Article on Alonso's potential impact...also tidbits on EJ3

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Not sure about Kiko having the candle power to be the QB of the Bills defense. Not sure how smart Bradham is but maybe he's a better choice?

 

Kiko appears to have good football intelligence. He's also a very fiery and passionate player. I can see him being the leader of this defense just as he was on Oregon's defense.

 

Here are 6 condensed games of his from the 2012 season: http://draftbreakdown.com/players/kiko-alonso

 

So far I've watched all but the USC game.

 

In watching him, I've been trying to figure out who he reminds me of and it finally struck me last night.

 

Kiko was measured at the combine at exactly 6'3" and 238 pounds. http://footballsfuture.com/2013/combine/olb.html

 

At his pro day he ran a pair of 40s timed at 4.74 which isn't tremendously fast but isn't slow either.

 

By comparison Paul Posluszny ran his 40 in 4.70 although Poz definitely played slower than his timed speed and Kiko definitely plays faster than his.

 

Poz also weighed 238 pounds at the combine but was an inch shorter than Kiko and you can see that they have very different builds. In spite of only a slight difference in their measurables, Kiko is a longer, rangier player. Poz has the appearance of being shorter and squatter.

 

Shane Conlan like Kiko measured at 6'3" and 235 pounds and ran a 4.7 forty. He had the big neck like Poz but the long, rangy build like Kiko.

 

Conlan had long, skinny legs and despite his ordinary forty time, played faster than his timed speed like Kiko does.

 

I find Kiko and Conlan to be very similar players.

 

Watching the Kiko videos it looks like he's very instinctive and also that he has good vision. Some linebackers lose track of where the ball is but that never seems to be the case with Kiko. Like Conlan he plays "in forward" and is very aggressive but his overall movement skills are excellent and he moves sideways and backwards equally well. He flips his hips well and is outstanding in coverage. Kiko also has excellent hands. This kid could have been a tight end.

 

Kiko will be the Bills passing downs linebacker. Mark these words. He will start from day one.

 

He also has long arms and active hands and does not get wired to blockers very easily. He stays clean compared to most linebackers but also appears to stack and shed well. In spite of his seemingly reckless and forward style Kiko is more of a wrap tackler than he is an impact tackler. He's pretty sure handed and gets the ballcarrier on the ground even when it's not a direct hit.

 

Once in awhile he takes a bad pursuit angle but that's the same with all linebackers. In Kiko's case I think he was coached to use an inside-out leverage so in spite of his fast playing speed, his errors usually happen when he loses outside containment (can't get outside fast enough). This doesn't happen very often though.

 

As with Conlan, my main concern with Kiko is his reckless playing style. He throws his body around a lot, going airborne numerous times a game.

 

It looks to me like similar to Conlan, that Kiko will be injury-prone and have a short career. Just a guess.

 

But make no mistake, this guy is an outstanding football player.

[NickelCity]

Ditto everything said above by sjbf. I honestly think Kiko will be a star.

[Alphadawg7]

Kiko was by many considered the best player on that Defense last year, even over Dion Jordan. This kid can ball and he will without a shadow of a doubt be the week 1 starter IMO. Assuming he stays healthy, I think this kid will compete for DROY next year. I watched him play a lot at Oregon and he was a guy who always stood out on D. He has range, is a sure tackler, and great football instincts. Add in the passion and tenacity, and you got the makings of a future leader on D and impact player. I was very high on the Byrd pick on draft night when we selected him, and I am equally as high on this pick. Cant wait for training camp!

 

As far as EJ goes...the ONLY reason anyone here or anyone in the media think the Bills reached is because they are all uninformed pundits who only know who might go here or there because of meaningless mock drafts by people who have literally ZERO idea of how players are being viewed by the NFL minds. These NFL minds who make actual football decisions have a massive, and I mean massive, amount of more information on the prospects between interviews, private workouts, film studies, professional scout evaluations, medical records, etc etc. Not to mention, these idiot pundits have no idea of what traits a team values higher when targeting a given position...for instance, is the team looking for a dual threat at QB, pocket passer, stronger arm, etc. They guess...and usually guess wrong

 

At least this article and some others are finally showing how little the idiots like Kiper and Mayock know about anything. Teams viewed EJ a lot higher than these idiots but because these idiots who are paid to be wrong (see Kipers grade of Seattles draft last year, worst rated by him even though it was the best draft of any team) over and over again yet people still flip out and react when things do not go as they predict.

