Doug Marrone- Best Hope in a Bills Coach Since Chuck Knox?

[thewildrabbit]

I'm on record with this in other places, but hiring another retread (yes, I know Lovie has had success, but he's a retread) who only can manage one side of the ball is so "old school" and it's exciting to see the Bills moving in a progressive direction. Nothing about Marrone thus far tells me he's a guy who can't handle being the "CEO" of the team. What do Cam Cameron and Rod Marinelli have in common? Both, again, are guys totally fixated on one side of the ball, who had never enjoyed any sort of success as HC at the pro or major college level. Cameron was 18-37 in 5 seasons at Indiana, and Marinelli was a 1st time HC. Marrone, on the other hand, took a Syracuse program that was in the toilet and brought them back to respectability with two bowl winning seasons.

While I can see why Brandon didn't hire Lovie Smith. I can also see why so many thought he would be the logical choice due to his actual "wanting" to be the HC in Buffalo. A top proven winning NFL HC wanting the Bills HCing job, which is something that didn't even come close to happening in 2010.

 

While I agree that Lovie Smith is a retread, he is also a retread with a winning record in a tough division, and he did this with mostly scrubs for QB's and bad offensive coordinators. That in itself is a very astounding feat in my view as most HC's only get 3 years to find that elite QB or they up getting canned.

 

The reason for Lovie's success is that Bears defense, it has been their mainstay under Lovie, and he is one of the few who have made that Tampa 2 defense into one of the best in the league for several years. Unlike Jauron, who never found the proper LBers to run his scheme, and spent countless draft picks on DB's, 10 DB's drafted in four years.

 

 

Anyway, this FO was looking for a different direction and they certinly went that way. I hope it works out.

[JuanGuzman]

The reason for Lovie's success is that Bears defense, it has been their mainstay under Lovie, and he is one of the few who have made that Tampa 2 defense into one of the best in the league for several years. Unlike Jauron, who never found the proper LBers to run his scheme, and spent countless draft picks on DB's, 10 DB's drafted in four years.

 

Anyway, this FO was looking for a different direction and they certinly went that way. I hope it works out.

 

Part of the reason I was on board with Lovie was I thought the Bill's D-line was well suited to play the Tampa 2. I think Dareus and a Healthy Kyle Williams are well suited to be "gap penetrating" DTs, Alex Crrington as well. Mario Williams could be our julius peppers and Mark Anderson is a capable pass rushing end.

 

Not a perfect fit but I thought the bills defensive group was better suited to tampa 2 than to a 3-4. Way down the list of pros I also totally thought Gil Byrd would come with Lovie and make it easier to resign Jarius Byrd

[jethro_tull]

I'm on record with this in other places, but hiring another retread (yes, I know Lovie has had success, but he's a retread) who only can manage one side of the ball is so "old school" and it's exciting to see the Bills moving in a progressive direction. Nothing about Marrone thus far tells me he's a guy who can't handle being the "CEO" of the team. What do Cam Cameron and Rod Marinelli have in common? Both, again, are guys totally fixated on one side of the ball, who had never enjoyed any sort of success as HC at the pro or major college level. Cameron was 18-37 in 5 seasons at Indiana, and Marinelli was a 1st time HC. Marrone, on the other hand, took a Syracuse program that was in the toilet and brought them back to respectability with two bowl winning seasons.

 

I'm very familiar with Lovie and actually wanted him to get fired long before the season was over just so the Bills would have a chance. He had worn out his welcome in Chicago- and unfairly so IMHO- but the long since mature fan lynch mob finally had enough momentum.

I knew if the Bills hired Smith they would become competitive in short order.

Yet in the back of my mind I knew he did not have what it takes to win a championship. Intelligent, reserved, professional and loyal - too a fault if you are a coach in the NFL.

After the Bills hired DM I was not disappointed but yet a little concerned. Since then and after reading and hearing what he has done and has to say- DM is the coach and there is no looking back- and I am not regretting that the Bills did not hire Lovie.

The fact that Smith was a defensive biased coach with no significant offensive minded contacts in a league where offense rules the land was the reason that he had no serious offers and remains unempoyed to date.

[ganesh]

Maybe best hope since Marv Levy. While we all remember the 4 straight losses in the big dance, do we easily forget that the team then had the best regular season record of any team in football? At the end of the day, I'm just happy to see the team go a different route than the cast off/retread/has been. New coaches equals lots of new energy and optimism.

