named Lombardi coached his offense.

[jethro_tull]

But before that, he was DC for the G-Men in their '50's heyday. Allie Sherman was HC and arguably had the best gig in NFL history. Landry was D Co-ordinator and some guy named Lombardi coached his offense.

but he was not fired before he won a super bowl. only 6 previously fired coaches have ever won a super bowl. you don't want a fired coach running your team!

[8-8 Forever?]

The first Bills head coach to win a Super Bowl will no doubt be considered the BEST head coach in Bills History. The difference between Doug Marrone and all the other head coaches in Bills history thus far: Doug has yet to prove he's incapable of such a feat; likewise, the reverse is true. We'll have to wait and see, but I know I like Doug Marrone's attitude and coaching staff, and I like the players we have on this roster, and the schemes we're purported to run. So far, I'm happier with this hire than with any hire for head coach I can remember. We'll see where it goes.

I don't know... Greg Shiano (sp?) in Tampa did the rah rah high intensity otas and camp and he team burned out the last half of a 16 game season ... he is approaching differently this season... will Marrone do the same thing ? hope not as he has beenin teh league..

 

But- How many fired coaches have won a championship- answer- relatively few.

 

Of the (28) head coaches to win a Suoer Bowl, only (6) were fired as head coach by a previous NFL team

 

6 out of 28 is ~ 21 percent, or only (1) out of (5).

 

Which means the nearly EIGHTY PERCENT of coaches were not fired by a team before they won a championship.

the reality is this franchise gets the leftovers of everything , front office, coaches , players... its f ing Buffalo, for crying out loud. It's reputation as a place where careers go to die is well established (if not deserved). Just the way it is, until a few winning seasons are put together and long term ownership is in place. they will get there. eventually . in L.A.