Ahh priorities...I wonder about us sometimes

[blzrul]

There's not enough money to actually pay enough teachers, or enough good teachers, to get kids to the point where they can pass a standardized test, but they're able to get money to hire someone to investigate cheating. And no doubt that someone will need a staff and pretty soon there's another agency in place, eating up funds and accomplishing nothing in terms of educating children.

 

I certainly don't condone cheating but when FOUR HUNDRED SCHOOLS are cheating on these tests, it makes one wonder. And of course this system is the basis for our national program.

 

This is from today's Dallas Morning News and is reproduced here for those of you who are not registered users:

 

==============================

 

Education agency to review testing security

Monday, January 10, 2005 Posted: 3:21 PM EST (2021 GMT)

 

 

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- The state education agency is launching an effort to catch cheating on standardized tests, officials announced Monday.

 

Officials will hire an outside expert to review security measures and build a tracking system to monitor test scoring irregularities that could signal cheating.

 

"We have zero tolerance for cheating," Texas Education Agency commissioner Shirley Neeley said in a statement released before a news conference.

 

The changes are in response to a Dallas Morning News investigation that found strong evidence that educators at nearly 400 schools statewide helped students cheat on the Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills. The newspaper study identified schools whose test scores swung wildly from poor to stellar.

 

TEA's announcement breaks with a previous policy of trusting districts to police themselves. TEA officials had said they investigated cheating allegations only when a district requested it or when they received credible eyewitness evidence of cheating.

 

Neeley reminded educators of the consequences of cheating on the TAKS test, which could lead to the revocation of a teaching license and up to 10 years in prison since falsifying testing documents is a third-degree felony.

 

"Texas educators understand that cheating on the test can be a career-ending move," Neeley said in the statement.

 

Texas education policies on student accountability became the model for the federal No Child Left Behind law enacted after then-Gov. George W. Bush's election as president in 2000.

[nobody]

There's not enough money to actually pay enough teachers, or enough good teachers, to get kids to the point where they can pass a standardized test...

 

 

 

Actually that is all the govt cares about now - passing standardized tests. It's not about teaching and learning anymore - it's about memorizing enough of the standardized test to be able to say they know something.

[SJ Bills backer]

Actually that is all the govt cares about now - passing standardized tests.  It's not about teaching and learning anymore  - it's about memorizing enough of the standardized test to be able to say they know something.

200798[/snapback]

 

Damn straight - its all about unfunded mandates so that no sheep er I mean child is left behind and can do well on that standardized test.

 

Its even worse for K-12 in CA. We have one of the lowest per student funding of the 50 states and some of the worst performance on tests. And do you know what our beloved Governator wants to do? Tie pay to performance even more closely. And this in a state where there are lots of non-english speaking families.

 

Somehow the state thankfully still has more money for prisons. And you can be sure that the Repubs will hold the line on not raising taxes, this despite a $8B state budget deficit. It could almost be funny watching them try to work out of this if it wasn't so sad.

 

If I didn't have my kids in a good local school that is well supported by the PTO, I'd leave the state.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Damn straight - its all about unfunded mandates so that no sheep er I mean child is left behind and can do well on that standardized test. 

 

Its even worse for K-12 in CA.  We have one of the lowest per student funding of the 50 states and some of the worst performance on tests.  And do you know what our beloved Governator wants to do?  Tie pay to performance even more closely.  And this in a state where there are lots of non-english speaking families. 

 

Somehow the state thankfully still has more money for prisons.  And you can be sure that the Repubs will hold the line on not raising taxes, this despite a $8B state budget deficit.  It could almost be funny watching them try to work out of this if it wasn't so sad. 

 

If I didn't have my kids in a good local school that is well supported by the PTO, I'd leave the state.

200957[/snapback]

 

Sound and fury, signifying nothing. I'll tell you one thing, throwing more money at a problem will never fix it. What needs to happen is the following:

 

1) The teachers unions must be broken and the entitlement/tenure system scrapped.

