Bitcoin blow: U.S. government freezes funds of digital currency

[truth on hold]

What does "currency" mean to you?

something when defined narrowly like you did as "paper" represents only a small minority of global commerce.

[unbillievable]

something when defined narrowly like you did as "paper" represents only a small minority of global commerce.

So you're saying that the MAJORITY of currency cannot be turned into paper and coin?

(...and ignoring the fact that I never said that money ONLY moved in paper form)

Edited May 18, 2013 by unbillievable

[truth on hold]

 

So you're saying that the MAJORITY of currency cannot be turned into paper and coin?

(...and ignoring the fact that I never said that money ONLY moved in paper form)

Well if you're now defining currency as bank accounts certainly not at the same time. That's called a "run on banks". But the real question is how much does it matter when using something like Bitcoin?

 

And you sure as heck did equate paper and currency previously, as if that were the ultimate criteria

[unbillievable]

Well if you're now defining currency as bank accounts certainly not at the same time. That's called a "run on banks". But the real question is how much does it matter when using something like Bitcoin?

 

And you sure as heck did equate paper and currency previously, as if that were the ultimate criteria

 

 

You mean paper currency as in coins and bills? If so I'd bet that only represents a relatively small percentage of commerce these days. I get by mostly on cards - debit, credit or vendor - the latter 2 I pay online. No coins or bills ever change hands in the process

You're basing your entire argument on a single word?

 

The use of the word "paper" in my reply was a response to OC's use of "cash" which traditionally refers to "paper" currency; which is why I changed the term to "real" when presenting my FULL argument on the validity of his scheme to include all forms of money. (including bank transfers and such)

 

how did i equate paper and currency being mutually exclusive? Reading comprehension....

Edited May 18, 2013 by unbillievable

[truth on hold]

 

 

 

 

You're basing your entire argument on a single word?

 

The use of the word "paper" in my reply was a response to OC's use of "cash" which traditionally refers to "paper" currency; which is why I changed the term to "real" when presenting my FULL argument on the validity of his scheme to include all forms of money. (including bank transfers and such)

 

how did i equate paper and currency being mutually exclusive? Reading comprehension....

Im referring to your OP before you edited it

Edited May 18, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[unbillievable]

Im referring to your OP before you edited it

 

That still doesn't explain how you figured that I meant currency was only found in paper form. That would be like assuming that OC plans to do large business deals in CASH only.

[OCinBuffalo]

I'm going to the bar, but rest assured, I think this is an interesting discussion, and I will return...just not tonight. (No wawrow behavior here, but I will check, and if he shows up at his appointed time, all bets are off....)

 

I will leave you with this: If I signed up to pay off your credit card every month, relative to the services or goods you rendered to me, or my "exchange", would you care how I did it? Do I need a full blown currency to do that, or just access to your credit card?

 

The vehicle is not the issue here, and my "bank" actually isn't a bank in the traditional sense. It's in Belize, so Tom's regulator point is marginal at best. And really I just said that to make it easier to start with. This "bank" could be a sum of parts deal whose parts are located all over the place. Many people don't yet understand the cloud. Few people realize it's intended design, and what a properly designed cloud app means/is, but many people run around saying "the cloud". It's the new "windows based" or "mission statement" "win win" etc. I heard that if you say it enough times, it increases your IQ 20 points. But I gotta go....

[truth on hold]

 

 

That still doesn't explain how you figured that I meant currency was only found in paper form. That would be like assuming that OC plans to do large business deals in CASH only.

OK if you say so. I gave an example of how points can be converted to cash anyway, so its not worth arguing.

[unbillievable]

Im referring to your OP before you edited it

The step you're conveniently blowing past is the part about turning Bitcoins (or points) into legitimate paper currency.

Let's look at the sentence you can't understand. I Used two adjectives before currency: "Legitimate" and "paper", implying that there are both "fake" and "non-paper" currencies available. So how the hell did you get the idea that i meant currency HAS to be made of paper?

 

OK if you say so. I gave an example of how points can be converted to cash anyway, so its not worth arguing.

Which proves you're an idiot. I can give examples of how I can convert rocks into cash by selling it as gravel; it doesn't make it currency.

[unbillievable]

I'm going to the bar, but rest assured, I think this is an interesting discussion, and I will return...just not tonight. (No wawrow behavior here, but I will check, and if he shows up at his appointed time, all bets are off.... )

 

I will leave you with this: If I signed up to pay off your credit card every month, relative to the services or goods you rendered to me, or my "exchange", would you care how I did it? Do I need a full blown currency to do that, or just access to your credit card?

 

The vehicle is not the issue here, and my "bank" actually isn't a bank in the traditional sense. It's in Belize, so Tom's regulator point is marginal at best. And really I just said that to make it easier to start with. This "bank" could be a sum of parts deal whose parts are located all over the place. Many people don't yet understand the cloud. Few people realize it's intended design, and what a properly designed cloud app means/is, but many people run around saying "the cloud". It's the new "windows based" or "mission statement" "win win" etc. I heard that if you say it enough times, it increases your IQ 20 points. But I gotta go....

"

 

We understand completely.

You want to go into our credit card account and delete the balance owed, which would be downright stupid if it was issued by your bank, or illegal if issued by another bank.

 

Let's make it simple.

You issue me a credit card

I use it at Walmart

I pay you in some form of "good or service"

You erase my credit card debt

Walmart asks you (the bank) for money

you only have bitcoins

Walmart takes you and me to collections

I sue you for my "goods" back and throw out your worthless credit card.

 

How exactly did your scam work?