 

EJ does not have to start this year as we have Vets to keep the seat warm, however, I think EJ has a significant shot at flat out winning the job (which is what he will have to do if he wants to start week 1) based on how everyone is learning a new system too. I think EJ's overall skill set will win out and he will start week 1.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[LynchMob23]

This game shows some of his best/worst as SJBS mentioned:

 

Notice how at times he slips blocks but rarely is taking them on. I think Pettine in particular is done with the Bart Scott "Stuntman" MLB and will sacrifice a little power for more speed?

[GaryPinC]

The article said EJ was the best QB in the draft by far, so how is that reaching?

 

PTR

 

I believe Kiper gave us a poor grade on the draft primarily because of his doubts about Manuel's ability. Manuel was drafted well before the rest of his QB class, a class that has been panned in the press as being of poor quality. If he is a bust for us, most would conclude we reached too much to get him and should have taken ________ at that draft position. I am happy with what the Bills did and arguing about opinions seems useless.

 

 

Kiko appears to have good football intelligence. He's also a very fiery and passionate player. I can see him being the leader of this defense just as he was on Oregon's defense.

 

Here are 6 condensed games of his from the 2012 season: http://draftbreakdow...ers/kiko-alonso

 

So far I've watched all but the USC game.

 

In watching him, I've been trying to figure out who he reminds me of and it finally struck me last night.

 

Kiko was measured at the combine at exactly 6'3" and 238 pounds. http://footballsfutu...ombine/olb.html

 

At his pro day he ran a pair of 40s timed at 4.74 which isn't tremendously fast but isn't slow either.

 

By comparison Paul Posluszny ran his 40 in 4.70 although Poz definitely played slower than his timed speed and Kiko definitely plays faster than his.

 

Poz also weighed 238 pounds at the combine but was an inch shorter than Kiko and you can see that they have very different builds. In spite of only a slight difference in their measurables, Kiko is a longer, rangier player. Poz has the appearance of being shorter and squatter.

 

Shane Conlan like Kiko measured at 6'3" and 235 pounds and ran a 4.7 forty. He had the big neck like Poz but the long, rangy build like Kiko.

 

Conlan had long, skinny legs and despite his ordinary forty time, played faster than his timed speed like Kiko does.

 

I find Kiko and Conlan to be very similar players.

 

Watching the Kiko videos it looks like he's very instinctive and also that he has good vision. Some linebackers lose track of where the ball is but that never seems to be the case with Kiko. Like Conlan he plays "in forward" and is very aggressive but his overall movement skills are excellent and he moves sideways and backwards equally well. He flips his hips well and is outstanding in coverage. Kiko also has excellent hands. This kid could have been a tight end.

 

Kiko will be the Bills passing downs linebacker. Mark these words. He will start from day one.

 

He also has long arms and active hands and does not get wired to blockers very easily. He stays clean compared to most linebackers but also appears to stack and shed well. In spite of his seemingly reckless and forward style Kiko is more of a wrap tackler than he is an impact tackler. He's pretty sure handed and gets the ballcarrier on the ground even when it's not a direct hit.

 

Once in awhile he takes a bad pursuit angle but that's the same with all linebackers. In Kiko's case I think he was coached to use an inside-out leverage so in spite of his fast playing speed, his errors usually happen when he loses outside containment (can't get outside fast enough). This doesn't happen very often though.

 

As with Conlan, my main concern with Kiko is his reckless playing style. He throws his body around a lot, going airborne numerous times a game.

 

It looks to me like similar to Conlan, that Kiko will be injury-prone and have a short career. Just a guess.

 

But make no mistake, this guy is an outstanding football player.

 

Great stuff SJBF, thanks for sharing all of this. Hopefully coaches can refine Kiko's techniques and prolong his career.

[KeisterHollow]

Is it like "wasting" a #9 pick on CJ Spiller? So it's not enough to draft good players anymore. Now they have to be drafted at the right spot?

 

PTR

 

All this "reaching" talk is nonsense! No one knows what any of the QB needy teams would have done had EJ been available after the Bills selected 16th - but, it's CERTAIN that everyone here would have been ready to burn One Bills Drive down had EJ been passed by Buffalo, and some other team came up and selected him, and he turned out to be a franchise QB - perhaps the only one of the group this year.

Even a GOOD QB in the NFL is worth a top 10 pick. A QB who has a rocket arm, who is accurate, SMART, a good character guy, AND who can run - those traits - ala Cam Newton, and Kaepernick - don't last long on draft day for a reason. Guys like that simply don't come out every year.

