San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 The oddest thing about this entire process is the 'transition' from Buddy to Whaley. IF you believe Whaley is your GM then promote him to GM, why do you need a transition period? To me that does not sound good for Whaley. Over thinking on my part? Maybe. Can anyone tell me the last time they can remember a situation like this? I know this has been a long thread but this has been discussed at length. A poster with legit inside sources on the Bills has addressed this. When the smoke clears, it will be Whaley.
eball Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Someone has yet to explain, with actual facts, how anything about the process going on at OBD since January 1 leads to any other conclusion but that Nix has been completely in charge of the football side of things up until his announcement yesterday. We've heard a lot of "well, the draft didn't seem like a Buddy draft" -- which is nonsense. Buddy was front and center in all football discussions since the first of the year -- does anyone really think Brandon and Whaley orchestrated this while in reality, Buddy was being minimized as everyone else worked on free agents and set the draft board? It's absurd. It was a pleasure yesterday listening to Buddy talk about his tenure as GM, what he thinks was accomplished, and how much he's looking forward to seeing how things progress now. He didn't shy away from the W-L record and admitted last year was a huge disappointment, but he sounded genuinely excited about the future, and also happy with transitioning to a role that allows him some free time. These were not the words of a bitter, "forced out" man. In two or three years a number of us will have to re-think our current opinions concerning the legacy of Buddy Nix. I'm hopeful I won't be one of them, because I believe Buddy stabilized the football side of the organization (college and pro scouting department), added significant talent to the roster, and with the latest draft, has put the Bills on the fast track to success.
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Someone has yet to explain, with actual facts, how anything about the process going on at OBD since January 1 leads to any other conclusion but that Nix has been completely in charge of the football side of things up until his announcement yesterday. It's just another lame attempt to discredit Nix for any potential good he may have actually done. "But he traded back, and drafted guys from the west coast - not the SEC!!!" Child, please. The phone call to TB convinced me he was still very much in charge. And I, for one, have no huge problem with the job Nix did as a whole, other than to acknowledge Chan was not a good hire, and ask "where the hell is the baby?" But I can see the forest through the trees, too. I will certainly miss his forthright demeanor and good 'ol boy southern accent. Considering the sunshine Russ Brandon likes to blow up our butts in interviews, Buddy always made sense to me and really seemed as though he was as honest as he could be - even if the truth hurt. Fred Jackson certainly gave the impression that he was the same way with his players as well. Buddy simply had to rebuild the lines as job one, and I thought he did a darn good job of it while he was here. Other than later round and/or UDFA bloomers like Kyle Williams, Brad Butler and Jason Peters, we all but ignored those spots in the draft under Donahoe/Levy/Brandon - and it showed. By virtue of that, we wasted a ton of coin on marginal-at-best free agents like Langston Walker, Derrick Dockery, Tutan Reyes, Geoff Hangartner etc. Buddy actually found guys off the street who could play, and got them for peanuts. That's a 180 in my book, and the cap space it saved then enabled us to keep those of our own that we needed to keep. And based on what Chan/Fitz did together early on in Buddy's tenure, I have no real issue with the extension he gave Fitz - it essentially paid Fitz market value for being an NFL starter. And especially when you consider that Buddy built a relatively painless 'out' into the deal, it looked like a smart move at the time. And now in hindsight, when it became painfully obvious that Chan/Fitz were more of a mirage and just not going to get it done here, they were jettisoned. Buddy's won/loss record is not what we had hoped, but I hang the win-loss record more on Chan's bumbling way of handling the team during game action (ex: Tenn/St. Louis home debacles) than Buddy not putting the talent on the field for him. Was Buddy supposed to veto the pass play than Chan called in the waning moments of the Tennesse game that was in-hand? Plus, you have to admit, he planned his exit very well - if EJ Manuel stinks, the onus will be squarely on Whaley by the time we know that is the case. If Manuel shines, Buddy the GM may then get some of the credit I think he deserves from some of the armchair curmudgeons that prowl these reaches of cyberspace. Edited May 14, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp
Chandler#81 Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Seriously, when your wife asks you if she looks fat, do you tell her the truth? PTR You mean fatter than yesterday??
