Inside Buffalo's draft room

[BillsVet]

Why do I get the feeling Nix takes the blame for the past 13 years, when the franchise he "inherited" three years ago was in complete shambles? If you honestly don't believe there have been positive changes in the organization and roster since he got here, I don't know what to tell you.

 

Expectations in 2010 were far different than 2012. Everyone knew Buffalo was rebuilding off the Jauron/Levy/Brandon years and 2010 figured to be a long season. In 2012, expectations were high with Mario signing, the money spent on other players, and the third year of Nix/Gailey. They then fell flat on their face despite the GM talking about taking the next step, i.e. playoffs.

 

As a result, the rebuild which started in 2010 failed by 2012. The evidence comes in the form of a new HC and drafting a new QB in the first round.

 

At this point, which metric would you suggest using, aside from W's and L's, to indicate success or failure? If 2012 (Year 3 of the Nix rebuild) did not result in a playoff season, one can only conclude they didn't meet their goal started when the rebuild started in 2010.

 

Moving the goal posts to re-define success is an argument made out of homer desperation.

[Kelly the Dog]

Expectations in 2010 were far different than 2012. Everyone knew Buffalo was rebuilding off the Jauron/Levy/Brandon years and 2010 figured to be a long season. In 2012, expectations were high with Mario signing, the money spent on other players, and the third year of Nix/Gailey. They then fell flat on their face despite the GM talking about taking the next step, i.e. playoffs.

 

As a result, the rebuild which started in 2010 failed by 2012. The evidence comes in the form of a new HC and drafting a new QB in the first round.

 

At this point, which metric would you suggest using, aside from W's and L's, to indicate success or failure? If 2012 (Year 3 of the Nix rebuild) did not result in a playoff season, one can only conclude they didn't meet their goal started when the rebuild started in 2010.

 

Moving the goal posts to re-define success is an argument made out of homer desperation.

Which team would you rather start that rebuild with, the team that Gailey inherited or the team that Marrone inherited? To me, it is not really close.

[eball]

Expectations in 2010 were far different than 2012. Everyone knew Buffalo was rebuilding off the Jauron/Levy/Brandon years and 2010 figured to be a long season. In 2012, expectations were high with Mario signing, the money spent on other players, and the third year of Nix/Gailey. They then fell flat on their face despite the GM talking about taking the next step, i.e. playoffs.

 

As a result, the rebuild which started in 2010 failed by 2012. The evidence comes in the form of a new HC and drafting a new QB in the first round.

 

At this point, which metric would you suggest using, aside from W's and L's, to indicate success or failure? If 2012 (Year 3 of the Nix rebuild) did not result in a playoff season, one can only conclude they didn't meet their goal started when the rebuild started in 2010.

 

Moving the goal posts to re-define success is an argument made out of homer desperation.

 

I've never attempted to re-define success; I only assert that it is too soon to declare total failure. I don't need a metric to tell me this -- clearly the team is in better shape now than it was when Nix took over. And I agree, it has to result in wins sooner rather than later to mean anything.

[BillsVet]

Which team would you rather start that rebuild with, the team that Gailey inherited or the team that Marrone inherited? To me, it is not really close.

 

You mean the one non-personnel men Levy/Brandon and their HC Jauron built versus the Nix/Gailey edition? Let's be real clear here. We were told Buddy would straighten things out and he himself talked about doing it in 3-4 years because that's how long it takes to do it right. Well, we're into the 4th off-season with the 2nd HC, 2nd starting QB, about the 4th defense and expectations (outside of the homerific view) are not high.

 

But I'll answer the question anyway: I'd rather have the 2010 team, minus the absurd decision to switch to a 3-4 (which later brought us the infamous 5-2) in favor of a 4-3. This would have allowed the team to address both sides of the ball, rather than Nix pouring resources into an ill-fated defense which they then scrapped in 2012.

[BillsVet]

I've never attempted to re-define success; I only assert that it is too soon to declare total failure. I don't need a metric to tell me this -- clearly the team is in better shape now than it was when Nix took over. And I agree, it has to result in wins sooner rather than later to mean anything.

 

Sure, fine. But in the NFL, 3 years is an eternity. Looking around the league, teams are rebuilding and doing it for the long haul in 3 seasons. Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati, et al have done it. It's reasonable to expect in the age of free agency that a franchise go from being a division doormat to making the playoffs in 3 years. Why does it take the Bills longer?

 

I look down at the roster and see a big youth movement, many of whom aren't NFL proven. And shouldn't we expect the roster to be better after 4 off-seasons of rebuilding? Four 1st round draft picks, millions of UFA dollars, and plenty of the blue light waiver wire/practice squad signings Buddy is famous for should mean things are better, right?