 

The best hope since Levy was his immediate successor, Wade Phillips. However, he couldn't get over the hump.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Part of the reason I was on board with Lovie was I thought the Bill's D-line was well suited to play the Tampa 2. I think Dareus and a Healthy Kyle Williams are well suited to be "gap penetrating" DTs, Alex Crrington as well. Mario Williams could be our julius peppers and Mark Anderson is a capable pass rushing end.

 

Not a perfect fit but I thought the bills defensive group was better suited to tampa 2 than to a 3-4. Way down the list of pros I also totally thought Gil Byrd would come with Lovie and make it easier to resign Jarius Byrd

 

Sound thinking.

[thewildrabbit]

Part of the reason I was on board with Lovie was I thought the Bill's D-line was well suited to play the Tampa 2. I think Dareus and a Healthy Kyle Williams are well suited to be "gap penetrating" DTs, Alex Crrington as well. Mario Williams could be our julius peppers and Mark Anderson is a capable pass rushing end.

 

Not a perfect fit but I thought the bills defensive group was better suited to tampa 2 than to a 3-4. Way down the list of pros I also totally thought Gil Byrd would come with Lovie and make it easier to resign Jarius Byrd

I first gave that a thought and then remembered the defense has been fuxxed with by George Edwards and his 3-4, then by Wannstooge and his 4-3. Meanwhile Buddy Nix drafting players to fit multiple schemes over the last three years.

 

I think the Bills FO (Brandon) had seen enough of Jauron's Tampa 2 to hate it as much as most Bills fans do. The Buffalo Bills scouting dept had four years to find players to fit that scheme and failed miserably. Another reason in my view to NOT hire Lovie Smith.

[jethro_tull]

While I can see why Brandon didn't hire Lovie Smith. I can also see why so many thought he would be the logical choice due to his actual "wanting" to be the HC in Buffalo. A top proven winning NFL HC wanting the Bills HCing job, which is something that didn't even come close to happening in 2010.

 

While I agree that Lovie Smith is a retread, he is also a retread with a winning record in a tough division, and he did this with mostly scrubs for QB's and bad offensive coordinators. That in itself is a very astounding feat in my view as most HC's only get 3 years to find that elite QB or they up getting canned.

 

The reason for Lovie's success is that Bears defense, it has been their mainstay under Lovie, and he is one of the few who have made that Tampa 2 defense into one of the best in the league for several years. Unlike Jauron, who never found the proper LBers to run his scheme, and spent countless draft picks on DB's, 10 DB's drafted in four years.

 

 

Anyway, this FO was looking for a different direction and they certinly went that way. I hope it works out.

 

Not that a new coach has to have players available to meet his system but good points nonetheless. Lovie's version of the 4-3 requires a LB who can do it all- run stuffing, blitzing and coverage. Luckily for him the bears had (2) of these players (Briggs and Urlacher) and the Bills have a void in this area. Seems like we may have dodged a bullet.

[jethro_tull]

On the other side of the coin is Marc Trestman the new Bear's coach. The guy had multiple stints at the NFL assistant level with more teams than you can mention and winds up a grey cup winner with montreal of the CFL so i guess you could say he is a successful college coach with NFL experience.

he's being touted in chicago as the "anti-lovie" bringing his cerebral approach and offensive guru status credentials via his pass happy ways in the 3-down 110 yard league.

i gotta say this could be extremely interesting to watch and bears GM phil emery will either look like a genius or fall flat on his face.

the problem is that chicago is an impatient town with a predominantly old school football mentality and it could get ugly to an extreme degree before the trestman era has a chance to succeed.

Edited May 25, 2013 by jethro_tull

[8-8 Forever?]

2013-present Doug Marrone. Zero experience as a NFL head coach. 25-25 in a weak college conference.

 

How in any way does does this hire remotely resemble Chuck Knox?

Yeah. Hard to get excited about Marrone on paper. Lets just wait and see. Maybe he's another Harbaugh. Probably not, but lets see. Not a lot to be excited about right now. Bad team coming off a very bad season with personnel that do not look to be much of an NFL-level upgrade from last season. It's a restart, plain and simple.. heck the guy likely to start at QB is a raw rookie who is being taught proper footwork right now. Yikes.