 

NFL personnel will tell everyone - there is no such thing as reaching - ESPECIALLY the teams that have traditionally drafted good, like Pittsburgh, for instance. They take who they like, and when that player ends up being a starter - it wasn't a reach, no matter where they were taken.

 

One other thing - PLEASE do not cheapen our QB, and make the fans of Buffalo look stupid, and desperate enough, to accept AND COME UP WITH, a nickname for our QB based PURELY off the name of another QB drafted last year with no connection to our own QB!!!! Please! Lets give him HIS OWN nickname!!!

NO EJ3 ala Robert Griffin III

and NO SuperManuel ala Cam Newton

we need one of our own...

Edited May 7, 2013 by KeisterHollow

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Is it like "wasting" a #9 pick on CJ Spiller? So it's not enough to draft good players anymore. Now they have to be drafted at the right spot?

 

PTR

Uhhh no. Spiller was not a need pick in the sense that we had a player or two at that spot already. Whitner was a need pick just like EJ was. Whitner is not a bad player but was treated badly by the fans because of the position he was taken. If you want players to sign a second contract the role of the fans has a piece in that. I think the fans will be easier on EJ because "we needed a qb" and "it's the most important position on the field". I just hope the fans give him time to develop without jumping all over him early. It looks like he may need some time to pick the nfl game up.

[ColdBlueNorth]

Good read - would like to know who those other sources were, but probably asking too much. Suffice it to say they were not highly placed ESPN draft resources.

[eball]

Uhhh no. Spiller was not a need pick in the sense that we had a player or two at that spot already. Whitner was a need pick just like EJ was. Whitner is not a bad player but was treated badly by the fans because of the position he was taken. If you want players to sign a second contract the role of the fans has a piece in that. I think the fans will be easier on EJ because "we needed a qb" and "it's the most important position on the field". I just hope the fans give him time to develop without jumping all over him early. It looks like he may need some time to pick the nfl game up.

 

Somebody please explain this statement, because I keep seeing it thrown around without anything to back it up.

 

-- Manuel supposedly had no problems running an FSU offense others have called "complicated"

-- At the Senior Bowl Manuel outshined all other QBs, leading to his election as team captain and an MVP award

-- At pre-draft interviews, Manuel was reportedly sharp as a tack and able to discuss offensive/defensive concepts without giving the impression he had been "schooled up"

 

Where is the data to support the notion Manuel will be slow to pick up the NFL game?

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Somebody please explain this statement, because I keep seeing it thrown around without anything to back it up.

 

-- Manuel supposedly had no problems running an FSU offense others have called "complicated"

-- At the Senior Bowl Manuel outshined all other QBs, leading to his election as team captain and an MVP award

-- At pre-draft interviews, Manuel was reportedly sharp as a tack and able to discuss offensive/defensive concepts without giving the impression he had been "schooled up"

 

Where is the data to support the notion Manuel will be slow to pick up the NFL game?

Why does there have to be data? It's my opinion, plain and simple. My concern is when he is under pressure he did not do as well as when he had time. I thought it was noticeable and think he will need to adjust to getting the ball off quicker. You may take that for what it is.

 

Each one of your points does have a counter point; like he was only asked to read half the field at FSU, while not his fault it still will mean an adjustment from him at game speed; scouts don't put much creedence in the senior bowl game itself and no qb stood out in practices; and I didn't see anybody talking about his discussion of concepts other than the Bills and they're not going to say anything bad at this time, although Chris Brown did mention this under question 3:

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2013/05/03/fan-friday-5-3/

 

At the same time even the Bills brass has admitted that Manuel is not a finished product. So unless he’s outstanding in his first camp and preseason I do expect Kolb to start the season under center.

 

The only "data" will come from his performance at the NFL level. I am glad we have Kolb as competition in case EJ has issues handling the changes. Hopefully EJ will validate Buffalos pre draft selection process.

[Koufax]

I believe the justification for calling EJ a reach is that we could have gotten more than an extra second and seventh round pick if we would have slid down even further, may be to 20.

 

We used our first round pick (#8) on the quarterback of our choosing (after as thorough a search and evaluation process as this franchise has ever conducted), a linebacker with starting potential and a project tight end. I'm baffled that some fans can criticize the allocation of that pick by saying we might have gotten more.

 

Potential franchise QBs go in the top 10 when the chances are viewed as high (even if the outcome isn't) and in the later first round to early second when there are some concerns on ceiling or probability of success.

 

There are three parts of any reach calculation:

 

1) Was the guy you got the best player you could have drafted in that spot?