 

2) School should be year-round.

 

3) Administrators who tolerate underperforming teachers should be stojan-canned.

 

Do these three things and education WILL improve, higher spending or not.

[Terry Tate]

Its even worse for K-12 in CA.  We have one of the lowest per student funding of the 50 states and some of the worst performance on tests.  And do you know what our beloved Governator wants to do?  Tie pay to performance even more closely.  And this in a state where there are lots of non-english speaking families. 

200957[/snapback]

I would imagine there's a lot of difficulties involved in having one of the largest, most diverse populations in the country. According to the NEA's statistics for public schools K-12, CA is:

 

#1 in average public school teacher's salaries

#1 in enrollment

#1 in number of teachers

#4 in student-teacher ratio (state law mandates maximum 20 students per class)

#30 in current expenditures per student (Notes: CA places middle of the pack, with 23 states that spend $7-8k per student - CA's 6.2% increase in the past year is the second-largest in the nation behind VT's 6.7% increase)

#1 in current expenditures

#1 in total expenditures

#1 in total revenues

#2 in total revenues from local govt

#1 in total revenue receipts

 

I'd add that there's probably a pretty wide range of expenditures per student, when areas like SJ are compared with low income agricultural areas such as where I lived when I was there.

 

Anyway, money is important to a certain extent, but the key to student success is not money, it's parental involvement. In my opinion, if kids don't do well, it's not the teacher's fault, it's not the govt's fault - it's the parents' fault.

[DC Tom]

In my opinion, if kids don't do well, it's not the teacher's fault, it's not the govt's fault - it's the parents' fault.

201309[/snapback]

 

Nah, it's Bush's fault. Our kids would be smarter under Kerry.

 

Or maybe it's Bledsoe's fault. One of the two, at any rate.

[Alaska Darin]

Anyway, money is important to a certain extent, but the key to student success is not money, it's parental involvement. In my opinion, if kids don't do well, it's not the teacher's fault, it's not the govt's fault - it's the parents' fault.

201309[/snapback]

Oh, it's the government's fault as well. The government has removed parental power from the relationship in both directions. Zero tolerance & removal of corporal punishment has given the teacher's and students each an out. We don't like the way your kid is behaving - he's suspended. Oh, and you can't do anything about it.

 

Common sense. The ultimate oxymoron.

[Terry Tate]

Oh, it's the government's fault as well.  The government has removed parental power from the relationship in both directions.  Zero tolerance & removal of corporal punishment has given the teacher's and students each an out.  We don't like the way your kid is behaving - he's suspended.  Oh, and you can't do anything about it.

 

Common sense.  The ultimate oxymoron.

201318[/snapback]

I agree to the extent that the govt has made it more difficult for me, but BS like zero tolerance and removal of corporal punishment only emphasizes and increases the need for my involvement. It's difficult to place the blame for this solely on a govt that faces perpetual lawsuits from parents. These changes were CYA moves forced by years of being taken to court.

 

The kids who perform the poorest in school will always be the ones who's parents use school primarily as a babysitter/daycare option.

[RuntheDamnBall]

1) The teachers unions must be broken and the entitlement/tenure system scrapped.

 

2) School should be year-round.

 

3) Administrators who tolerate underperforming teachers should be stojan-canned.

201297[/snapback]

You obviously have no idea what kind of stress teachers are put under. Here in the city they have to practically raise some of these kids. If you put all the control of personnel in the hands of administrators (who are often worse than any of the teachers) and eliminate any of the security or real benefits of the teaching field, you are just going to find that many good teachers say "forget it" to the educational field, and go to the private sector, where they can get paid far better and probably be more appreciated (you are seeing this already in the vital science and math fields). Many good ones would also stay, but one could not be blamed for feeling the walls closing in on all sides and just giving up.