[eball]

For those saying Marrone is unlikely to be another Jim Harbaugh, consider this -- Harbaugh's record as HC at Stanford over four years was 29-21, which sounds pretty good, right? The first three years he was 17-20, and then a QB you might have heard of helped his 4th team go 12-1.

 

Stanford as a program was light years ahead of where Syracuse sat when Marrone took over. I'm thinking 25-25 with a couple of bowl wins ain't too shabby.

 

Bottom line -- some are excited about Marrone, some wanted Chip Kelly or an NFL retread. To each his own. Who's right? We'll soon find out.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

For those saying Marrone is unlikely to be another Jim Harbaugh, consider this -- Harbaugh's record as HC at Stanford over four years was 29-21, which sounds pretty good, right? The first three years he was 17-20, and then a QB you might have heard of helped his 4th team go 12-1.

 

Stanford as a program was light years ahead of where Syracuse sat when Marrone took over. I'm thinking 25-25 with a couple of bowl wins ain't too shabby.

 

Bottom line -- some are excited about Marrone, some wanted Chip Kelly or an NFL retread. To each his own. Who's right? We'll soon find out.

 

But, 29-21 is a marginal winning record….

[jethro_tull]

For those saying Marrone is unlikely to be another Jim Harbaugh, consider this -- Harbaugh's record as HC at Stanford over four years was 29-21, which sounds pretty good, right? The first three years he was 17-20, and then a QB you might have heard of helped his 4th team go 12-1.

 

Stanford as a program was light years ahead of where Syracuse sat when Marrone took over. I'm thinking 25-25 with a couple of bowl wins ain't too shabby.

 

Bottom line -- some are excited about Marrone, some wanted Chip Kelly or an NFL retread. To each his own. Who's right? We'll soon find out.

 

DM finished up 8 and 5 (T-first in DIV) with a bowl victory in his final year.

-

IMHO Chip Kelly stands the most chance to bust. If you watched the Oregon games his offense was ridiculously simple, seems to rely on broken / improvised plays and I have concerns that it will work in the NFL. Most LBs and DBs are too strong and fast.

Also, he has zero NFL experience- tall odds for his making it in the first few years without being sent back to the minors first. I NEVER wanted CK to come to the Bills.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

IMHO Chip Kelly stands the most chance to bust. If you watched the Oregon games his offense was ridiculously simple, seems to rely on broken / improvised plays and I have concerns that it will work in the NFL. Most LBs and DBs are too strong and fast.

Also, he has zero NFL experience- tall odds for his making it in the first few years without being sent back to the minors first. I NEVER wanted CK to come to the Bills.

 

FWIW, Ron Jaworski feels that the offense Kelly ran at Oregon will not work in the NFL. Jaws believes that Kelly will have to change the Oregon offense in order to have NFL success:

 

http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2013/05/22/eagles-wake-up-call-jaws-says-kellys-system-wont-translate/

 

A recent Grantland piece tries to make sense of Kelly's decision to draft Matt Barkley and what that might mean to the Eagles offense.

 

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/60151/what-matt-barkley-and-the-eagles-offseason-say-about-chip-kellys-plans

 

The piece suggests that Kelly is being very open-minded and will adapt as he needs to to survive in the NFL.

 

Another interesting piece to the Chip Kelly discussion is that his coaching staff on offense is very stacked with NFL-experienced coaches (Shurmur, Bicknell, Staley, Lazor, Williams), further evidence that he's not approaching his first season with the attitude that he's an unquestioned authority who already has all the answers.

[3rdand12]

I too was a strong shouter for Lovie , with the right O coordinator. Say chip kelly.

Let me now say this.. Marrone and gang are much fun to keep tabs on , with some " what the hell is going on " tossed in to keep it interesting.

[jethro_tull]

FWIW, Ron Jaworski feels that the offense Kelly ran at Oregon will not work in the NFL. Jaws believes that Kelly will have to change the Oregon offense in order to have NFL success:

 

http://www.phillymag...wont-translate/

 

A recent Grantland piece tries to make sense of Kelly's decision to draft Matt Barkley and what that might mean to the Eagles offense.

 

http://www.grantland...ip-kellys-plans

 

The piece suggests that Kelly is being very open-minded and will adapt as he needs to to survive in the NFL.

 

Another interesting piece to the Chip Kelly discussion is that his coaching staff on offense is very stacked with NFL-experienced coaches (Shurmur, Bicknell, Staley, Lazor, Williams), further evidence that he's not approaching his first season with the attitude that he's an unquestioned authority who already has all the answers.