2) Was there near certainty you could have gotten him with the next pick?

3) If not in second round, with a pick in between by trading back/up?

 

Some accuse of us reaching based on positional need, because they think there were more valuable players (at the same position or otherwise) available at #16. I am doubtful that there was or that a good chance at a franchise QB isn't worth the #16 pick.

 

The second part of near certainty of getting him in round two, I think there should have been CONSIDERABLE doubts about him lasting until #41, with Philly and the Jets both being possibilities. We will never really know, but sitting at #41 and watching the QB you want go off the board would be silly if he is significantly higher on your board than the other QBs.

 

The third part is the one where there are some reasonable arguments. Unless another team jumped up to get him after we traded back, it was unlikely he was going anywhere in picks 17-25. That is still a big if, and unless you think no other team values him at 25 or so your risks in moving back/up to take him later are significant. But I tend to think he would have been there still in the low 20s, and maybe that would have been a poker hand worth playing to maximize draft value. Looks great if the poker hand plays out well after finding a trade partner, but looks terrible if you push your luck and get burnt. What we would have added for a trade down just isn't worth getting the QB you think will be the best.

 

Until he performs or the Eagles say they were interested, there will be those calling him a reach. But if he becomes our starter and performs well this will be really silly. We got our extra 2nd in the process, and used a #16 pick. Way lower than the Whitner, McKelvin, and Maybin picks to finally try to fix a huge long lasting void at the QB position.

[eball]

Why does there have to be data? It's my opinion, plain and simple. My concern is when he is under pressure he did not do as well as when he had time. I thought it was noticeable and think he will need to adjust to getting the ball off quicker. You may take that for what it is.

 

Each one of your points does have a counter point; like he was only asked to read half the field at FSU, while not his fault it still will mean an adjustment from him at game speed; scouts don't put much creedence in the senior bowl game itself and no qb stood out in practices; and I didn't see anybody talking about his discussion of concepts other than the Bills and they're not going to say anything bad at this time, although Chris Brown did mention this under question 3:

 

http://blogs.buffalo...fan-friday-5-3/

 

At the same time even the Bills brass has admitted that Manuel is not a finished product. So unless he’s outstanding in his first camp and preseason I do expect Kolb to start the season under center.

 

The only "data" will come from his performance at the NFL level. I am glad we have Kolb as competition in case EJ has issues handling the changes. Hopefully EJ will validate Buffalos pre draft selection process.

 

First of all, what rookie QB is a "finished product?" Did Andrew Luck and his 19 INTs last season prove he has nothing to learn? I'm talking about specific examples that lead anyone to believe EJ would be slower to pick up the NFL game than his counterparts. And I can't find any.

 

By the way, Chris Brown doesn't know diddly poo about the Bills' plans -- those are just his opinions.

[Doc]

 

 

I believe the justification for calling EJ a reach is that we could have gotten more than an extra second and seventh round pick if we would have slid down even further, may be to 20.

We're the Bears looking to trade up? Looking at how the draft unfolded, the 49ers traded up to 18, but the bills would've had to mve down to 31, and they would've risked losing him. Similarly, the Falcons traded up to 22, but that would've meant moving down to 30, which again presents the same problem.

[Saint Doug]

I find it very surreal and even comforting that people think the Bills took the best QB in this year's draft. Who would have guessed?

[Doc]

I find it very surreal and even comforting that people think the Bills took the best QB in this year's draft. Who would have guessed?

Rarely does a team have the pick of the QB litter at 8th overall, much less 16th overall.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Kiko was by many considered the best player on that Defense last year, even over Dion Jordan. This kid can ball and he will without a shadow of a doubt be the week 1 starter IMO. Assuming he stays healthy, I think this kid will compete for DROY next year. I watched him play a lot at Oregon and he was a guy who always stood out on D. He has range, is a sure tackler, and great football instincts. Add in the passion and tenacity, and you got the makings of a future leader on D and impact player. I was very high on the Byrd pick on draft night when we selected him, and I am equally as high on this pick. Cant wait for training camp!