[Kelly the Dog]

But I'll answer the question anyway: I'd rather have the 2010 team, minus the absurd decision to switch to a 3-4 (which later brought us the infamous 5-2) in favor of a 4-3. This would have allowed the team to address both sides of the ball, rather than Nix pouring resources into an ill-fated defense which they then scrapped in 2012.

Then you would be crazy.

 

You win in the NFL with QBs, good coaching, and star players surrounded by good players. That 2010 team had no stars. Mario and CJ are stars. Lynch may be now but he wasn't then and wasn't likely going to be in Buffalo where he hated being here. Byrd may be a star now but he was there then, too, if you want to count him. Both lines were bad on that team, even with Levitre and Wood and Kyle Williams. Schobel was gone and not coming back. Stevie may not have become what he is without Gailey. There is no question at all this team is far better than the team Nix inherited.

[FleaMoulds80]

Then you would be crazy.

 

You win in the NFL with QBs, good coaching, and star players surrounded by good players. That 2010 team had no stars. Mario and CJ are stars. Lynch may be now but he wasn't then and wasn't likely going to be in Buffalo where he hated being here. Byrd may be a star now but he was there then, too, if you want to count him. Both lines were bad on that team, even with Levitre and Wood and Kyle Williams. Schobel was gone and not coming back. Stevie may not have become what he is without Gailey. There is no question at all this team is far better than the team Nix inherited.

 

Truth

[eball]

Sure, fine. But in the NFL, 3 years is an eternity. Looking around the league, teams are rebuilding and doing it for the long haul in 3 seasons. Seattle, Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati, et al have done it. It's reasonable to expect in the age of free agency that a franchise go from being a division doormat to making the playoffs in 3 years. Why does it take the Bills longer?

 

I look down at the roster and see a big youth movement, many of whom aren't NFL proven. And shouldn't we expect the roster to be better after 4 off-seasons of rebuilding? Four 1st round draft picks, millions of UFA dollars, and plenty of the blue light waiver wire/practice squad signings Buddy is famous for should mean things are better, right?

 

No, 13 years is an eternity. The common denominator with the teams you mentioned starts and ends at the QB position, an area we've all admitted Nix has failed to adequately address to date. If Nix takes Kaepernick two years ago, or Wilson last year, Gailey probably still has a job -- although I don't think any of us would be too happy about that. I still refuse to blame Nix for not imposing his own defensive "will" upon the coordinators Gailey chose. He tried to get them the players they wanted. This year we get to see what decent coaching can do with the players Nix has acquired. And I do agree with you -- at some point it has to show up in the W-L record.

[habes1280]

Anyone else have trouble loading videos on BB.com? I've had this issue for over a month-- tried different computers (all PC's) and different browsers and the videos just don't load.

[Kelly the Dog]

Anyone else have trouble loading videos on BB.com? I've had this issue for over a month-- tried different computers (all PC's) and different browsers and the videos just don't load.

If you have adblock or something similar disable it for just that site.

[habes1280]

If you have adblock or something similar disable it for just that site.

Thanks! I saw your post earlier in this thread, and while I don't have adblock, I did toggle with my security settings for the site and added it to my "Trusted Sites" in IE, which seemed to do the trick. Thanks again for your input, and for pointing me in the right direction.

[BillsVet]

Then you would be crazy.

 

You win in the NFL with QBs, good coaching, and star players surrounded by good players. That 2010 team had no stars. Mario and CJ are stars. Lynch may be now but he wasn't then and wasn't likely going to be in Buffalo where he hated being here. Byrd may be a star now but he was there then, too, if you want to count him. Both lines were bad on that team, even with Levitre and Wood and Kyle Williams. Schobel was gone and not coming back. Stevie may not have become what he is without Gailey. There is no question at all this team is far better than the team Nix inherited.

 

Crazy as 'ol Buddy on the backroads of Mississip looking for another diamond in the rough.

 

Individual players still don't tell me about a team. Even if the roster is better (and it should be) the record still doesn't illustrate that. Why?

 

The answer, IMO, is simple. Personnel placed into a fluid environment of changing schemes will not produce results. Buddy Nix himself ensured that when he made a few key decisions, namely the defensive scheme change that had guys like Kyle Williams masquerading as a 1/0 tech NT. On offense, he seemed to be building the offensive line for the exact opposite of what Gailey wanted to do. While Nix wanted his 330 pound blockers, Gailey wanted a short quick passing game suitable for his lesser QB's that didn't run the ball from anything but a spread based scheme. And then, they draft their water bug back who wasn't a between the tackles runner. Where is the cohesion there?

