Dorkington Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 You guys can keep ignoring the facts I'm sure that the sheep will say that ESPN sucks (CFB is the one thing they get right) It's hilarious to listen to the sheep mentality in this board. Trying to justify the reasons why EJ was average in college. There's always excuses with every Bills reach. Hope it makes you feel better. an't wait to bump this thread. Glad to hear that you root for the Bills and their players to fail.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 But what if the QB and the WRs end up being some of the worst players ever? Hence why it's weird to grade a draft before the players actually see the field. I like CJ. I think he's got some awesome talent. But he was a top RB taken when we had Lynch and FJ already. In order for him to be "worth it" he needs to be putting up HoF numbers, he needs to instill confidence in his coaching staff, and he needs to not fade away in short yardage, 4th quarter and after 20 carries. He was put into the position of needing to meet really high expectations, which isn't fair to him at all. In a vacuum, he's pretty good, but compared to where he was drafted and what we already had? He hasn't really lived up to what he's needed to, imo. Which is all on Nix. Let me clarify, my judgement is on NIX, not on CJ. Nix is the one who messed up by putting CJ into an impossible position. So in order to be good as the 9th pick in the draft, you have to be in the Hall of Fame? You have pretty high standards.
eball Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 7. Florida State Seminoles Key receivers: Rashad Greene, Willie Haulstead There's a lot of speed here, without question, but a lot of unrealized potential. Greene, Haulstead and Kenny Shaw, among others, have demonstrated a lot of ability. Injuries and inconsistency, however, have limited overall production. Haulstead is a great example. The junior was forced to take a medical redshirt a year ago due to lingering effects from a concussion, and yet he is FSU's only representative on the preseason Biletnikoff watch list. At 6-3 and 233 pounds, he's a tough matchup for ACC corners -- or any league's corners, for that matter. As a freshman, Greene led the team with 596 yards and seven touchdowns. He might turn out to be the Noles' top award candidate, depending on how he continues to mesh with QBEJ Manuel. Even without a proven star, FSU shines with its depth. Senior Rodney Smith and sophomoreChristian Green, the second- and third-leading receivers a year ago, combined for 1,011 Yes, that writeup is very telling indeed. Good work helping your opponents with their arguments, John.
Dorkington Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 So in order to be good as the 9th pick in the draft, you have to be in the Hall of Fame? You have pretty high standards. When you have two Pro-Bowl caliber running backs already? Yeah, you have to be really damned good to take another RB at the 9th pick. If we had **** and crap at the position, CJ would have been a fantastic pick, and I would judge Nix less harshly. Seems you guys are having a hard time understanding that my gripe isn't about CJ, but it's about the pick.
Last Guy on the Bench Posted May 7, 2013 Author Posted May 7, 2013 You guys can keep ignoring the facts I'm sure that the sheep will say that ESPN sucks (CFB is the one thing they get right) It's hilarious to listen to the sheep mentality in this board. Trying to justify the reasons why EJ was average in college. There's always excuses with every Bills reach. Hope it makes you feel better. an't wait to bump this thread. "Average in college?" As in middle of the pack out of 120 FBS schools? Really? You don't have to think he will be a great pro to acknowledge that EJ was at least above average. If he was average (i.e., somewhere between, say, the 40th and 80th best FBS QB in the country) then the Bills just made the worst draft pick in the history of the the NFL.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 When you have two Pro-Bowl caliber running backs already? Yeah, you have to be really damned good to take another RB at the 9th pick. If we had **** and crap at the position, CJ would have been a fantastic pick, and I would judge Nix less harshly. Seems you guys are having a hard time understanding that my gripe isn't about CJ, but it's about the pick. I understand the idea, and the criticism. I really do. But you also need to understand that the Bills had already decided to trade Lynch when they drafted CJ. Personally, I thought that was a bad move. I would have preferred to keep Lynch. But there were all kinds of extenuating circumstances, which led them to want to trade him. So the team really only had FredEx. And the team had no breakaway speed or homerun threat as they stated.
