dave mcbride Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 (edited) Yes...i remember. There is a significant drop-off in the talent of QB's that Evans played with, from what Moulds played with. Moulds had, Jim Kelly, Todd Collins, Alex Van Pelt, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie and Drew Bledsoe throwing passed to him over his career...Kelly and Moulds didn't hook up all that many times, and it was Kellys' final season..Todd Collins and Alex Van Pelt were pretty sub-par, while Moulds had very productive games during the Futie/Johnson fiasco, and put up elite (or near elite) in the final good year that Bledsoe had left in him. Evans had Bledsoe (in his worst year in Buffalo, 2004), Losman, Trent Edwards, Kelly Holcomb and Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing passes somewhere in his vicinity. Now, I won't make the rediculous claim that Evans was better than Moulds (he wasn't as versatile, but the offensive talent around him, I would argue was significantly worse..during Evans tenure he never had a legit complimetary receiver other than TO for 1 year, had good running backs with awful o-lines ), but it seems that people can't like one and the other...it has to be an either or thing. Also, not being taken into account is that they were two very different receivers in styles and stature. They aren't really comperable. Flutie and Moulds had a fantastic rappoir. Seriously. In fact, Moulds' best game (in my opinion) came in the most unjust NFL game I've watched in my lifetime: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199811290nwe.htm Edited May 8, 2013 by dave mcbride
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Flutie and Moulds had a fantastic rappoir. Seriously. In fact, Moulds' best game (in my opinion) came in the most unjust NFL game I've watched in my lifetime: http://www.pro-footb...99811290nwe.htm Geez Dave. You're being even more French than the French!
bbb Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Yes...i remember. There is a significant drop-off in the talent of QB's that Evans played with, from what Moulds played with. Moulds had, Jim Kelly, Todd Collins, Alex Van Pelt, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie and Drew Bledsoe throwing passed to him over his career...Kelly and Moulds didn't hook up all that many times, and it was Kellys' final season..Todd Collins and Alex Van Pelt were pretty sub-par, while Moulds had very productive games during the Futie/Johnson fiasco, and put up elite (or near elite) in the final good year that Bledsoe had left in him. Evans had Bledsoe (in his worst year in Buffalo, 2004), Losman, Trent Edwards, Kelly Holcomb and Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing passes somewhere in his vicinity. Now, I won't make the rediculous claim that Evans was better than Moulds (he wasn't as versatile, but the offensive talent around him, I would argue was significantly worse..during Evans tenure he never had a legit complimetary receiver other than TO for 1 year, had good running backs with awful o-lines ), but it seems that people can't like one and the other...it has to be an either or thing. Also, not being taken into account is that they were two very different receivers in styles and stature. They aren't really comperable. It must have been 2004 that I'm thinking of. I think Lee really came on strong in the 2nd half of the year when we made that 6 game run. At that one point in time, he was better than Moulds.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Lee Evans, all day. PSYCH! Moulds without question.
MDH Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Also, a lot of people like to point to SJ's three consecutive 1,000 yard seasons (in the most pass-heavy era the league has ever known), while Moulds was 102 yards away from FIVE consecutive 1,000 yard seasons, back when it was a run-first league. And this without the benefit of a quality QB to throw him the ball. I always felt badly for him that he never got to realize his full potential with the jokes at QB the Bills fielded. If Moulds played with a HoF type QB I'm convinced he'd be on his way to the HoF.
RevWarRifleman Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Is this even a real question? Come on, man, it's E. Moulds all day long. Not even close. +1
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Tougher question: Moulds as a Texan vs. Evans as a Raven?
Storm Front Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Moulds or Lofton or Lofton or Reed would be a better conversation.
