EJ's throwing motion is amazing

[tennesseeboy]

hmmm..thanks for posting. This guy may really be something. Let's hope for the best!

[C.Biscuit97]

He is like Fitz, only the exact opposite. I think Marrone is drooling with the possibilities.

[mrags]

 

 

Kurt Warner as well...his release was so quick and compact.

 

 

 

Marino was an exceptional pure passer, maybe the best passer to play the game. He was not the best QB ever, IMO. There's a lot that goes into being a QB besides passing, and Marino had some deficiencies.

 

He was outstanding, and deserves to be in the HOF, but not in the same class as Montana, Unitas, Manning, & Brady (the 4 best ever IMO).

if you don't consider Marino to be in the same conversation as the best QBs in history then I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like, as a Bills fan you just have it imbedded to hate him with all you've got.

 

Not sure why you rank Marcia so highly though if you hate Marino so much.

[C.Biscuit97]

if you don't consider Marino to be in the same conversation as the best QBs in history then I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like, as a Bills fan you just have it imbedded to hate him with all you've got.

 

Not sure why you rank Marcia so highly though if you hate Marino so much.

 

I get what both of you are saying but with the great ones, rings is a huge part of the equation. I was fairly young during Marino's glory year but I just remember him being red faced and screaming at people. He also struck me as selfish and it was never his fault. I think he was a bad leader and lost control too easy.

[Luxy312]

Having a quick release and a big arm doesn't make you a great quarterback. Most would put Marino in that top-10 discussion none the less, regardless of being a bills fan. He was simply that good. Pretty much the same with Tom Brady these days. Love to hate him given how much he's beaten our team over the last dozen years, but the guy plays at the highest level year in and year out. Regardless of that discussion, I'm glad the Bills drafted Manuel. Athletically, he has the most upside of any of the quarterbacks in the draft this year.

[eball]

Having a quick release and a big arm doesn't make you a great quarterback. Most would put Marino in that top-10 discussion none the less, regardless of being a bills fan. He was simply that good. Pretty much the same with Tom Brady these days. Love to hate him given how much he's beaten our team over the last dozen years, but the guy plays at the highest level year in and year out. Regardless of that discussion, I'm glad the Bills drafted Manuel. Athletically, he has the most upside of any of the quarterbacks in the draft this year.

 

Of course not -- there's a reason we have the expression, "million dollar arm, ten cent head."

 

What's encouraging is that EJ appeared to be convincing in his pre-draft interviews that he's got the smarts as well.

[thebandit27]

if you don't consider Marino to be in the same conversation as the best QBs in history then I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like, as a Bills fan you just have it imbedded to hate him with all you've got.

 

Not sure why you rank Marcia so highly though if you hate Marino so much.

 

That's quite the leap, to assume that I don't rank Marino highly because I hate him, but that I rank Brady highly in spite of my hatred, when I said nothing to indicate my feelings about either guy.

 

Yes, I hated Marino on the field. Off the field, I actually liked him quite a bit. He was an exceptional passer, maybe the best to ever play the game. Passing is not the only skill a QB needs, and Marino pales in comparison to the four I mentioned when it comes to things like leadership, on-field direction of an offensive unit, performance in the clutch, ability to make plays under duress, and a few other areas.

 

For the record, I can't stand Brady on or off the field, so you're right about that.

 

You don't need to agree with me, but that's my opinion.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I get what both of you are saying but with the great ones, rings is a huge part of the equation. I was fairly young during Marino's glory year but I just remember him being red faced and screaming at people. He also struck me as selfish and it was never his fault. I think he was a bad leader and lost control too easy.

 

Your obvservations are accurate.

 

In addition he won a battle of wills with the iron-jawed Don Shula.

 

Many might not know but in Shula's 2 Super Bowl victories, he only allowed Hall of Fame QB Bob Griese a grand two-game total of less than 30 pass attempts.

 

In spite of Shula's repeated attempts to reign in Marino and restore some balance to the offense, Marino insisted on audibling to pass plays at an alarming rate.

 

Not much has been written about this subtext…. it's almost like no one wants to tarnish the legacy of either man but I believe that Marino's obstinate behavior was a reason for Shula's retirement.

[OCinBuffalo]

OC...you mentioned the "Marks" brothers but failed to note one of the original 'jack of all trades/major pain in the azz guys'.......Jim Jensen. How many huge first down catches did that guy seem to make back in the day? I loathed him as a football player because he had no typical football skills (at least those that would be expected on that level of play) yet he carved out a nice career and was a big contributor for the Phins. The very definition of overachiever. Would have loved him on the Bills.

