We should have taken Nassib in the 4th

[Mr. WEO]

There is a huge difference between Manuel and Nassib. Manuel compares to RGIII like Nassib compares to Cousins. And if Manuel wasn't in the draft, I'd bet they'd have gone with Barkley.

 

When did you come to this conclusion?

 

Last year, every mock had RG3 going 1 or 2. No mock I found had EJ going as the first QB drafted--not even the great Mike Mayock or Jaws. In fact, I saw more guys picking Nassib to be the first or second QB taken in the draft. And now, suddenly, EJ is to Nassib what RG3 was to Cousins??

[RuntheDamnBall]

When did you come to this conclusion?

 

Last year, every mock had RG3 going 1 or 2. No mock I found had EJ going as the first QB drafted--not even the great Mike Mayock or Jaws. In fact, I saw more guys picking Nassib to be the first or second QB taken in the draft. And now, suddenly, EJ is to Nassib what RG3 was to Cousins??

And, if he isn't, doesn't that basically confirm what everyone says the problem would be -- that they'd be on equal footing in competing for the job, which serves neither QB's development well?

[DasNootz]

When did you come to this conclusion?

 

Last year, every mock had RG3 going 1 or 2. No mock I found had EJ going as the first QB drafted--not even the great Mike Mayock or Jaws. In fact, I saw more guys picking Nassib to be the first or second QB taken in the draft. And now, suddenly, EJ is to Nassib what RG3 was to Cousins??

Nassib was only given 1st round consideration because of the connection with Marrone. Nobody that actually watched any SU football this season thought that his "fair market value" was 1st round worthy.

 

Correction: The Jets hyped Nassib so that the Bills might be persuaded to take him at 8 and leave Austin for their pick. I'm glad we called that bluff.

Edited May 2, 2013 by DasNootz

[JPS]

I like Jaws the most on your list. Jaws is insightful while being humble enough to not act as if he invented the game of football.

 

Gruden is a pompous jerk who acts as if he invented the game of football. Not a fan as you can tell.The other guys I can take or leave.

 

To each his own. Great that you enjoy and respect them. No heartburn from me with your likes.

I think part of it is Schtick. If any of them were mealy and indecisive, it just wouldn't work.

[Doc]

When did you come to this conclusion?

 

Last year, every mock had RG3 going 1 or 2. No mock I found had EJ going as the first QB drafted--not even the great Mike Mayock or Jaws. In fact, I saw more guys picking Nassib to be the first or second QB taken in the draft. And now, suddenly, EJ is to Nassib what RG3 was to Cousins??

I wasn't talking about rankings because they mean diddly. I was talking about athleticism and upside.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Nassib was only given 1st round consideration because of the connection with Marrone. Nobody that actually watched any SU football this season thought that his "fair market value" was 1st round worthy.

 

Correction: The Jets hyped Nassib so that the Bills might be persuaded to take him at 8 and leave Austin for their pick. I'm glad we called that bluff.

I think they were nuts, but there were Russ Lande and Cosell out there blowing the Nassib horn. Now, guys have gotten picked late and made teams look silly for not choosing them earlier, but Nassib ain't getting that chance for awhile unless Eli gets hurt, and he most likely won't be getting that chance with the team that has drafted him.

[RK_BillsFan]

This is stupid, if Nassib was worth a pick, his coach of multiple years would have picked him knowing what he could do. Are you trying to say that our new Head Coach doesn't know a better QB when he see's one? IMO I like the guy we got in FA. Nassib was simply not that good. We had far more pressing needs than, to have yet ANOTHER QB being given reps to learn a new offence. And no Nassib would not know the current offence we are planing to run since Marroune changed the offence he wanted to run to better suit Nassib's limitations. The right call was to take anything that was not a QB or RB in the 4th.

[Kelly the Dog]

This is stupid, if Nassib was worth a pick, his coach of multiple years would have picked him knowing what he could do. Are you trying to say that our new Head Coach doesn't know a better QB when he see's one? IMO I like the guy we got in FA. Nassib was simply not that good. We had far more pressing needs than, to have yet ANOTHER QB being given reps to learn a new offence. And no Nassib would not know the current offence we are planing to run since Marroune changed the offence he wanted to run to better suit Nassib's limitations. The right call was to take anything that was not a QB or RB in the 4th.

We don't know that at all. It could easily be that Marrone thought Nassib was very, very good, and could be a star in the NFL. There is every reason to believe this is true, especially because these coaches including Marrone all have big egos, and all think they can make these guys into superstars.

 

He probably loves Nassib and still loves Nassib, as a player and as a kid. He simply decided that EJ is bigger, and stronger, and faster, and has a better arm than Nassib, and he can make a grandslam instead of a homerun out of him.

[DasNootz]

We don't know that at all. It could easily be that Marrone thought Nassib was very, very good, and could be a star in the NFL. There is every reason to believe this is true, especially because these coaches including Marrone all have big egos, and all think they can make these guys into superstars.

 

He probably loves Nassib and still loves Nassib, as a player and as a kid. He simply decided that EJ is bigger, and stronger, and faster, and has a better arm than Nassib, and he can make a grandslam instead of a homerun out of him.

Do you honestly think if Marrone thought that Nassib was a "star" he would pass up a sure thing that he already knew well for a project with upside knowing that his career will likely hinge on this decision?

[Ozymandius]

The Bills definitely should have drafted more QBs. I just hope, if Manuel struggles this season, the Bills don't hesitate to use next year's first-rounder on a QB as well. There is no reason to marry ourselves to this project long-term. Hit it and quit it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The Bills definitely should have drafted more QBs. I just hope, if Manuel struggles this season, the Bills don't hesitate to use next year's first-rounder on a QB as well. There is no reason to marry ourselves to this project long-term. Hit it and quit it.