Cash Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 the question should be Evans or Stevie? I tried to post the following in the "Evans or Stevie" thread that got locked. Apparently, this is the only thread that allows player vs. player discussion, or maybe just WR vs. WR discussion? Honestly, it seems like the mods are slacking, because I'd say at least 90% of the threads in this forum fall under the topic of "Buffalo Bills Discussion", yet less than half of them get locked or merged. Anyway, I put too much work into my reply to let to dissolve into the ether, so I'm posting it here: ----------------- [Evans vs. Stevie] Not really a fair question. Evans played 7 years for the Bills, Stevie's only played 5, and was a non-factor for the first 2: Lee Evans w/ Bills: 109 games (102 starts), 377 rec., 5934 yards, 43 TDs, 15.7 yards/catch, 54.4 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Stevie's first 5 years: 64 games (46 starts), 249 rec., 3235 yards, 25 TDs, 13.0 yards/catch, 50.5 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Evans' first 5 years: 80 games (73 starts), 296 rec., 4745 yards, 32 TDs, 16.0 yards/catch, 59.3 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Stevie in years 3-5 (2010-2012): 48 games (45 starts), 237 rec., 3123 yards, 23 TDs, 13.6 yards/catch, 65.1 yards/game, 0.5 TDs/game Evans in years 3-5 (2006-2008): 48 games (47 starts), 200 rec., 3159 yards, 16 TDs*, 15.8 yards/catch, 65.8 yards/game, 0.3 TDs/game* It's definitely Evans so far, but Stevie's career is (hopefully) less than half over. If Stevie's next 3 years are comparable to his last 3 years, he'll overtake Evans. Then again, if Evans had been able to keep up his early-career production, he might well still be a Bill. This is why I don't like comparing an active player to a retired player, especially a guy who's in his prime. There's no way of knowing how long that prime will last. Even if he stays healthy, some guys just tail off. *Evans' best 3-year stretch for TDs was his first 3 years (2004-2006): 24 TDs, 0.5 TDs/game. 2008 was his second-best statistical season in receptions & yards, but his career-worst season for TDs as a Bill with only 3. Then he had a pretty bad year in 2009 (44 rec/612 yds), but bounced back to 7 TDs. Go figure.
dave mcbride Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Tougher question: Moulds as a Texan vs. Evans as a Raven? You mean Moulds as a Titan. I decide by asking the following question: did Moulds drop a game winning pass that would have put his team in the SUper Bowl?
uncle flap Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 You mean Moulds as a Titan. I decide by asking the following question: did Moulds drop a game winning pass that would have put his team in the SUper Bowl? Did Evans? I know the play to which you're referring, but I'd hardly call that a "drop."
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 You mean Moulds as a Titan. I decide by asking the following question: did Moulds drop a game winning pass that would have put his team in the SUper Bowl? I am pretty sure he played with the Texans (across from Andre Johnson). This is really a tough one. I think Moulds was average despite playing alongside a great WR, but Evans got serious playing time down the stretch for a contender, including being the go-to guy for said dropped TD. I would go with Moulds (Hou) over Evans (Balt), based on fewer critical errors and fewer injuries.
KD in CA Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Tougher question: Moulds as a Texan vs. Evans as a Raven? Not really. That comparison is as lopsided as their years with the Bills. Moulds caught 57 passes for Houston (and 32 more for Tenn the next year) when he was 33/34 years old. Evans (only 30 years old), caught 4 passes all year for the Ravens; and allowed some 9th string CB to strip the conference championship out of his hands. I tried to post the following in the "Evans or Stevie" thread that got locked. Apparently, this is the only thread that allows player vs. player discussion, or maybe just WR vs. WR discussion? Honestly, it seems like the mods are slacking, because I'd say at least 90% of the threads in this forum fall under the topic of "Buffalo Bills Discussion", yet less than half of them get locked or merged. Anyway, I put too much work into my reply to let to dissolve into the ether, so I'm posting it here: ----------------- [Evans vs. Stevie] Not really a fair question. Evans played 7 years for the Bills, Stevie's only played 5, and was a non-factor for the first 2: Lee Evans w/ Bills: 109 games (102 starts), 377 rec., 5934 yards, 43 TDs, 15.7 yards/catch, 54.4 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Stevie's first 5 years: 64 games (46 starts), 249 rec., 3235 yards, 25 TDs, 13.0 yards/catch, 50.5 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Evans' first 5 years: 80 games (73 starts), 296 rec., 4745 yards, 32 TDs, 16.0 yards/catch, 59.3 yards/game, 0.4 TDs/game Stevie in years 3-5 (2010-2012): 48 games (45 starts), 237 rec., 3123 yards, 23 TDs, 13.6 yards/catch, 65.1 yards/game, 0.5 TDs/game Evans in years 3-5 (2006-2008): 48 games (47 starts), 200 rec., 3159 yards, 16 TDs*, 15.8 yards/catch, 65.8 yards/game, 0.3 TDs/game* It's definitely Evans so far, but Stevie's career is (hopefully) less than half over. If Stevie's next 3 years are comparable to his last 3 years, he'll overtake Evans. Then again, if Evans had been able to keep up his early-career production, he might well still be a Bill. This is why I don't like comparing an active player to a retired player, especially a guy who's in his prime. There's no way of knowing how long that prime will last. Even if he stays healthy, some guys just tail off. *Evans' best 3-year stretch for TDs was his first 3 years (2004-2006): 24 TDs, 0.5 TDs/game. 2008 was his second-best statistical season in receptions & yards, but his career-worst season for TDs as a Bill with only 3. Then he had a pretty bad year in 2009 (44 rec/612 yds), but bounced back to 7 TDs. Go figure. Good analysis, but I think it's a little unfair to SJ by virtue of the fact he was a 7th round pick so no one gave him a chance. Meanwhile Evans was #1 so was a presumtive starter from draft day on. As you point out, SJ already has slightly better stats in years 3-5. If we compare their first 3 years as a starter, the advantage wieghs a little more heavily to SJ: SJ: 237/3123/23 (years 3-5) LE: 178/2878/24 (years 1-3)
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Flutie and Moulds had a fantastic rappoir. Seriously. In fact, Moulds' best game (in my opinion) came in the most unjust NFL game I've watched in my lifetime: http://www.pro-footb...99811290nwe.htm I remember watching that game with a gf. I got so pissed at the call i kicked a table across the room...such b.s. Beginning of the N.E home cooking era!!!