You are right.

 

But, the thing that burned my ass was watching Duper and Clayton. Everybody in the stadium, or in the room, KNEW where the ball was going, KNEW that they had no running game to speak of, and then we'd see Duper and Clayton catch a 20 yard pass, 15, 30, then the near sack incomplete that always raised your hopes a little, followed by a yet another 20 yard pass. And then? The obligatory comeback rout TD , where the ball just crosses line, but it always looked like our guy kept them out of the end zone...only to see the ref's arms go up.

 

And that was with them starting from their 10, after we had a great special teams play, because the Dolphins were always horrible at it.

 

...............

 

But then we grew a defense, and the Dophins didn't. Then we got a QB who specialized in beating Marino.

 

Jim Kelly: Reason #1 why Dan Marino has 0 rings, and that will be true forever. Eat it Dolphins fans.

 

4-2 vs. Elway, 15-8 against Marino, including 3-0 in the playoffs. The Steelers are the next best Jim Kelly "team that thought they were good" whipping boys, who talked huge amounts of schit before the game, only to be wholly owned. "But...but....but...we have Barry Bananas Foster, and he ran for 122 yards and a TD, and our D had 2 INTs". "Yes. But Kelly is in the midst of throwing 6 TDs this game, clown, now go get the next pitcher, because your fake ID is better than mine".

 

Kelly had to retire for Bill Cowher to get a ring. Yes, it used to be fun watching Kelly crush the hopes of my Steeler fan friends.

 

Next is the Chiefs and the hapless Raiders.

 

Ahh...it was nice to do a little smack talking for once. Hopefully we will be back to it soon.

[Bills4]

Your obvservations are accurate.

 

In addition he won a battle of wills with the iron-jawed Don Shula.

 

Many might not know but in Shula's 2 Super Bowl victories, he only allowed Hall of Fame QB Bob Griese a grand two-game total of less than 30 pass attempts.

 

In spite of Shula's repeated attempts to reign in Marino and restore some balance to the offense, Marino insisted on audibling to pass plays at an alarming rate.

 

Not much has been written about this subtext…. it's almost like no one wants to tarnish the legacy of either man but I believe that Marino's obstinate behavior was a reason for Shula's retirement.

 

Interesting insight.

 

As much as I hated Dan Marino (because the rivalry was so strong back then) I have to admire the guy. He had an amazing arm and the quickest release. So many times I can remember that I thought we had him for a sack and hed release the ball with a quickness I dont think Ive ever seen again. His deep balls were fun to watch. He didnt lob a bomb. He threw lazers

 

The lack of championships is the only thing holding him back in my opinion. There was nothing great about Joe Montanas game in my opinion except for the fact that the guy was a winner. Plain and simple, Montana was a winner. And I would take a winner any day over a guy who possibly the most accurate arm in the history of the nfl

 

As SJB pointed out, sounds like there is more to the Marino story then what meets the eye.

[KeisterHollow]

The other thing that Jimbo had, which you can't quantify, is his leadership ability. Love what comes out of EJ's mouth. We have a QB that speaks well, acts well, and leads. That is the best thing about EJ vs all the QBs this year. Thank goodness we didn't get Geno Smith!

Well said! I also don't underestimate the value of representing oneself, creating an image - it's very important, and something I had a really hard time with about Nassib - he just mumbled through every sentence he spoke on tape. Confidence, power, authority - those things are communicated by language, both verbal and body language. That's what Nix and Marrone are talking about when they say he has the "it" factor. Most people don't recognize that like 85% of all communication between people is unconscious, and it's body language, and that type of language is hard to pretend, or stage. Either a person is confident and capable, or they're not. That's another thing I liked about Barkley - he was so in control, and so smart. EJ is too, but he's just plain bigger, and hopefull better, too. Best case scenario - Cam Newton without the ego and maturity issues.