 

As far as EJ goes...the ONLY reason anyone here or anyone in the media think the Bills reached is because they are all uninformed pundits who only know who might go here or there because of meaningless mock drafts by people who have literally ZERO idea of how players are being viewed by the NFL minds. These NFL minds who make actual football decisions have a massive, and I mean massive, amount of more information on the prospects between interviews, private workouts, film studies, professional scout evaluations, medical records, etc etc. Not to mention, these idiot pundits have no idea of what traits a team values higher when targeting a given position...for instance, is the team looking for a dual threat at QB, pocket passer, stronger arm, etc. They guess...and usually guess wrong

 

At least this article and some others are finally showing how little the idiots like Kiper and Mayock know about anything. Teams viewed EJ a lot higher than these idiots but because these idiots who are paid to be wrong (see Kipers grade of Seattles draft last year, worst rated by him even though it was the best draft of any team) over and over again yet people still flip out and react when things do not go as they predict.

 

EJ does not have to start this year as we have Vets to keep the seat warm, however, I think EJ has a significant shot at flat out winning the job (which is what he will have to do if he wants to start week 1) based on how everyone is learning a new system too. I think EJ's overall skill set will win out and he will start week 1.

 

In defense of idiot Mayock, he did put EJ @ #2 in his revised rankings after not having had him in his top 5. Said something to the effect that if he was going to make a mistake on a QB, it might as well be the be the one with the best combination of size, speed and arm talent and having the most upside. He really liked him more after his FSU pro day which he attended. The other idiot you were thinking of was McShay, I do believe.

[Kelly the Dog]

Somebody please explain this statement, because I keep seeing it thrown around without anything to back it up.

 

-- Manuel supposedly had no problems running an FSU offense others have called "complicated"

-- At the Senior Bowl Manuel outshined all other QBs, leading to his election as team captain and an MVP award

-- At pre-draft interviews, Manuel was reportedly sharp as a tack and able to discuss offensive/defensive concepts without giving the impression he had been "schooled up"

 

Where is the data to support the notion Manuel will be slow to pick up the NFL game?

The difference would be I guess the equivalent of book smart versus street smart. It's not the best analogy, but it's somewhat the same thing.

 

Being smart, intelligent, being able to pick up an offense quickly, or describe it eloquently in a classroom, working on your masters, getting a high score on the Wonderlic, etc, all of which Manuel has or did, is ONE kind of smart. They are all different but fall into one category. I don't think anyone questions any of these kinds of smarts that Manuel possesses.

 

The other kind of smart, is making quick, decisive, consistently good decisions on a football field under intense pressure and especially when the rush is on. A player can be a genius in all of the aforementioned forms of smart, and a moron in this kind of smart, always making poor or hurried decisions, not knowing when to release the ball, not going through your progressions, etc. Manuel's harshest critics always point to this kind of smart, and if he is capable of making quick, good, decisive decisions in the NFL. That remains to be seen, but all the Wonderlic and masters and classroom and picking up offenses stuff I don't think much enters into this kind of smart.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

First of all, what rookie QB is a "finished product?" Did Andrew Luck and his 19 INTs last season prove he has nothing to learn? I'm talking about specific examples that lead anyone to believe EJ would be slower to pick up the NFL game than his counterparts. And I can't find any.

 

By the way, Chris Brown doesn't know diddly poo about the Bills' plans -- those are just his opinions.

Some are more finished than others of course, the question is will he be ready to start in September. I think if any team thought he could definitely start day one he would have been the first overall pick. Not that it's a lock with any rookie, but it does say something that he was drafted at 16. I hope Buddy is as correct about EJ as he was about Glenn.

 

It seems like EJ will "pick it up " just fine but the question will be can he execute enough of the playbook to be useful, even as a backup. That's how Ben started in Pittsburgh, as a backup. If EJ doesn't win the job you will know how well he is doing if the team lets the veteran backup go. It will mean they feel comfortable with EJ running the offense at some level especially if Kolb happens to win, given his injury history.

 

Chris Brown reported on what the Bills brass said. I don't think the teams reporter could make a statement like that without some basis to it and I don't think it's his opinion.

[Alaska Darin]

Kiko appears to have good football intelligence. He's also a very fiery and passionate player. I can see him being the leader of this defense just as he was on Oregon's defense....

 

But make no mistake, this guy is an outstanding football player.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I watched them play in the Rose Bowl his Jr. season and the dude was everywhere. Very impressive in coverage and slippery as hell. He gave Russell Wilson fits.

[billsfan89]

Is it like "wasting" a #9 pick on CJ Spiller? So it's not enough to draft good players anymore. Now they have to be drafted at the right spot?

 

PTR

 

Well we did have Lynch and Freddie at the time so drafting CJ was at the time was a luxury when there were so many other needs for a team devoid of talent at a lot of positions. I am just saying while CJ was a good pick because he is a good player but had we found a good player at another position that pick could have been more useful.