Buftex Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 I am pretty sure he played with the Texans (across from Andre Johnson). This is really a tough one. I think Moulds was average despite playing alongside a great WR, but Evans got serious playing time down the stretch for a contender, including being the go-to guy for said dropped TD. I would go with Moulds (Hou) over Evans (Balt), based on fewer critical errors and fewer injuries. Yes, Moulds played for the Texans before he ended his career, as a Titan. When Moulds went to Houston, and Tennessee for that matter, he was a shell of himself. Evans missed, what, 3 starts as a Bill, but most of his only season in Balitmore injured. Sadly, he will be remembered, in Baltimore only for the dropped (or was it "not caught") pass in the AFC Championship game. I will admit, Evans is probably my favorite Buffalo Bill of the last 12 years (this dark period), and I honestly think, the years of futility took its' toll on him in Buffalo. If the Bills could have ever had a stable QB situation during his time, I think he might still be having a productive NFL career. I remember reading a story about him, during the hype for this years Super Bowl...it almost sounded like the years in Buffalo kind of snuffed his passion for the game. I just remember he said that his one year in Baltimore (essentially saying "playing for a legit franchise") kind of woke up his passion for playing, something that he thought had left him at the end of his career in Buffalo. I know that will likely piss a lot of people off, but I think it is probably more common than we know. Losing and ineptness are a slippery slope.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Yes, Moulds played for the Texans before he ended his career, as a Titan. When Moulds went to Houston, and Tennessee for that matter, he was a shell of himself. Evans missed, what, 3 starts as a Bill, but most of his only season in Balitmore injured. Sadly, he will be remembered, in Baltimore only for the dropped (or was it "not caught") pass in the AFC Championship game. I will admit, Evans is probably my favorite Buffalo Bill of the last 12 years (this dark period), and I honestly think, the years of futility took its' toll on him in Buffalo. If the Bills could have ever had a stable QB situation during his time, I think he might still be having a productive NFL career. I remember reading a story about him, during the hype for this years Super Bowl...it almost sounded like the years in Buffalo kind of snuffed his passion for the game. I just remember he said that his one year in Baltimore (essentially saying "playing for a legit franchise") kind of woke up his passion for playing, something that he thought had left him at the end of his career in Buffalo. I know that will likely piss a lot of people off, but I think it is probably more common than we know. Losing and ineptness are a slippery slope. I don't think that it should piss people off. It is what it is. I think that a large part of my excitement with the new coaching staff is that they bring that passion for the game. A culture change was necessary and seems to be taking place.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I will admit, Evans is probably my favorite Buffalo Bill of the last 12 years (this dark period), and I honestly think, the years of futility took its' toll on him in Buffalo. If the Bills could have ever had a stable QB situation during his time, I think he might still be having a productive NFL career. I remember reading a story about him, during the hype for this years Super Bowl...it almost sounded like the years in Buffalo kind of snuffed his passion for the game. I just remember he said that his one year in Baltimore (essentially saying "playing for a legit franchise") kind of woke up his passion for playing, something that he thought had left him at the end of his career in Buffalo. I know that will likely piss a lot of people off, but I think it is probably more common than we know. Losing and ineptness are a slippery slope. If playing WR with Trent Edwards as your QB doesn't zap the passion from you, I don't know what will. How many times did we all wonder why Edwards wasn't even attempting a ball to a receiver? Nothing more frustrating than running 40 routes out there, and getting zero balls thrown your way.
Bufcomments Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Which do you think was better? Moulds.... next question ?
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