[Buftex]

 

 

EJ just kinda flicks the ball from his ear and it's gone. He seems like a guy that would be very tough to strip the ball from because he's got huge paws and when he pulls the trigger his motion is so compact and quick that there isn't much of that vulnerable window where the arm is back and the ball is exposed.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYRCkpnnlIs

 

I agree with you, and I am pretty excited about EJ Manuel... but I do recall watching the "Gruden Camp" thing that ESPN shows, prior to the draft (not really imagining the Bills would ever take him), Gruden's biggest concerns about the way his undergarment sleeves clashed with his jersey (seriously, Gruden mentioned it like 10 times) and the way EJ handles the ball, especially while moving around in the pocket. I know, you were commenting specifically on his throwing motion (which I like too), but Gruden seemed to really be hammering home that he needs to protect the ball better.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Go back and watch Kelly play. He threw the ball very effortlessly. He had a cannon and used to fire strikes or flick it 40 yards off of his back foot or flat footed all of the time. Fitz and Kelly's arms were as similar as Losman and Trent Edwards.

 

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well said! I also don't underestimate the value of representing oneself, creating an image - it's very important, and something I had a really hard time with about Nassib - he just mumbled through every sentence he spoke on tape. Confidence, power, authority - those things are communicated by language, both verbal and body language. That's what Nix and Marrone are talking about when they say he has the "it" factor. Most people don't recognize that like 85% of all communication between people is unconscious, and it's body language, and that type of language is hard to pretend, or stage. Either a person is confident and capable, or they're not. That's another thing I liked about Barkley - he was so in control, and so smart. EJ is too, but he's just plain bigger, and hopefull better, too. Best case scenario - Cam Newton without the ego and maturity issues.

 

Very much agree with this take.

 

I was criticized here for commenting negatively about Nassib's appearance on Gruden's QB Camp.

 

He slouched in his chair and mumbled his responses.

 

I found that to be very strange and disturbing behavior for someone who is auditioning for one of the 32 most glamorous jobs in professional sports.

 

All the truly great QBs exude a certain quality.

 

Other guys (Phillip Rivers and Jay Cutler) don't.

 

Of course Nassib could have a strong huddle persona but that's only part of the job.

 

An NFL QB is also the face of the franchise.

[K-9]

Not really, he just played against Marino a lot.

 

See, I figured somebody would bring up Marino, after seeing Manuel this weekend, and sure enough K9 was on it. Absolutely right about Fitz. Fitz is like a pitcher who can't throw from the stretch. His windup motion is why he got hit after the throw so often.

 

And, Marino's release is why, given the old rules on defense, he made the HOF, and not the IR list.(It also helped that Don Shula sat on the officiating committee for years, such that if anybody dared touch him on anything that was close, out came the flags) Marino could also move around in the pocket very well. (Bledsoe's sin was that he couldn't)

 

I can't believe I'm doing this, but, it's instructive:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm3ErTOp0JQ

 

and some wonder why the fans who can remember still hate the Dolphins more than the Patriots.

 

You watch that whole video, and remember this happened before the rule changes, and you think: "Marino makes Brady look like a 3rd stringer." Marino, and nobody else, not the defense, not the kicker, would light the Bills up, and there was nothing we could do about it. Not until Bruce Smith came along, and Duper/Clayton slowed down a bit, did we start to have a chance against them.

 

That's why EJM makes me nuts, his release reminds me of something I haven't seen in a long time: Marino's. It scares the crap out of me, that he might actually have a chance to be that good. And then I think: "somebody is gonna yell at me for not being a realist". It's like I only want to whisper it to myself

 

Miami will ALWAYS be the team I hate most in the league. Ofer the 70s will do that to a guy. Great point about Shula and the refs. I'm still not over the Jerry Seemen call against Pat Toomey! It'll be "Phuck the Phins" as long as there is breath in my lungs.

 

As for the similiarities in throwing motions, I hadn't even considered Manuel's resemblance to Marino but when you mentioned it, I took a closer look and, damn, it DOES remind me of Marino's. I'm gonna shut up now and just keep it to myself as you suggest.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Kurt Warner as well...his release was so quick and compact.

 

 

 

Marino was an exceptional pure passer, maybe the best passer to play the game. He was not the best QB ever, IMO. There's a lot that goes into being a QB besides passing, and Marino had some deficiencies.

 

He was outstanding, and deserves to be in the HOF, but not in the same class as Montana, Unitas, Manning, & Brady (the 4 best ever IMO).

 

Yep. This is a point I've been beating to death for years around here. There is a difference between being a passer and being a quarterback. No doubt Marino is one of the greatest passers ever. But he's far from the greatest QB in my book. I don't have him in the top 10. But hey, I'm just picky and I still have a soft spot in my heart for all those QBs who actually called their own games back in the day. That's why I loved Namath so much.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[atlbillsfan1975]

I get the impression EJ could be the next Big Ben, only faster. Also, he doesn't seem at all like the type to get mixed up in the wrong stuff like Ben did. But if he resembles BB on the field, I'd be happy.