 

I can't see kids or teachers handling school all year round. And I also can't imagine that someone who complains about how much money is "thrown" at education would understand the financial commitment of an extra two-three months in the school year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You obviously have no idea what kind of stress teachers are put under.  Here in the city they have to practically raise some of these kids.  If you put all the control of personnel in the hands of administrators (who are often worse than any of the teachers) and eliminate any of the security or real benefits of the teaching field, you are just going to find that many good teachers say "forget it" to the educational field, and go to the private sector, where they can get paid far better and probably be more appreciated (you are seeing this already in the vital science and math fields).  Many good ones would also stay, but one could not be blamed for feeling the walls closing in on all sides and just giving up.

 

I can't see kids or teachers handling school all year round.  And I also can't imagine that someone who complains about how much money is "thrown" at education would understand the financial commitment of an extra two-three months in the school year.

201347[/snapback]

 

I don't? My wife TEACHES AT AN INNER-CITY SCHOOL.

 

Guess what? She agrees with me. All the old-time teachers hang on because they can, and they just don't care. She'd rather see them given the boot so younger, BETTER teachers can move in.

 

THAT would be a worthwhile purchase, to keep the little snots off the streets in the summer, and it would actually force teachers to work a whole year for their salary. Not a bad thing, IMO.

[Terry Tate]

Here in the city they have to practically raise some of these kids.

201347[/snapback]

Bingo. Top education barriers:

 

1. Parental failure in adequately physically and mentally preparing students.

1. Lack of parental involvement in schoolwork at home.

2. Lack of parental involvement emphasizing student's weak areas.

3. Lack of parental involvement in school activities (during and after-).

 

Parents please notice the trend there.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't? My wife TEACHES AT AN INNER-CITY SCHOOL.

 

Guess what? She agrees with me. All the old-time teachers hang on because they can, and they just don't care. She'd rather see them given the boot so younger, BETTER teachers can move in.

 

THAT would be a worthwhile purchase, to keep the little snots off the streets in the summer, and it would actually force teachers to work a whole year for their salary. Not a bad thing, IMO.

201358[/snapback]

Depends on what their salary is. If they start at $25 grand, then they might as well save themselves the stress and go work at Wegman's.

 

I agree about old teachers hanging on. There are plenty of them. I think tenure certainly needs to be revised and reconsidered, but the ideal behind it, which is making sure that teachers are not subject to the whim of administration and can teach in such a way so as to challenge students, is worth retaining.

 

I'm glad your wife is a teacher, and I'm sure she does her best for her kids. But we've got to stop treating teachers and students like they are the enemy. After all, making education better is to make lives better for all, is it not?

 

edit: and in re: to my statement earlier about Math and Science teachers, I think one problem with unions is that because they fight for the same cause for every worker, adequate compensation for those in the sciences cannot be given. While I am skeptical about making value judgements with regard to subject, I think teachers for these topics should be given far more money, because they can make far more in the private sector. What better way to get brilliant minds to motivate our kids to join these critical fields?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Depends on what their salary is.  If they start at $25 grand, then they might as well save themselves the stress and go work at Wegman's.

 

I agree about old teachers hanging on.  There are plenty of them.  I think tenure certainly needs to be revised and reconsidered, but the ideal behind it, which is making sure that teachers are not subject to the whim of administration and can teach in such a way so as to challenge students, is worth retaining.

 

I'm glad your wife is a teacher, and I'm sure she does her best for her kids.  But we've got to stop treating teachers and students like they are the enemy.  After all, making education better is to make lives better for all, is it not?

 

edit: and in re: to my statement earlier about Math and Science teachers, I think one problem with unions is that because they fight for the same cause for every worker, adequate compensation for those in the sciences cannot be given.  While I am skeptical about making value judgements with regard to subject, I think teachers for these topics should be given far more money, because they can make far more in the private sector.  What better way to get brilliant minds to motivate our kids to join these critical fields?