 

You can't ever build a team when forcing players into a revolving door or schemes. It doesn't and will not work. Players take time to learn how to play in new alignments, and they certainly aren't set up for success when their talents are not suitable for a scheme.

[3rdand12]

He failed.

He gets another shot via our venerable RW and the new man in charge Russ.

The alignment and scheme have changed as of this year.

Nix gets a do over. lucky man.

Lucky man? I think so.

Will this draft and the more recent player aquisitions and deletes be enough to redeem him ?

Too soon.

but he failed the 3 year plan and there is no way to argue that.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Kelly and BillsVet, you guys are arguing over minutia.

 

I hate to be over-reductionistic but again, it's very simple.

 

Good teams have good head coaches and good quarterbacks. If you have both of these things you have a good team.

 

If you don't have both of these things you don't have a good team.

 

All the rest is just filler.

 

Nix made a bad coaching hire. He was given the chance to make another head coaching hire.

 

After waiting too long on several QBs (Kaepernick, Wilson, Cousins) Nix finally pulled the trigger on a QB.

 

As such, Nix has the opportunity to dramatically re-write his legacy as Bills GM.

[BillnutinHouston]

 

Which team would you rather start that rebuild with, the team that Gailey inherited or the team that Marrone inherited? To me, it is not really close.

 

Agree. And how about the scouting and pro personnel staffs, as well as the assistant GM position? Buddy has upgraded everywhere, with the latest upgrade likely at head coach.

[ganesh]

You mean the one non-personnel men Levy/Brandon and their HC Jauron built versus the Nix/Gailey edition? Let's be real clear here. We were told Buddy would straighten things out and he himself talked about doing it in 3-4 years because that's how long it takes to do it right. Well, we're into the 4th off-season with the 2nd HC, 2nd starting QB, about the 4th defense and expectations (outside of the homerific view) are not high.

 

But I'll answer the question anyway: I'd rather have the 2010 team, minus the absurd decision to switch to a 3-4 (which later brought us the infamous 5-2) in favor of a 4-3. This would have allowed the team to address both sides of the ball, rather than Nix pouring resources into an ill-fated defense which they then scrapped in 2012.

And a real QB drafted in the 2010 draft

[yungmack]

We don't know this for sure, but the legend is that Buddy couldn't get any top candidates to take the head coaching job that eventually went to Gailey. The perception around the league was that the organization was completely dysfunctional, from a meddling, aging owner, to an incompetent & understaffed scouting department, to a roster without quality players & huge holes at key positions.

 

Contrast that with this off season: within days, more than 20 guys had contacted the Bills about the HC job. The Bills were able to set up meetings with all the top guys. And after hiring Marrone, they were able to sign a top DC. Several desirable FAs signed w/Buffalo over other teams. And last year they were able to sign arguably the star of the free agent class.

 

So I would ask the Negative Nancys around here, do you honestly believe the current Bills are the same stinky organization they were 3 or 4 years ago? Or is it possible this really is a team with a strongly positive future, one that players & coaches now view as a good place to be? And if the latter is the case, how can you not give Buddy props for that? And ulimately, props to Brandon?

Edited May 8, 2013 by yungmack

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Crazy as 'ol Buddy on the backroads of Mississip looking for another diamond in the rough.

 

Individual players still don't tell me about a team. Even if the roster is better (and it should be) the record still doesn't illustrate that. Why?

 

The answer, IMO, is simple. Personnel placed into a fluid environment of changing schemes will not produce results. Buddy Nix himself ensured that when he made a few key decisions, namely the defensive scheme change that had guys like Kyle Williams masquerading as a 1/0 tech NT. On offense, he seemed to be building the offensive line for the exact opposite of what Gailey wanted to do. While Nix wanted his 330 pound blockers, Gailey wanted a short quick passing game suitable for his lesser QB's that didn't run the ball from anything but a spread based scheme. And then, they draft their water bug back who wasn't a between the tackles runner. Where is the cohesion there?

 

You can't ever build a team when forcing players into a revolving door or schemes. It doesn't and will not work. Players take time to learn how to play in new alignments, and they certainly aren't set up for success when their talents are not suitable for a scheme.

 

Another hindsight is 20/20, 'show me the baby' mindset. The last three years are mired in the after-effects of a universally acknowledged bad move by Nix - the hiring of one Chan Gailey. This led us into the "Fitz-is-our-guy" thing, which also meant we did not address QB until now. The criticism of that reality is well justified. But if you think the team Nix walked into is more appealing than the one he has now built, please tell me why were we only able to attract an unemployed retread/lackluster college guy in Gailey (out of left field, no less) with your 'preferred' team as 2010 beckoned?

