EJ's Florida Game Lucky for Bills?

[C.Biscuit97]

Good lord really? Do we want to go back to that same draft and look at who you fell in love with? You wanted Dan Lefevour in the second. At least Clausen is still on a team.

 

Actually why don't we go back over every one of your posts and count the millions of ways you were wrong. You've been saying 10 wins per season for the last 5 years...those who live in glass houses. Ballsy to be so ignorant.

 

I will bet you $100 you will never find one post of me calling for Dan Lefevour in the 2nd. You in? You mail it with the beer you owe me for Clausen (I'm feeling a Shandy for the summer, any recommendations?).

 

And guess what? We have the same exact amount of control over what the Bills do. Personally, when it's 75 degrees and sunny, I'll hope for the best. Physically, Manuel is the most talented QB in the draft. He's also the best leader. As I showed in another thread, FSU was very weak producing offensive players. Marrone took an average at best talent in Ryan Nassib and made him into a NFL QB.

 

So yeah, saying the Bills will be bad every offseason will lead to you being more right than wrong. But personally, I'm rooting like hell for Manuel since he is probably the most physical gifted (and is a leader) since Kelly. But if only we would have drafted Clausen.

[JohnC]

I repeat. The post that you responded to was not in any way talking about the whole of Buddy Nix's drafts. It was only talking about first round picks and in particular, EJ Manuel.

 

And as I stated before, whether the post is talking about Buddy Nix, or purple Chinese pottery, you cut and past your tried-and-troll Buddy Nix is an incompetent fool diatribe we have seen 3,729 times before.

 

Let's be accurate. I haven't said he is an incompetent. I have said that he is a very mediocre GM.

Edited May 6, 2013 by JohnC

[John Cocktosten]

Interesting.

 

You pounded your chest about predicting the busts of Leinart (seven years ago), Sanchez (four years ago) and Tebow (three years ago).

 

But now the past is out of bounds?

 

Pound my chest? Exaggerate much? I was actually making a point saying that it's okay to call another first rounder a bust, just as long as he doesn't play for the Bills. But I would expect that to go over your head.

 

I have no problem owning up to Clausen. I still can't believe it. If ND didn't have him they might have won 2-3 games that year. I've even offered to pay my bet on this board so I'm more than accountable too. I thought it was funny that the same guy who was in love with LeFevour would bring that up. But you'll never here that from him.

[thebandit27]

Stat boy ...harsh...sorry bro.

 

RG3 tooks advantage of his talent by putting unreal numbers game after game. What did EJ do? Believe me Rashard Greene, Kelvin Bejamin and Kenny Shaw will all be drafted high as WRs for FSU not to mention the ridiculous stable of backs. RG3 was unreal. EJ was good. The talent of the overall offenses severely favors FSU and it's not even close including O LIne.

 

And I would agree with you that the Big12 defenses are bad but the ACC is worse. The ACC is 1-8 against the Big 12 the last 3 years. The comp isn't close regardless of defenses. But tell me again how Va Tech's vaunted defense was good when DUke hung 40+ points on them. Sorry again for the stat boy, i get harsh sometimes.

 

 

I never said it was harsh, just that I found the cheesy name-calling to be funny (and often indicative of someone that doesn't feel strongly enough in their conviction).

 

And your assessment regarding the talent on offenses is dubious at best. I don't know if you recall, but Baylor had first-round talent on the OL while Griffin played there in Danny Watkins, and also had two interior linemen make NFL rosters in 2012 in Robert T. Griffin (Was) and Phillip Blake (Den). That's not a heck of a lot different than FSU, who had a 2nd rounder this year in Menelik Watson, plus 5th and 7th rounders last year in Zebrie Sanders and Andrew Datko. FSU's leading rusher was a 5th round pick this year, Baylor's leading rusher was a 6th round pick last year.

 

EDIT: I forgot about Rodney Hudson...I think he was a 2nd rounder for KC in 2011.

 

If you are indeed correct, and all 3 of FSU's leading WRs end up first or second rounders (which, based on watching them, I doubt will happen), then I'd say the talent level will be even. If not, then I'd say it's pretty obvious who was playing with the higher talent level on offense.

 

And no, the defenses in the ACC aren't worse than those in the Big 12. The Big 12 is the worst defensive conference in the nation, and has been for about 5 years running; there's no comparison. That's why a team like Baylor can lose a guy like RG3 and actually improve on offense.

 

I just don't see how you can admit that EJ was good, and then go on to say that he can't win a game for the team...just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Edited May 6, 2013 by thebandit27

[The Big Cat]

Pound my chest? Exaggerate much? I was actually making a point saying that it's okay to call another first rounder a bust, just as long as he doesn't play for the Bills. But I would expect that to go over your head.

