FleaMoulds80 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 I find it comical that he's not considered a number 1. It sounds like some of the posters here that claim he's not a number 1 because he doesn't put up Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson numbers. Andre Reed was a number 1, he should be in the HOF and Stevie is quickly entrenching himself as possibly the best Bills receiver in history. When all is said and done, I have no doubts he will be. True that. Totally agreed. Give Stevie a legit QB and see what kinda stats he puts up. Believe that!
Kirby Jackson Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 I disagree. I think a lot of teams don't have #1 receivers, which is a type more than a simple ranking slot ranging between 1 and 32. A #1 is a guy who consistently beats single coverage, is strong enough to go across the middle and make plays, is acrobatic enough to make the hard catches, runs great routes, and -- most importantly -- is a home run threat on top of all of this. In other words, the guys you need to gameplan against. Johnson is a number of these things, but he's not a home run threat. True #1s are guys like Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, and Steve Smith (in his prime) - big enough to overpower DBs, fast enough to beat guys deep, and strong enough to make the medium range catches and get YAC. (Smith is an outlier here because he's not tall, but he's incredibly strong and athletic.) A younger version is Julio Jones: http://www.pro-footb...J/JoneJu02.htm. The numbers bear it out for those guys. In non-injured years, they get between 1300-1600 yards. Stevie is a very good player, but he's not that guy. Thought that we established earlier in this thread that Stevie over the last couple of years wasn't much different than Fitzgerald? Stevie has 4 more receptions, 1 more TD and 150 yards less. Neither had very good quarterbacking situations so they are better comparisons than a Julio Jones or Steve Smith.
ColdBlueNorth Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Forgive me if this has already been posted -- it's a day old. This blog post by the Miami Herald's Armando Salguero caught my eye. It's about the Dolphins believing they now have the division's best receivers. And it contained this tidbit: "The Bills have Stevie Johnson, a very good No. 2 wide receiver, but they don't have a lot after him and, by the way, they think Johnson is a No. 1." Common eye-roll troll, but another perspective nonetheless. Link A lot of meaningless debate on this thread - there is no way to compare SJ to the likes of Reed or Lofton. Some could say that SJ does not possess high-end speed, neither did Reed, or that he is not a game changer ( I would disagree with that statement as there were plenty of games he did change - but we all have a tendency to remember what will forever be called "the drop" vs the Steelers. Defenses were not as complicated and SJ did not have Jim Kelly throwing to him with Lofton on the other side either so a comparison can never really be made. I think what Stevie has been able to do with so many defenders focusing on shutting him down is nothing short of amazing and it sounds a bit petty to slap a #2 on him because he does not fit a classic mold when he does his thing. What we do know is that the book on SJ has not been finished yet, and if his health holds up he still has a few years and chapters to add before it is done. Maybe then we can argue the merits of his contribution. Someone brought up, and I too have some concerns, that concise timing routes may prove difficult for Stevie. At the end of the day, I am not sure if SJ's route-running was suspect, or Fitzs' passes were just late or behind or too far ahead or bouncing off the turf short. As with most things, it is probably a little of both, but I lean towards Fitz having accuracy issues more often than SJ winging it and not being in the right place. If anything, I am hopeful that he can mentor some of the youngsters on how to allude getting jammed on the line, a feat which SJ excels at.
MarkyMannn Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Good thing for Beebe nobody remembers him dropping TD's vs the Redskins due to . All right I was exaggerating throwing Beebe out there.............how about SJ dropping the TD pass in the end zone in OT against the Steelers. Steelers lose that game they never win the super bowl that year
Lurker Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 That's not quite the same thing and you know it. All quality WRs get on the field as there are 3-4 on each team who see significant action. The same can't be said of QBs when only one starts. Yeah, I threw that out there with a smile. I agree with Dave's definition of a #1 in the post above, however. That description goes well beyond stats, which is all I keep seeing from the Stevie supporters on this thread...
mattsox Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Squishage of the Fishage. Agreed. Who cares about what a Miami writer says? How many Superbowls have they won in the past 10 years now???