 

interesting stuff. sounds like there is opinion out there that CK's offense will not work in the NFL and that he agrees with some of it! he may be a very good coach and eventually turn the eagles into a better team than they were but when you read things like the eagles will be a "laboratory for football ideas" it does not iseem to instill confidence. hiring NFL proven coordinators does seems like a smart move though.

[ganesh]

DM finished up 8 and 5 (T-first in DIV) with a bowl victory in his final year.

-

IMHO Chip Kelly stands the most chance to bust. If you watched the Oregon games his offense was ridiculously simple, seems to rely on broken / improvised plays and I have concerns that it will work in the NFL. Most LBs and DBs are too strong and fast.

Also, he has zero NFL experience- tall odds for his making it in the first few years without being sent back to the minors first. I NEVER wanted CK to come to the Bills.

 

And he doesn't yet have his 'own' QB. He is being pushed to give Michael Vick another chance. This was a big reason why Spurrier and other guys failed in the NFL. They did not have the luxury of a winning QB for their NFL program.

[thewildrabbit]

And he doesn't yet have his 'own' QB. He is being pushed to give Michael Vick another chance. This was a big reason why Spurrier and other guys failed in the NFL. They did not have the luxury of a winning QB for their NFL program.

From my perspective that is what helped Chuck Knox make the playoffs so quickly with the Bills as he already had a decent, but not great QB in Joe Ferguson. Knox was a proven winner as a head coach in the NFL before he was hired by the Bills, and because of the lack of "elite" talent at the QB position in all his NFL teams he never made it to the super bowl.

 

 

Not trying to knock the new Bills coach...but the odds of him having success in Buffalo are so stacked against him its unreal. Doug Marrone not only has the difficulty of building a winning program out of a franchise with a history of thirteen years of losing in the NFL. Which is something that even experienced ex NFL players, and assistant NFL coaches with history of winning fail to succeed in accomplishing. The Bills play against arguably the very best head coach in the league in Bill Belichick 2x a year. In the Bills recent past, Not Gregg Williams. Not Mike Mularkey. Not Dick Jauron. Not Chan Gailey, and some of them even hired decent assistant coaches.

 

Marrone not only has to turn around a losing NFL program with the team, he also needs to develop a rookie QB which can easily take 3-5 years on an already good team.

 

 

In case you guys missed it, Jim Harbaugh was not only a first round pick for the Chicago Bears in 1987. He played QB, starter / backup in the NFL for fourteen years, for the Bears, Colts, Ravens, Chargers, Lions, Panthers. (1987-2001)

Then in 1994 he took a job as an assistant coach at the college level in Western Kentucky and stayed for eight years. Spent two years as QB coach for the Raiders. Went back to college and was the head coach at San Diego for 3 years (29-6), then to Stanford for 4 years (29-21). 17 years as a coach BEFORE he took the job with the 49ers and has 2 years there under his belt.

 

But then look at his years at Stanford. He took over a program from Walt Harris (5-6 to 1-11) So Harbaugh took over a 1-11 team! In 2007 he went 4-8. In 2008 he went 5-7. in 2009 he went 8-5 (same as Marrone) In 2010 he went 12-1.His only loss was to Oregon that year, a team that was undefeated. It was the first 11 win season in the history of the school, and went on to beat VT in the Orange Bowl . Harbaugh also developed QB Andrew Luck who turned out to be the #1 overall pick in 2012.

 

So because of the success of Jim Harbaugh with the 49ers a few teams were interested in going the college route this year. Oregon's Chip Kelly who went to the Eagles and Syracuse's Doug Marrone were the only two afaik. Notre Dame's Brian Kelly as well as Penn state's Bill O'Brien also drew interest.

 

 

In my view Doug Marrone has a monumental task in front of him. All I can do is hope he is up to this task and is given the three years Nix gave Gailey.

[jethro_tull]

From my perspective that is what helped Chuck Knox make the playoffs so quickly with the Bills as he already had a decent, but not great QB in Joe Ferguson. Knox was a proven winner as a head coach in the NFL before he was hired by the Bills, and because of the lack of "elite" talent at the QB position in all his NFL teams he never made it to the super bowl.