Dorkington Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I understand the idea, and the criticism. I really do. But you also need to understand that the Bills had already decided to trade Lynch when they drafted CJ. Personally, I thought that was a bad move. I would have preferred to keep Lynch. But there were all kinds of extenuating circumstances, which led them to want to trade him. So the team really only had FredEx. And the team had no breakaway speed or homerun threat as they stated. I understand the "logic" for drafting him. And I don't agree with it. So, I grade Nix low. It's not like *my* grades are anything but subjective, I'm just one person with an opinion. I like CJ. I'd like him more if we actually had holes for him to fill at the time.
The Big Cat Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 I understand the idea, and the criticism. I really do. But you also need to understand that the Bills had already decided to trade Lynch when they drafted CJ. Personally, I thought that was a bad move. I would have preferred to keep Lynch. But there were all kinds of extenuating circumstances, which led them to want to trade him. So the team really only had FredEx. And the team had no breakaway speed or homerun threat as they stated. Lynch had a gun, a weed and a hit-and-run incident during his time with Buffalo before he was shipped off. He's kept his act together during the last three seasons in Seattle, and good for him. But he was an eye lash from some serious league-mandated bench time. Bills fans conveniently forget this fact...constantly. I understand the "logic" for drafting him. And I don't agree with it. So, I grade Nix low. It's not like *my* grades are anything but subjective, I'm just one person with an opinion. I like CJ. I'd like him more if we actually had holes for him to fill at the time.
Dorkington Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Lynch had a gun, a weed and a hit-and-run incident during his time with Buffalo before he was shipped off. He's kept his act together during the last three seasons in Seattle, and good for him. But he was an eye lash from some serious league-mandated bench time. Bills fans conveniently forget this fact...constantly. Who said I forgot about that? Other teams keep their "problem" players all the time. Our coaches and FO decided they didn't want Lynch, which I understand. But I'd rather have Lynch, FJ and a 1st round pick, than FJ and CJ. So... I grade Nix low. I'll go ahead and stop with that, I don't need to derail the thread anymore. I'm just saying, that even Nix's 'best' pick, was far from ideal (in my opinion).
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Lynch had a gun, a weed and a hit-and-run incident during his time with Buffalo before he was shipped off. He's kept his act together during the last three seasons in Seattle, and good for him. But he was an eye lash from some serious league-mandated bench time. Bills fans conveniently forget this fact...constantly. Actually Lynch was charged with DUI last July near Oakland. Also he again has skipped voluntary workouts in Seattle which has raised the eyes of some pundits.
eball Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 [/size] "Average in college?" As in middle of the pack out of 120 FBS schools? Really? You don't have to think he will be a great pro to acknowledge that EJ was at least above average. If he was average (i.e., somewhere between, say, the 40th and 80th best FBS QB in the country) then the Bills just made the worst draft pick in the history of the the NFL. Among qualified QBs EJ was 13th in QB rating. Don't know that I'd call that "average" -- particularly given his unproven WR squad with unrealized potential and limited overall production.
The Big Cat Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Actually Lynch was charged with DUI last July near Oakland. Also he again has skipped voluntary workouts in Seattle which has raised the eyes of some pundits. Surprised he didn't face a suspension over that. But since this is a critique of Nix, let's use this as evidence to pin the Lynch castoff where it seemingly belongs: on Gailey. Under Nix/Chan: we draft, retain a bunch of choir boys. Under Nix/Marrone we draft a bunch of guys with off-the-field question marks. What changed?
Wayne Cubed Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Among qualified QBs EJ was 13th in QB rating. Don't know that I'd call that "average" -- particularly given his unproven WR squad with unrealized potential and limited overall production. .... who were often injured and inconsistent.
The Big Cat Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Hopefully the record. Records have already changed.