 

I have no problem owning up to Clausen. I still can't believe it. If ND didn't have him they might have won 2-3 games that year. I've even offered to pay my bet on this board so I'm more than accountable too. I thought it was funny that the same guy who was in love with LeFevour would bring that up. But you'll never here that from him.

 

Well, if you gotta insult me personally to make yourself feel better about hating your favorite football team's first round draft pick, then I think I've heard everything you have to say.

[C.Biscuit97]

Also, for the record, Peyton Manning went 0-4 against Florida.

 

If anything, Doug Marrone thinks he is a better coach than Jimbo Fisher and can get more out of Manuel than Jimbo did. And give what he did with a one star recruit in RN, it's not crazy to think he could have done wonders with a 5 star recruit in Manuel.

[John Cocktosten]

I will bet you $100 you will never find one post of me calling for Dan Lefevour in the 2nd. You in? You mail it with the beer you owe me for Clausen (I'm feeling a Shandy for the summer, any recommendations?).

 

And guess what? We have the same exact amount of control over what the Bills do. Personally, when it's 75 degrees and sunny, I'll hope for the best. Physically, Manuel is the most talented QB in the draft. He's also the best leader. As I showed in another thread, FSU was very weak producing offensive players. Marrone took an average at best talent in Ryan Nassib and made him into a NFL QB.

 

So yeah, saying the Bills will be bad every offseason will lead to you being more right than wrong. But personally, I'm rooting like hell for Manuel since he is probably the most physical gifted (and is a leader) since Kelly. But if only we would have drafted Clausen.

 

I could see you drinking that swill. Want me to send the lemons too?

 

You were in love with DL. Plus if I started looking through your history, I could write a book on how wrong you've been about.....well everything regarding the Bills. How many wins last year?

 

Man, it's hilarious how people keep saying that FSU doesn't have offensive talent. Rashard Greene is unreal. He had 4 WRs who could start for almost any team in the country last year. Chris Thompson goes down and they just have 2 other RBs fill right in and average 6 YPC and over 600 yds. The crazy thin g is Pender, who's probably their best back, was hurt all last year. But they don't have offensive talent.

 

I tried contacting you about the beer and never heard back. I should send you a 6 pack for your complete lack of ownership over your LeFevour crush.

[Doc]

It wasn't a good game for FSU all-around. Florida's offense was ranked 97th in yards (334 YPG) and 78th in points (26.5 PPG), but FSU's top-ranked defense allowed 394 yards and 37 points, including 24 in the 4th quarter, and let the Gators hold the ball for 22 minutes in the 1st half alone. At home, no less. True Manuel made some bad decisions, but he was under constant pressure from the get-go and probably let that rattle him some. His 3 INT's didn't even really kill them since it gave Florida the ball at their 12, 24, and 30 yard lines, and they had the lead going into that 4th quarter. And Jimbo fisher called a questionable game.

BTW, as for the "ton of offensive talent" around Manuel, I keep hearing that from FSU fans, but it's hardly the case. I think it's a matter of looking at high school recruiting and repeating it over and over to themselves. For starters, they have no TE worth much. As for the WR's, sure they had a bunch of 4- and 5-star recruits, but they're just not that good, and the best of the bunch, Rashad Greene, is a sophomore who still has a lot of improving to do. They had a decent running game. And their OL, which is supposed to be a strength, was a weakness is several games, most notable the NC State and aforementioned Florida games.

[John Cocktosten]

I never said it was harsh, just that I found the cheesy name-calling to be funny (and often indicative of someone that doesn't feel strongly enough in their conviction).

 

And your assessment regarding the talent on offenses is dubious at best. I don't know if you recall, but Baylor had first-round talent on the OL while Griffin played there in Danny Watkins, and also had two interior linemen make NFL rosters in 2012 in Robert T. Griffin (Was) and Phillip Blake (Den). That's not a heck of a lot different than FSU, who had a 2nd rounder this year in Menelik Watson, plus 5th and 7th rounders last year in Zebrie Sanders and Andrew Datko. FSU's leading rusher was a 5th round pick this year, Baylor's leading rusher was a 6th round pick last year.

 

EDIT: I forgot about Rodney Hudson...I think he was a 2nd rounder for KC in 2011.

 

If you are indeed correct, and all 3 of FSU's leading WRs end up first or second rounders (which, based on watching them, I doubt will happen), then I'd say the talent level will be even. If not, then I'd say it's pretty obvious who was playing with the higher talent level on offense.