 

 

Not trying to knock the new Bills coach...but the odds of him having success in Buffalo are so stacked against him its unreal. Doug Marrone not only has the difficulty of building a winning program out of a franchise with a history of thirteen years of losing in the NFL. Which is something that even experienced ex NFL players, and assistant NFL coaches with history of winning fail to succeed in accomplishing. The Bills play against arguably the very best head coach in the league in Bill Belichick 2x a year. In the Bills recent past, Not Gregg Williams. Not Mike Mularkey. Not Dick Jauron. Not Chan Gailey, and some of them even hired decent assistant coaches.

 

Marrone not only has to turn around a losing NFL program with the team, he also needs to develop a rookie QB which can easily take 3-5 years on an already good team.

 

 

In case you guys missed it, Jim Harbaugh was not only a first round pick for the Chicago Bears in 1987. He played QB, starter / backup in the NFL for fourteen years, for the Bears, Colts, Ravens, Chargers, Lions, Panthers. (1987-2001)

Then in 1994 he took a job as an assistant coach at the college level in Western Kentucky and stayed for eight years. Spent two years as QB coach for the Raiders. Went back to college and was the head coach at San Diego for 3 years (29-6), then to Stanford for 4 years (29-21). 17 years as a coach BEFORE he took the job with the 49ers and has 2 years there under his belt.

 

But then look at his years at Stanford. He took over a program from Walt Harris (5-6 to 1-11) So Harbaugh took over a 1-11 team! In 2007 he went 4-8. In 2008 he went 5-7. in 2009 he went 8-5 (same as Marrone) In 2010 he went 12-1.His only loss was to Oregon that year, a team that was undefeated. It was the first 11 win season in the history of the school, and went on to beat VT in the Orange Bowl . Harbaugh also developed QB Andrew Luck who turned out to be the #1 overall pick in 2012.

 

So because of the success of Jim Harbaugh with the 49ers a few teams were interested in going the college route this year. Oregon's Chip Kelly who went to the Eagles and Syracuse's Doug Marrone were the only two afaik. Notre Dame's Brian Kelly as well as Penn state's Bill O'Brien also drew interest.

 

 

In my view Doug Marrone has a monumental task in front of him. All I can do is hope he is up to this task and is given the three years Nix gave Gailey.

Harbaugh's record is impressive. He must have been motivated by Mike Ditka's B-slapping!

Marrone's record, while not nearly as extensive as Harbaugh's seems to show he is ready- confident and aggressive if nothing else- which usually go hand in hand with success.

 

3 year lettereman as an OL at Syracuse University

2 years NFL playing experience

1 year overseas pro football

9 years ass't college coaching

8 years NFL ass't coaching

4 years head college coach

 

The thing I like most is his aggressive over achievement attitude, style and confidence. Qualities you want in a head NFL coach.

I look at the challenge ahead of him WRT the Bills culture of losing and I don't see it being that daunting. We have to remember just how poor the quarterback situation has been- I've said this for the past (3) years that if the Bills had a top (10) QB they would be a bad playoff team. I'm not expecting miracles- this is going to take some time- but I believe (for the first time in a long time) that the ingredients are in place- coaching and talent- to build a team to make a run. They have the keys- let them drive for a few years- give them some rope.

Edited May 26, 2013 by jethro_tull

[Cowgirl]

The best hope since Levy was his immediate successor, Wade Phillips. However, he couldn't get over the hump.

 

'The hump' = Rob Johnson?? Seriously.......he should've started Doug Flutie in the 'Music City Nightmare'...............

[Cowgirl]

I'm diggin' Marrone hard. Who else could they have gotten?? There didn't seem to be any takers..........Marrone is young and hungry. This is his big chance. What an opportunity for a young College coach!! I cannot wait to see what he does.

 

Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh had previous NFL experience. This is true. But their most recent jobs before coming back to the NFL were in College.....and Man!!! Look at 'em now!!

 

I'm hoping against hope that Marrone pulls a Harbaugh and turns this franchise around this season. Harbaugh did it his very first year....so it obviously can be done.

 

My buddy Joma said that he felt the Bills entire orginzation got complacent and had a defeatest attitude. It did feel to me as well that even the coaches over the last 10 years didn't really Billieve the Bills could be 'winners'....

 

I'm hoping Marrone can break the spell over this franchise....that they'll have a winning attitude and not accept mediocrity anymore.

 

A team's mindset and expectations can cripple them before the first game if they don't truly believe they can win. I hope Marrone instills confidence in his players. We shall see.............