BuffBill Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Exactly! Why should anyone take anyone at their word? Or make some fantastic leap of faith that what someone says should be a clue to their intentions? Live in the now people! Probably no different than any other team, but this team has told lie after lie over the past 3 years. Just two weeks ago, Buddy was gonna be the GM for a long time. Remember, Marshawn Lynch isn't on the trade block? Lee Evans ins't on the trade block? Resign my butt, he was demoted, plain and simple. They just didn't want to fire him when they fired Gailey, even though he deserved to be. Brandon didn't want to make it look to the fans like all was lost by firing them both together, and then trying to sell season tickets.
Best Player Available Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX4CQj3le6M Thanks, it's sometimes difficult to grasp the complexities of the game, that only future GM's seem to know.
Cash Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Were you in a coma when Chan was hired? You don't remember Shanny turning us down? Cowher? Gruden? How about Shotty's kid who refused to even interview with the Bills, and he was just a coordinator? By the time we got to Chan we were scrapping the barrel. We shouldn't get rid of a perfectly good barrel just because we can't hire a coach. Seriously though, the above is a valid point. From all appearances, the Bills simply couldn't attract a legitimate NFL head coaching candidate, and had to opt for a fired offensive coordinator who'd been unemployed the previous year, but who did have head coaching (and playoff!) experience. However, the flip side of this argument is that part of the reason the big names turned us down is because they wanted more control over personnel decisions. Shanahan essentially hired his GM in Washington -- it was very explicitly reported that hiring Bruce Allen was a condition of Shanahan's. Cowher & Gruden have cushy TV gigs and probably won't come back unless they have total control over football operations AND a QB already in place, or the chance to draft one right away. With Nix already hired as GM, the Bills couldn't offer the kind of control/power that the big names are capable of demanding. Had Nix not been hired (and the GM job been vacant), maybe Shanahan goes to the Bills instead of the Redskins? Overall, the 2010 Bills coaching job was very unappealing, and that's a big reason why we got stuck with Gailey. But doesn't Nix deserve part of the blame for that? For a prospective HC job, the 3 biggest factors have got to be owner, GM, & QB, right? If Buddy (a first-time GM at the age of 70) was an inspiring figure, he might have been able to scrounge up more interest in the job. After all, there's only 32 NFL head coaching jobs -- it's the pinnacle of the profession, and highly sought-after. In two or three years a number of us will have to re-think our current opinions concerning the legacy of Buddy Nix. I'm hopeful I won't be one of them, because I believe Buddy stabilized the football side of the organization (college and pro scouting department), added significant talent to the roster, and with the latest draft, has put the Bills on the fast track to success. Good post. As I said a ways upthread, Buddy's legacy can be greatly helped (repaired?) if he nailed this last coaching hire/draft. And really, it all comes down to Manuel. If he becomes a top 5 QB, we're in the playoffs basically every year he's healthy, Marrone has a great W/L record, and Buddy looks good. If Manuel's a total bust, Marrone is probably fired after 2-3 years, and only the craziest of crazies will defend Buddy. If Manuel is good-not-great, Marrone is probably fired after 4-5 years and maybe 1 playoff appearance, and Buddy still looks pretty bad. If the plan was to get back to mediocrity in 4-5 years and become a real contender in 5-7 years, Buddy shouldn't have said "we're not that far away" in his opening presser, or went into his backwoods "show me the baby" bit. So I have to think that Buddy was in over his head his first year or two on the job (understandable, since he'd never been a GM before), and may have also been hamstrung by some factors beyond his control, namely Ralph/Littman/Overdorf. Nonetheless, people have short memories, and if he went out by selecting a winning QB/coach combo, his tenure will mostly be regarded as a success. Except by the people who think Whaley was pulling the strings the last few months.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 who cares About 120 posters including yourself. Any other questions?
tennesseeboy Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 about time. We went from a mediocre team on the verge of being a better than average team to a less than mediocre team on the way to becoming a bad time. We have dug ourselves deeper into the hole, and now we can start working to get out of it.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 about time. We went from a mediocre team on the verge of being a better than average team to a less than mediocre team on the way to becoming a bad time. We have dug ourselves deeper into the hole, and now we can start working to get out of it. Is this something you saw etched on a stone tablet?
tennesseeboy Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Is this something you saw etched on a stone tablet? Not unless they've started putting our win/loss records on stone tablets...