 

And no, the defenses in the ACC aren't worse than those in the Big 12. The Big 12 is the worst defensive conference in the nation, and has been for about 5 years running; there's no comparison. That's why a team like Baylor can lose a guy like RG3 and actually improve on offense.

 

I just don't see how you can admit that EJ was good, and then go on to say that he can't win a game for the team...just doesn't make sense to me at all.

 

If you really think Baylor is playing with more talent than FSU then I think we can end this now. Gordon didn't play with RG3 during his Heisman campaign and neither did Watkins.

 

The ACC's 1-8 record vs the Big12 the last 3 years. The Big 12 offensively and defensively is a way better conference and it's been proven on the field.

 

I said EJ was good but that's it. He basically a 4 year starter who never took the next step and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. Sorry if you don't like it but I'm very convicted.

[thebandit27]

If you really think Baylor is playing with more talent than FSU then I think we can end this now. Gordon didn't play with RG3 during his Heisman campaign and neither did Watkins.

 

The ACC's 1-8 record vs the Big12 the last 3 years. The Big 12 offensively and defensively is a way better conference and it's been proven on the field.

 

I said EJ was good but that's it. He basically a 4 year starter who never took the next step and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. Sorry if you don't like it but I'm very convicted.

 

Please show me something that would indicate otherwise, because, so far, NFL talent evaluators don't believe that's the case.

[Kelly the Dog]

Let's be accurate. I haven't said he is an incompetent. I have said that he is a very mediocre GM.

Ummm...

 

It's simply outrageous that Nix is still involved with this year's draft and player decisions. Would you go back to an incompetent surgeon and ask him to fix what he has screwed up? Brandon had the chance to start fresh and establish a new organizational culture where accountability was taken seriously. He kept Nix on the job. What does that say about the new Brandon era?

Edited by JohnC, 02 March 2013 - 08:20 AM.

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[John Cocktosten]

Also, for the record, Peyton Manning went 0-4 against Florida.

 

If anything, Doug Marrone thinks he is a better coach than Jimbo Fisher and can get more out of Manuel than Jimbo did. And give what he did with a one star recruit in RN, it's not crazy to think he could have done wonders with a 5 star recruit in Manuel.

 

I said that. He also didn't lose another game to any other SEC team the last 3 years he played. 21-3 in the SEC his last 3 years. Not bad, but not EJ....or LeFevour. Btw, Florida was pretty great.

[Kelly the Dog]

Man, it's hilarious how people keep saying that FSU doesn't have offensive talent. Rashard Greene is unreal. He had 4 WRs who could start for almost any team in the country last year.

Including the John Skelton for Mario trade proposal, that may be the single stupidest, ill-informed, ridiculous sentence I have ever seen on this board. :lol: :lol:

That's a beaut.

 

All four would start over Marqis Lee and Robert Woods? All four would start over Austin and Stedman?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[thebandit27]

Ummm...

 

Wow...yeah...that's gotta knock the credibility down a bit...

[John Cocktosten]

Please show me something that would indicate otherwise, because, so far, NFL talent evaluators don't believe that's the case.

BTW, as for the "ton of offensive talent" around Manuel, I keep hearing that from FSU fans, but it's hardly the case. I think it's a matter of looking at high school recruiting and repeating it over and over to themselves. For starters, they have no TE worth much. As for the WR's, sure they had a bunch of 4- and 5-star recruits, but they're just not that good, and the best of the bunch, Rashad Greene, is a sophomore who still has a lot of improving to do. They had a decent running game. And their OL, which is supposed to be a strength, was a weakness is several games, most notable the NC State and aforementioned Florida games.

 

Athlon is a pretty good college source. Here is a list of the top WR corps going into 2012:

6. Florida State – If the Seminoles can find the right mix on the offensive line, quarterback EJ Manuel is going to have a huge season. Rashad Greene was one of the ACC’s top receivers last season, even after missing four games due to injury. Look for the sophomore lead the team in receptions, yards and touchdowns in 2012. Senior Rodney Smith caught 36 passes last year and is back as a solid No. 2 threat. The Seminoles are loaded with options outside of Greene and Smith, including sophomore Christian Green and juniors Willie Haulstead and Kenny Shaw. Redshirt freshman Kelvin Benjamin has the talent to become a major factor in the receiving corps in 2012.

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-20-wide-receiving-corps-2012

 

 

Huh? That's 6 out of how many?

[John Cocktosten]

Including the John Skelton for Mario trade proposal, that may be the single stupidest, ill-informed, ridiculous sentence I have ever seen on this board. :lol: :lol:

That's a beaut.