Maury Ballstein Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) When you have two Pro-Bowl caliber running backs already? Yeah, you have to be really damned good to take another RB at the 9th pick. If we had **** and crap at the position, CJ would have been a fantastic pick, and I would judge Nix less harshly. Seems you guys are having a hard time understanding that my gripe isn't about CJ, but it's about the pick. I get it....im with you if you look at the angle that Marshawn stays (and improves a bit as he did in Seattle WHAT A BEAST gotta show him some love, he's killing it for Seattle FTR), then pair that with possible later picks in that draft JPP, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Earl Thomas or Iupati... if theoretically it was trade CJ for Marshawn and Dez Bryant? im taking beast mode back love Dez Bryant.... missed on Dez, Russ Wilson, Kaep, Orakpo and on and on gotta hope Buddy finally crushed a pick and the EJ/CJ/SJ triumvirate is firing on all cylinders right out of the gate to justify all of the past mistakes. Edited May 7, 2013 by Ryan L Billz
Beastly Dareus Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 You guys can keep ignoring the facts I'm sure that the sheep will say that ESPN sucks (CFB is the one thing they get right) It's hilarious to listen to the sheep mentality in this board. Trying to justify the reasons why EJ was average in college. There's always excuses with every Bills reach. Hope it makes you feel better. an't wait to bump this thread. Ranking nation's top 10 receiving corps July, 31, 2012 7. Florida State Seminoles Key receivers: Rashad Greene, Willie Haulstead There's a lot of speed here, without question, but a lot of unrealized potential. Greene, Haulstead and Kenny Shaw, among others, have demonstrated a lot of ability. Injuries and inconsistency, however, have limited overall production. Haulstead is a great example. The junior was forced to take a medical redshirt a year ago due to lingering effects from a concussion, and yet he is FSU's only representative on the preseason Biletnikoff watch list. At 6-3 and 233 pounds, he's a tough matchup for ACC corners -- or any league's corners, for that matter. As a freshman, Greene led the team with 596 yards and seven touchdowns. He might turn out to be the Noles' top award candidate, depending on how he continues to mesh with QBEJ Manuel. Even without a proven star, FSU shines with its depth. Senior Rodney Smith and sophomoreChristian Green, the second- and third-leading receivers a year ago, combined for 1,011 You do realize that supports my arguement and only weakens your arguement? Re-read that write-up. Also that article ranked the WR corps based on players rankings coming out of high school. Remember, Sam Young was once ranked the #2 OT coming out of high school (in 2006), then he was average in Notre Dame and undrafted. Bryce Brown was considered the best high school prospect in the 2009 class, he ended up being a 7th round pick. Russell Sheppard was considered the 2nd best QB prospect and 3rd or 4th best overall prospect in the 2009 class... he turned out to be nothing. Beannie Wells, Stafon Johnson, and Keiland Williams were all ranked better than CJ Spiller in 2006. I could keep going if I wanted to. In the end, high school rankings don't mean anything. Prospects don't live up to their rankings more often than they do. Stop making your conclusions based on high school rankings. FSU dos not have tons of weapons for their QB's, just look at how many RB/WR/TE's have been drafted out of FSU during EJ Manuel's time there. Also, its funny you have to resort to name calling. Thats what people do when they know they don't know what they are talking about. It's also funny how your the only one that agrees with yourself in this thread. Yet your calling everyone else a "sheep" LOL
Maury Ballstein Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Keiland Williams and Stafon Johnson over Cj Spiller............lock it in
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 Yeah again, John Cocktosten thinks the Florida State wide receivers are talented with lots of upside but that their quarterback EJ Manuel doesn't have any upside.
Doc Posted May 7, 2013 Posted May 7, 2013 You do realize that supports my arguement and only weakens your arguement? Re-read that write-up. Also that article ranked the WR corps based on players rankings coming out of high school. Remember, Sam Young was once ranked the #2 OT coming out of high school (in 2006), then he was average in Notre Dame and undrafted. Bryce Brown was considered the best high school prospect in the 2009 class, he ended up being a 7th round pick. Russell Sheppard was considered the 2nd best QB prospect and 3rd or 4th best overall prospect in the 2009 class... he turned out to be nothing. Beannie Wells, Stafon Johnson, and Keiland Williams were all ranked better than CJ Spiller in 2006. I could keep going if I wanted to. In the end, high school rankings don't mean anything. Prospects don't live up to their rankings more often than they do. Stop making your conclusions based on high school rankings. FSU dos not have tons of weapons for their QB's, just look at how many RB/WR/TE's have been drafted out of FSU during EJ Manuel's time there. Also, its funny you have to resort to name calling. Thats what people do when they know they don't know what they are talking about. It's also funny how your the only one that agrees with yourself in this thread. Yet your calling everyone else a "sheep" LOL If the best you can do when criticizing Manuel is bring-up high school WR ratings and projections that have yet to bear fruit, while ignoring the numerous other problems FSU had on offense (not to mention the defense's performance against Florida), you're not exactly dealing from a position of strength.
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