BillsVet Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Not unless they've started putting our win/loss records on stone tablets... Thank goodness the roster is unquestionably better. Wins and losses don't really matter during the perpetual rebuilding at OBD.
tennesseeboy Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Hey...it isn't whether you win or lose...its how the fans read the tea leaves.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I know this has been a long thread but this has been discussed at length. A poster with legit inside sources on the Bills has addressed this. When the smoke clears, it will be Whaley. SJF, you are about the most level headed person on here. Does it not seem odd how this was handled? How it is being handled? I use the word odd because why not just come out and say this was the plan all along? Or why not name Whaley GM as Nix is stepping down? Call a presser and do it all at once. This would make things more unified and give a better appearance to everyone, no? And i will go a step further and say why not do this back in January? I have no problem with Whaley as GM but the way it is being handled puts him in a bit of a strange spot. It appears almost as if Brandon or Ralph did not feel he was competent to run the draft yet.
eball Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Thank goodness the roster is unquestionably better. Wins and losses don't really matter during the perpetual rebuilding at OBD. I've certainly never said or implied that; I simply take issue with those who use the team's W-L record as the sole determining factor of how specific individuals have fared in their jobs. If you believe Buddy Nix should have fired Gailey before the start of last season, so be it. I believe there had been enough signs of progress in 2010 and 2011 that it was reasonable to believe the team was about to take the next step. Buddy said so himself, and he was terribly disappointed by what happened last year. Does that mean everything he did over the first two seasons, bringing in and retaining talent, was no good? The HC was a bust -- Gailey proved he could not manage a game, nor could he manage the defense or hire a competent coordinator -- but firing him after 2011 would have been premature by almost any measure. What it really boils down to, then, is criticism of Nix for not firing Gailey in the middle of the season last year -- and if that's the worst thing Buddy did besides not drafting a QB until now, it hardly warrants the constant roasting he receives on this board. SJF, you are about the most level headed person on here. Does it not seem odd how this was handled? How it is being handled? I use the word odd because why not just come out and say this was the plan all along? Or why not name Whaley GM as Nix is stepping down? Call a presser and do it all at once. This would make things more unified and give a better appearance to everyone, no? And i will go a step further and say why not do this back in January? I have no problem with Whaley as GM but the way it is being handled puts him in a bit of a strange spot. It appears almost as if Brandon or Ralph did not feel he was competent to run the draft yet. If you listened to Buddy explain why he chose to step down now, I think many of your questions are answered. In another week or two the process of preparing the 2014 draft board begins. When Gailey was fired on 1/1 you're talking about a process (the 2013 draft) that Nix has presided over for seven months -- why blow it up then, even if Whaley is your guy? There is such a thing as too much change at once. If I'm looking at this objectively, I believe Nix thought he might step down after the draft, but nothing was set in stone and Brandon did not place an artificial timeframe upon him. They had locked up Whaley so he wasn't going anywhere, and there were likely private discussions among Buddy, Russ, and Whaley about what the timeframe might be. As it turns out, the Bills ran a very organized, professional HC search, and then executed what many believe is a sound draft. Now, as the focus turns to actual football, a smooth transition may be made to the next GM who will hit the ground running, preparing for 2014. Where is the harm in how it has been handled?
Lurker Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Whats even crazier, imo, are the fans that have been following sports for so long and still havent learned to take everything that comes out of the mouths of coaches and FO personnel with a grain of salt. What do you expect these guys to do? Lay out every secret and detail publicly in the media? They have a very competitive company to run. They are going to fib and stretch the truth sometimes. They are going to give only portions of the full story sometimes. It's for the good of the business and team. Deal with it, and figure out how to tell when they are BSing. It's pretty obvious, really. I'll stop reading this thread now as nothing more needs to be said...
BillsVet Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I've certainly never said or implied that; I simply take issue with those who use the team's W-L record as the sole determining factor of how specific individuals have fared in their jobs. If you believe Buddy Nix should have fired Gailey before the start of last season, so be it. I believe there had been enough signs of progress in 2010 and 2011 that it was reasonable to believe the team was about to take the next step. Buddy said so himself, and he was terribly disappointed by what happened last year. Does that mean everything he did over the first two seasons, bringing in and retaining talent, was no good? The HC was a bust -- Gailey proved he could not manage a game, nor could he manage the defense or hire a competent coordinator -- but firing him after 2011 would have been premature by almost any measure. What it really boils down to, then, is criticism of Nix for not firing Gailey in the middle of the season last year -- and if that's the worst thing Buddy did besides not drafting a QB until now, it hardly warrants the constant roasting he receives on this board. Not accusing you of that. My point is certain people are redefining success and it's a final desperate attempt to avoid blaming OBD. . No one gets credit in the NFL for building rosters and those who state this in lieu of actual on-field results clearly can't be objective and a fan.
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