 

Ill informed? Not sure if serious. Read the link ranking the top WR Corps going into last year. But I'm sure Athlon is a terrible source. Might want to watch the language, I'm sure beerball is watching.

[thebandit27]

If you really think Baylor is playing with more talent than FSU then I think we can end this now. Gordon didn't play with RG3 during his Heisman campaign and neither did Watkins.

 

The ACC's 1-8 record vs the Big12 the last 3 years. The Big 12 offensively and defensively is a way better conference and it's been proven on the field.

 

I said EJ was good but that's it. He basically a 4 year starter who never took the next step and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. Sorry if you don't like it but I'm very convicted.

 

Yes, proven...apparently by the following FBS defensive rankings:

 

Baylor - 113th

Iowa State - 87th

Kansas - 118th

Kansas State - 28th (downright impressive)

Oklahoma - 50th

Okla State - 64th

TCU - 30th

Texas - 74th

Texas Tech - 92nd

West Virginia - 117th

 

Seriously man...nobody's arguing that the ACC is a defensive power, but come on

 

Athlon is a pretty good college source. Here is a list of the top WR corps going into 2012:

6. Florida State – If the Seminoles can find the right mix on the offensive line, quarterback EJ Manuel is going to have a huge season. Rashad Greene was one of the ACC’s top receivers last season, even after missing four games due to injury. Look for the sophomore lead the team in receptions, yards and touchdowns in 2012. Senior Rodney Smith caught 36 passes last year and is back as a solid No. 2 threat. The Seminoles are loaded with options outside of Greene and Smith, including sophomore Christian Green and juniors Willie Haulstead and Kenny Shaw. Redshirt freshman Kelvin Benjamin has the talent to become a major factor in the receiving corps in 2012.

http://www.athlonspo...ving-corps-2012

 

 

Huh? That's 6 out of how many?

 

As I said, if all 3 of those guys are first or second round picks, then apparently NFL talent evaluators will have felt that FSU's offensive talent is equal to that of Baylor's (according to their numbers, not mine). Until then, it's not looking so good for your argument.

 

Also, I'm dying to know how using stats to support a stance is unacceptable to you, but using Athlon Sports pre-season WR rankings is reasonable?

Edited May 6, 2013 by thebandit27

[John Cocktosten]

You said ALL FOUR COULD START for almost any team in the country. No team starts five WR. That means every one of his receivers, in your opinion, is better than almost every receiver in the country.

 

No, I said that he had 4 WRs that could start for ALMOST any team in the country. Not sure what you're reading. Maybe jumped the gun on that one.

Read the link too. Make sure you pay attention to the college articles about the best WR corps this year. I bet FSU is in the top 3 but they have no talent. I really don't think you understand how much talent they have and get year after year. They have been in the top 5 3 years that EJs been there. Seriously, you're out of your element Donny.

[C.Biscuit97]

No, I said that he had 4 WRs that could start for ALMOST any team in the country. Not sure what you're reading. Maybe jumped the gun on that one.

Read the link too. Make sure you pay attention to the college articles about the best WR corps this year. I bet FSU is in the top 3 but they have no talent. I really don't think you understand how much talent they have and get year after year. They have been in the top 5 3 years that EJs been there. Seriously, you're out of your element Donny.

 

http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/AllTimeNFLDraft.html

 

Top 5 defensively sure. But if you are talking about offense, the NFL hasn't noticed.

[Doc]

Athlon is a pretty good college source. Here is a list of the top WR corps going into 2012:

6. Florida State – If the Seminoles can find the right mix on the offensive line, quarterback EJ Manuel is going to have a huge season. Rashad Greene was one of the ACC’s top receivers last season, even after missing four games due to injury. Look for the sophomore lead the team in receptions, yards and touchdowns in 2012. Senior Rodney Smith caught 36 passes last year and is back as a solid No. 2 threat. The Seminoles are loaded with options outside of Greene and Smith, including sophomore Christian Green and juniors Willie Haulstead and Kenny Shaw. Redshirt freshman Kelvin Benjamin has the talent to become a major factor in the receiving corps in 2012.

http://www.athlonspo...ving-corps-2012

 

 

Huh? That's 6 out of how many?

That's a preview of the 2012 season. The senior (Smith, who didn't get drafted) and junior WR's were a disappointment. Kelvin Benjamin showed promise but was just a freshman. I mentioned that Rashad Greene had a nice season, but again he was just a sophomore and still has a lot of improving to do. And notice the "if the Seminoles can find the right mix on the offensive line" comment.