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Agreed. Who cares about what a Miami writer says? How many Superbowls have they won in the past 10 years now??? They spent tons of money in free agency trying to make a big marketing splash to get a stadium referendum on the ballot. They were betrayed by one of the big politicos down there and ended up spending millions in lobbying money (not to mention player payroll) in that failed attempt. Football-wise I'm not really crazy about the moves Miami made in free agency. They don't have the all important "ring of shrewdness." Big money for Dannell Ellerbe, Mike Wallace, Brandon Gibson and Dustin Keller? I'm not seeing the return on investment UNLESS Tannehill proves to be the real deal. It wouldn't surprise me if the Fish did a Jets-style flameout.
mrags Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 I also envision a Jets style flame for the Phins in the future.
thebandit27 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 They spent tons of money in free agency trying to make a big marketing splash to get a stadium referendum on the ballot. They were betrayed by one of the big politicos down there and ended up spending millions in lobbying money (not to mention player payroll) in that failed attempt. Football-wise I'm not really crazy about the moves Miami made in free agency. They don't have the all important "ring of shrewdness." Big money for Dannell Ellerbe, Mike Wallace, Brandon Gibson and Dustin Keller? I'm not seeing the return on investment UNLESS Tannehill proves to be the real deal. It wouldn't surprise me if the Fish did a Jets-style flameout. Don't forget about Phillip Wheeler, Lance Louis, Tyson Clabo, Brent Grimes, and that ridiculous contract they gave to Brian Hartline.
mrags Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Don't forget about Phillip Wheeler, Lance Louis, Tyson Clabo, Brent Grimes, and that ridiculous contract they gave to Brian Hartline. isnt Phillip Wheeler the guy in Days of Thunder? So they picked up Cary Elwes? Edited May 15, 2013 by mrags
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 isnt Phillip Wheeler the guy in Days of Thunder? So they picked up Cary Elwes? And wasn't he in "Men in Tights?" So basically the Dolphins threw big money at Peter Pan?
mrags Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 And wasn't he in "Men in Tights?" So basically the Dolphins threw big money at Peter Pan? also the Princess Bride. I wonder what version they got. Is it Wesley? The Dread Pirate Roberts? Or the half dead one that needed Indigo Montoya and Andre the Giant carrying him around. If they get the half dead one, and we get Indigo Montoya, do they also get Carrie and Brody from Homeland since he's in that show too? Awe crap, what if he gets Robert Duvall as Harry to be his Crew Chief. Oh boy, were done for in the division of they have Brody, Carrie, Cary, Wesley, The Dread Pirate Roberts, Robert Duvall and Harry.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 also the Princess Bride. I wonder what version they got. Is it Wesley? The Dread Pirate Roberts? Or the half dead one that needed Indigo Montoya and Andre the Giant carrying him around. If they get the half dead one, and we get Indigo Montoya, do they also get Carrie and Brody from Homeland since he's in that show too? Awe crap, what if he gets Robert Duvall as Harry to be his Crew Chief. Oh boy, were done for in the division of they have Brody, Carrie, Cary, Wesley, The Dread Pirate Roberts, Robert Duvall and Harry. Let's cut to the chase here. At what point do they throw stupid money at Kevin Bacon?
mrags Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Let's cut to the chase here. At what point do they throw stupid money at Kevin Bacon? what the F%#K are you talking about? Your not making any sense.
thebandit27 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Let's cut to the chase here. At what point do they throw stupid money at Kevin Bacon? You are officially on notice for using the terms "stupid" and "bacon" in the same sentence...unless, of course, the sentence is: "You're stupid if you don't like bacon"
Doc Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Miami certainly has the most expensive WR corps in the AFC East, if not the NFL. Whether it's the best remains to be seen.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 You are officially on notice for using the terms "stupid" and "bacon" in the same sentence...unless, of course, the sentence is: "You're stupid if you don't like bacon" What was I thinking? I wasn't…. :wallbash: :wallbash:
PO'14 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Im first and foremost a Bills fan. SJ is obviously talented. However he aint mister clutch by any means! ive said it a year ago, and ill say it again.....If hes on the Bills team, I cheer for him. If hes not on the team, I couldnt care less! Cheers
Dorkington Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 True that. Totally agreed. Give Stevie a legit QB and see what kinda stats he puts up. Believe that! I think SJ was the perfect WR for Fitzpatrick... I'm not sure if he would improve statistically in a vertical offense or not. That's not to say he wouldn't still be awesome and extremely valuable, it's just that he's more of a quick route sort of runner, and there might be a few less of those in the new offense, who knows.
PO'14 Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Stevie will be Stevie. A meaningless stat machine. Fill in other so called Sports heroes here like......Lee Westwood, Monty and Luke Donald, Dan Marino, Alex Ovechkin, etc....You know the kind of players that pad meaningless stats! That is Stevie. Dressing like Chan Gailey at halloween and shooting himself in the leg early in the game for yard 15 penalties. Then dropping easy passes when it counts! Everyone talks how great he played against the Jets. Anyone can run a slant and catch 5 yard passes. Anywho, heres to hoping Kolb, EJ or Tavaris finds the real deal with our young Receiving core! Edited May 15, 2013 by curitiba
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