201373[/snapback]

 

I think rather than spending more money on students, if you MUST spend more money on something, spend it on teachers salaries.

[nobody]

I think rather than spending more money on students, if you MUST spend more money on something, spend it on teachers salaries.

201414[/snapback]

 

 

Teachers do need to make more money - the difficult part is to make sure it does not go to administrators.

[jimshiz]

All the old-time teachers hang on because they can, and they just don't care. She'd rather see them given the boot so younger, BETTER teachers can move in.

201358[/snapback]

 

I assume that you don't really mean this literally. That would be age discrimination. I'm all for performance based merit reviews. Both young and old teachers can perform poorly as well as perform well. I guess the whole tenure thing and unions stand in the way of performance based merit reviews.

[jimshiz]

I think one problem with unions is that because they fight for the same cause for every worker, adequate compensation for those in the sciences cannot be given.  While I am skeptical about making value judgements with regard to subject, I think teachers for these topics should be given far more money, because they can make far more in the private sector.  What better way to get brilliant minds to motivate our kids to join these critical fields?

201373[/snapback]

 

You need to qualify this so that "good" math teachers and "good" science teachers are "better" compensated. I'm pretty smart at math; but I'm not sure I'd ever make a good math teacher.

[Bill from NYC]

Actually that is all the govt cares about now - passing standardized tests.  It's not about teaching and learning anymore  - it's about memorizing enough of the standardized test to be able to say they know something.

200798[/snapback]

 

Where I live, the "school board" decides the raises of teachers. They are usually wannabee politicians and/or teachers from other districts. Their campaigns are funded by the teachers union, so they owe them. The payback comes in the form of huge raises under any and all economic conditions. They now receive in the vicinity of 110 grand per year at top pay. They also get "snow days" whether or not it snows, and we all know about their paid time off, and no cost medical insurance. Can you even imagine my tax bill?

 

If standardized tests were eliminated, ALL of the power would rest in their corrupt hands. As it stands, almost all of the scholarships are awarded to the PTA Officers' kids, friends and relatives of school board members, teachers, and union officials.

 

My daughter was the only child in the district to be National Merit. She was also the only one that year accepted into an Ivy. She received next to nothing, and the PTA president's kid got 8 grand to go to an obscure art school. I could cite countless other examples.

 

In short, if they could have taken away her SAT scores and given them to the child of a crony, they would have. Standardized tests are a good method of keeping some power away from corrupt educators.

 

PS: Yes, there were also many wonderful teachers.

[Guest RabidBillsFanVT]

Where I am from, teachers don't get JACK, as in many other areas throughout the country... that has nothing to do with any union problems, kickbacks, or anything of the sort. They just don't want to pay teachers what they should be earning... I find it terrible that teachers who go to school for the same number of years as many other professions end up earning 1/4 what those other people make. I'm not talking about earning 100k; I am talking about just $50k a year would be nice, and if you want to make it year-round, than that is fine by me.. NO teacher should EVER make less than 30k a year... it's NOT RIGHT.

[RkFast]

I find it terrible that teachers who go to school for the same number of years as many other professions end up earning 1/4 what those other people make.

 

They also work, on average approx 1/4 LESS than other professionals. Thats a fact as well. Teachers deserve a good salary, of course. But the reason they typically make less has some merit given the number of actual hours worked compared to other professions. I wish I only had to work 9 months a year.

[RuntheDamnBall]

They also work, on average approx 1/4 LESS than other professionals. Thats a fact as well. Teachers deserve a good salary, of course. But the reason they typically make less has some merit given the number of actual hours worked compared to other professions. I wish I only had to work 9 months a year.

202596[/snapback]

How do you know that? Most teachers I know spend hours at home lesson-planning every night after school and for most of August, and are working on mandatory master's degrees in the summer. Some teach summer school. And not to belittle any other job, but if you have kids you know how critical this profession is and how bad the results can be if it isn't done right.