 

 

The OP probably means Manuel's release is way more effortless than FItz's and Kelly's. You're right, Fitz was known for his quick processing ability (hence the 48 on the wonderlic) and getting rid of the ball quick. But because his arm strength and athleticism is nowhere near Manuel's, he had to put more effort into the throw. Definitely why his longer throws suffered. Manuel seems to have everything you'd want in a franchise QB. And I'm counting on our new HC and his staff to develop him into a superstar.

I like the Big Ben comparison and have been using it myself since i watched more of EJ's work.

Lets just hope he can out it all together and become the QB we have been waiting for.

[thebandit27]

Miami will ALWAYS be the team I hate most in the league. Ofer the 70s will do that to a guy. Great point about Shula and the refs. I'm still not over the Jerry Seemen call against Pat Toomey! It'll be "Phuck the Phins" as long as there is breath in my lungs.

 

As for the similiarities in throwing motions, I hadn't even considered Manuel's resemblance to Marino but when you mentioned it, I took a closer look and, damn, it DOES remind me of Marino's. I'm gonna shut up now and just keep it to myself as you suggest.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

Yep. This is a point I've been beating to death for years around here. There is a difference between being a passer and being a quarterback. No doubt Marino is one of the greatest passers ever. But he's far from the greatest QB in my book. I don't have him in the top 10. But hey, I'm just picky and I still have a soft spot in my heart for all those QBs who actually called their own games back in the day. That's why I loved Namath so much.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

This is an absolutely huge one for me, which is why I think Johnny U will always belong up there, since he was one of the best in-game-planning QBs in history.

[Bill from NYC]

There was nothing great about Joe Montanas game in my opinion except for the fact that the guy was a winner. Plain and simple, Montana was a winner.

 

Perhaps I am hung up on semantics, but I respectfully disagree. Montana could find his 3rd or 4th receiver in 3 seconds or so.

 

Look at Manuel, he has a great arm. His deep balls require little effort, little air, and they still have zip in the last 5 yards. I believe that if GMs thought Manuel could see open receivers like Montana, teams would have been on line to trade up to #1 and draft him.

 

The above is not to say that I don't think Manuel will be good. He will need to be coached up, and by all accounts he's a bright kid. I am very pleased with the selection, let alone the extra 2nd rounder.

[eball]

Perhaps I am hung up on semantics, but I respectfully disagree. Montana could find his 3rd or 4th receiver in 3 seconds or so.

 

Look at Manuel, he has a great arm. His deep balls require little effort, little air, and they still have zip in the last 5 yards. I believe that if GMs thought Manuel could see open receivers like Montana, teams would have been on line to trade up to #1 and draft him.

 

The above is not to say that I don't think Manuel will be good. He will need to be coached up, and by all accounts he's a bright kid. I am very pleased with the selection, let alone the extra 2nd rounder.

 

Wasn't Montana drafted in the 3rd round (82nd pick)? And it's not as if he was playing in anonymity in college, either, so everyone wasn't exactly beating down the door to get to him. Think it's possible Walsh was partially responsible for Montana's success?

 

Determining the likely success or failure of QBs coming out of college is as difficult as it appears -- if not more so. But it's nice when some of the things you can't teach -- size, arm strength, smarts -- are already in place.

[Bill from NYC]

Wasn't Montana drafted in the 3rd round (82nd pick)? And it's not as if he was playing in anonymity in college, either, so everyone wasn't exactly beating down the door to get to him. Think it's possible Walsh was partially responsible for Montana's success?

 

Determining the likely success or failure of QBs coming out of college is as difficult as it appears -- if not more so. But it's nice when some of the things you can't teach -- size, arm strength, smarts -- are already in place.

 

I don't disagree with your post. My point is that finding secondary receivers is a skill, and today it's a necessity. Montana wrote the book on this. Brady, Brees and of course Manning are doing this in todays new version of football.

And no, teams weren't beating down the door to draft Montana, Brees, or Brady. But what they did in the NFL speaks for itself.

 

Manuel has a much better skillset in terms of his arm and athleticism. I hope that with good coaching he can become a complete quarterback and make the Buffalo Bills Football team relevant. And again, I like the selection!