 

The 2013 team, as currently constructed, is viewed as attractive enough to lure Marrone, a guy that Cleveland and Philly were reportedly interested in before he essentially chose us. Time will tell if he is a good NFL HC, but in my opinion, this would be a hard point for you to argue about. Factor in the fact that the Jets highly accomplished and respected DC jumped over to our ship (against Sexy Rexy's wishes), and you can hopefully see the point I am making.

 

And you talk a lot about schemes, but don't seem to understand that the whole 3-4 switch to a 4-3, then back to a 3-4 is not a Nix/scouting flip-flop, but ultimately another Gailey call that obviously went nowhere, much like each of his three seasons as our leader. Gailey's DCs were abysmal. But interestingly, it has had the net effect of seasoning our holdover guys like KW, Carrington and Dareus into (hopefully) useful weapons in the new Pettine hybrid-model defense. Talk schemes all you want, but to me, Buddy has a decent history of finding talent.

 

And you are criticizing his handling of the offensive line? If there is one area that Nix has handled with aplomb, it has been that unit. Do you remember the contracts we gave to Langston Walker, Derrick Dockery, and even Melvin Fowler? Tutan Reyes? We now have relatively inexpensive guys across the front, and they have protected Fitzy well despite many key injuries. Another point you can try to argue by saying Fitz gets rid of it quickly, but the proof has been on the field. We were able to run it and throw it effectively under Chan, limited only by Fitzy's double-cheekers that topped out at 15 yards.

 

We don't know this for sure, but the legend is that Buddy couldn't get any top candidates to take the head coaching job that eventually went to Gailey. The perception around the league was that the organization was completely dysfunctional, from a meddling, aging owner, to an incompetent & understaffed coaching department, to a roster without quality players & huge holes at key positions.

 

Contrast that with this off season: within days, more than 20 guys had contacted the Bills about the HC job. The Bills were able to set up meetings with all the top guys. And after hiring Marrone, they were able to sign a top DC. Several desirable FAs signed w/Buffalo over other teams. And last year they were able to sign arguably the star of the free agent class.

 

So I would ask the Negative Nancys around here, do you honestly believe the current Bills are the same stinky organization they were 3 or 4 years ago? Or is it possible this really is a team with a strongly positive future, one that players & coaches now view as a good place to be? And if the latter is the case, how can you not give Buddy props for that? And ulimately, props to Brandon?

 

Agreed, add in the fact that Modrak was director of college scouting or whatever for that first Nix year ... most of the draft work for the 2010 draft was already in the books when Nix got the GM gig. Of course that means Nix came back to Buffalo as a scout under Modrak in 2009. Dysfunction junction.

[NoSaint]

Kelly and BillsVet, you guys are arguing over minutia.

 

I hate to be over-reductionistic but again, it's very simple.

 

Good teams have good head coaches and good quarterbacks. If you have both of these things you have a good team.

 

If you don't have both of these things you don't have a good team.

 

All the rest is just filler.

 

Nix made a bad coaching hire. He was given the chance to make another head coaching hire.

 

After waiting too long on several QBs (Kaepernick, Wilson, Cousins) Nix finally pulled the trigger on a QB.

 

As such, Nix has the opportunity to dramatically re-write his legacy as Bills GM.

 

generally agree. its not often a GM gets the shot nix just got. I am curious to see how it works out.

[Joe W]

We don't know this for sure, but the legend is that Buddy couldn't get any top candidates to take the head coaching job that eventually went to Gailey. The perception around the league was that the organization was completely dysfunctional, from a meddling, aging owner, to an incompetent & understaffed scouting department, to a roster without quality players & huge holes at key positions.

 

Contrast that with this off season: within days, more than 20 guys had contacted the Bills about the HC job. The Bills were able to set up meetings with all the top guys. And after hiring Marrone, they were able to sign a top DC. Several desirable FAs signed w/Buffalo over other teams. And last year they were able to sign arguably the star of the free agent class.

 

So I would ask the Negative Nancys around here, do you honestly believe the current Bills are the same stinky organization they were 3 or 4 years ago? Or is it possible this really is a team with a strongly positive future, one that players & coaches now view as a good place to be? And if the latter is the case, how can you not give Buddy props for that? And ulimately, props to Brandon?

 

 

Don't kid yourself Nix and Branden are idiots there only hope is to go 3-13 and get the top pick next year