[truth on hold]

 

 

Let's look at the sentence you can't understand. I Used two adjectives before currency: "Legitimate" and "paper", implying that there are both "fake" and "non-paper" currencies available. So how the hell did you get the idea that i meant currency HAS to be made of paper?

 

 

Which proves you're an idiot. I can give examples of how I can convert rocks into cash by selling it as gravel; it doesn't make it currency.

Your sentence from the edited post: "You can create all the schemes you want but you will still need someone willing to fork over real currency in exchange for a fake one"

 

I demonstrated there's a possibility it may be the case. That your blanket argument that bitcoin will never be convertible to "real currency" (however you're defining it now) may not be valid

 

Most currency is a confidence game anyway; if people think it has value then it does have value because they will accept it in exchange for goods, services, other currencies, etc. If they think it doesn't have value then it doesn't because they wont accept it. The exception would be where it's backed by gold (or some other precious metal) which the issuing country agreed to exchange it for. But even that's not some panacea, because now those "rocks" that you converted your cash into may be of lesser value than the purchasing power the cash had or has.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[dayman]

Is Bitcoin not basically a scam?

[GG]

And the post I said they could be "transferred" is where again?

 

You alluded to it when you said one minute you have points, the next minute you have dollars. The transfer is implied, because you didn't induce an alchemic reaction to exchange one into another. But, you didn't exchange points into dollars. You needed something else of tangible value for someone to trade with you. Nobody want your points, they're worthless to anyone but you. You first need to find a way to monetize your points by obtaining goods that only you can get, then trade those goods for money.

 

Idiot.

 

Is Bitcoin not basically a scam?

 

No.

 

But as a currency based on nothing but spread of digital networks, its intrinsic value is that of what the market places on it at the time (as Tom alluded, it's not backed by a taxing or military authority that can protect its value) Therefore, it has a lot more in common with a tulip than it does with a dollar. Buyer beware.

[....lybob]

Is Bitcoin not basically a scam?

Not a scam but an interesting experiment that conflicts with the existing establishment and who's outcome is unknown

 

other interesting experiments that conflicted with the existing establishment

 

wiki leaks- crushed

Libya gold dinar- crushed

Iraqi selling oil in Euros- crushed

OWS- crushed

Iranian oil Bourse- in process of being crushed

File sharing - whack a mole warfare

China's currency exchange swaps- Asian pivot

[Just Jack]

Here's one way to use Bitcoins at major stores....

 

1) Load the Gyft app onto your smart phone

 

2) Use Bitcoins to purchase gift cards

 

3) Use those giftcards at stores, or sell them to other people for cash

[TakeYouToTasker]

Not a scam but an interesting experiment that conflicts with the existing establishment and who's outcome is unknown

 

other interesting experiments that conflicted with the existing establishment

 

wiki leaks- crushed

Libya gold dinar- crushed

Iraqi selling oil in Euros- crushed

OWS- crushed

Iranian oil Bourse- in process of being crushed

File sharing - whack a mole warfare

China's currency exchange swaps- Asian pivot

This is the second time you've surprised me with what, on the face of it, appears to be a wildly libertarian worldview.

 

Either stop doing this, or do it more consistantly

[unbillievable]

Here's one way to use Bitcoins at major stores....

 

1) Load the Gyft app onto your smart phone

 

2) Use Bitcoins to purchase gift cards

 

3) Use those giftcards at stores, or sell them to other people for cash

 

That's quite interesting and a good start on making Bitcoins a viable currency.

 

Still need to ask though:

Why would I use dollars to buy bitcoins to buy giftcards that purchase goods in dollars?

[Just Jack]

That's quite interesting and a good start on making Bitcoins a viable currency.

 

Still need to ask though:

Why would I use dollars to buy bitcoins to buy giftcards that purchase goods in dollars?

 

If you're a Bitcoin miner, you didn't use cash to get Bitcoins, you made them.

[OCinBuffalo]

Here's one way to use Bitcoins at major stores....

 

1) Load the Gyft app onto your smart phone

 

2) Use Bitcoins to purchase gift cards

 

3) Use those giftcards at stores, or sell them to other people for cash

That's quite interesting and a good start on making Bitcoins a viable currency.

 

Still need to ask though:

Why would I use dollars to buy bitcoins to buy giftcards that purchase goods in dollars?

If you're a Bitcoin miner, you didn't use cash to get Bitcoins, you made them.

Nice. I've been too busy to give this the proper attention I feel it deserves, but Jack has provided an efficient look at essentially what I was saying. Of course, what I was saying was going to be pedantic and overly complex. It's better for everybody that Jack has intervened.

 

The central point is: Bitcoin doesn't need to be a full blown currency for it to have the desired effect. In fact, the use of Bitcoin in a practical sense, not Bitcoin itself, is probably best defined as what I would call an: integration outcome.

 

You take existing systems, just like Jack described, integrate them with Bitcoin and you still get the desired results, with minimized hassle. We don't live in an SAP, IBM, "everything to everybody" world. Some would question whether we ever did. The bottom line is that integration is how we do things today, and therefore, Bitcoin does NOT need to have a standalone approach to be effective.

 

In fact, and this is hilarious: Talk about a Keynesian approach! The idiot left is driving and creating demand for Bitcoin, that wouldn't otherwise be there. It's not government spending $ Keynesian stimulus, it's government largess, and the ever-expanding ego of the statists...that is ironically simulating Bitcoin demand!

Edited May 22, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[Delete This Account]

references always appreciated. please go on and get drunk.

 

jw

Edited January 11, 2014 by john wawrow