 

We shouldn't have drafted more QB this year, because this was widely acknowledged to be a shallow QB pond.

I agree, we shouldn't hesitate to use next year's 1st rounder on a QB if Manuel turns into our Blaine Gabbert.

[Kelly the Dog]

Do you honestly think if Marrone thought that Nassib was a "star" he would pass up a sure thing that he already knew well for a project with upside knowing that his career will likely hinge on this decision?

He wouldn't under any circumstances KNOW Nassib was going to be a star. I'm saying he believed he was going to be a franchise quarterback under Marrone's own tutelage, but simply thought that Manuel had significantly better tools, and the equivalent of brain power (they both scored extremely high in Wonderlic) and leadership qualities.

 

Put it this way: Marrone could easily believe that if he had EJ Manuel all three years instead of Ryan Nassib, EJ Manuel would have come out of college as the clear cut #1 overall QB because of his superior skill set and size. But that doesn't take away anything from his belief that Nassib would be a franchise guy, too.

[Koufax]

1) Duke is a better player than Nassib and we had a higher need at S than QB, 2) we just signed Kolb, 3) Marrone & his staff knows Nassib's strengths and weaknesses and does not think Nassib will be that good in the NFL, 3) EJ doesn't need the coach's former QB breathing down his neck.

 

I think this nails it on the head. If we hadn't taken EJ, Nassib might have been a great value gamble in the third (I think if you aren't willing to take a QB in the third, then he probably isn't going to be a guy you are counting on for anything...even with Brady, the Patriots weren't ready to spend a FIFTH rounder on him). I think with EJ, it becomes a pick that probably adds very little value (if he really is ahead of Kolb/TJax as short term starter or longer term backup?), and creates a controversy on the player you are grooming, because of the coach connection and the headstart on the scheme.

 

Simply put he had to be better than Kolb right now to make a 3rd (or 4th) worth it, and I think it is pretty clear that he is not better than Kolb right now. And I think a QB controversy would be more of a detriment to our team right now, than any "pushing and making both better" benefit.

 

We handle the next two seasons with the full faith that EJ is going to be our franchise QB, and do everything possible to develop him, and to win with experience when he isn't ready to start. If something really major shows up in his rookie year before next year's draft that makes you realize he was a huge mistake, you can consider looking at the 2014 QB class, but absent something hugely disappointing, we have bet the 2013 and 2014 seasons on this guy and expect him to take over for Kolb within that window, and can evaluate how it all played out prior to the 2015 draft if necessary.

[transient]

He wouldn't under any circumstances KNOW Nassib was going to be a star. I'm saying he believed he was going to be a franchise quarterback under Marrone's own tutelage, but simply thought that Manuel had significantly better tools, and the equivalent of brain power (they both scored extremely high in Wonderlic) and leadership qualities.

 

Put it this way: Marrone could easily believe that if he had EJ Manuel all three years instead of Ryan Nassib, EJ Manuel would have come out of college as the clear cut #1 overall QB because of his superior skill set and size. But that doesn't take away anything from his belief that Nassib would be a franchise guy, too.

 

I think this is exactly the point that I was trying to make earlier. By taking Manuel over Nassib, regardless of what Marrone thinks Nassib's potential is, be it HOFer, franchise QB, reliable starter, stop-gap, backup, or training camp fodder, he thinks the difference between the two is significant enough to warrant choosing the unfamiliar over the known commodity. If the difference was minimal, Nassib's famiiarity with Marrone and his offense alone would be enough to warrant taking him over Manuel. Whatever difference the FO perceives between Manuel and Nassib, it's not subtle.

[Alphadawg7]

Someone needs to explain to me why we had safety Duke Williams rated as a better move for this organization than to take Nassib in the 4th round. THE FOURTH ROUND !

 

Look what happened to the Seahawks last year, they took a QB in the third round (and got blasted for it by the Kipers of the world) even though they had their QB situation shored up. They open the competition in training camp and find that their third round draft pick Russel Wilson is quickly grasping the NFL game and it changes their entire team to a serious playoff contender.

 

Forget all the "well we coached him at SU so he's a good fit" crap, I don't care if he played for Kutztown State--in a time when all we talk about is getting a good quarterback for this team, here's a guy that was VERY highly rated by some experienced NFL men sitting there in the fourth freaking round and we decide to take a safety that won't even see the field this year.

 

The right call was to take Nassib, release Tarvaris Jackson, and go into training camp with Kolb, Manuel and Nassib. May the best man win.

 

This league is about maximizing your chances to get a franchise quarterback. It's that simple.

 

If you think I'm wrong, send me Duke Williams stats in three years and I'll admit it.

 

So let me get this straight...the correct move was to take our HC QB from college on top of EJ who we took at 16? We took EJ to be a franchise guy, not to roll the dice. So, if the team is going to commit to a guy like EJ, you really think the best option is to take the kid who is the new HC's former guy who he is emotionally attached to?

 

Not to mention, we NEEDED a safety, and Duke was a tremendous value where we got him. He is a kid that would have been graded to go a lot earlier if it were not for off field issues to start his college career there.

 

I wouldnt have hated grabbing a 2nd QB in the 4th, but Nassib specifically would create a circus at the QB spot during the start to these young guys career. If you are that confident in EJ, then you roll with him. We have Vets who can handle the duty and didn't need more competition at QB.

 

DUKE was the better pick IMO.

[Bills4]

Someone needs to explain to me why we had safety Duke Williams rated as a better move for this organization than to take Nassib in the 4th round. THE FOURTH ROUND !

 

Look what happened to the Seahawks last year, they took a QB in the third round (and got blasted for it by the Kipers of the world) even though they had their QB situation shored up. They open the competition in training camp and find that their third round draft pick Russel Wilson is quickly grasping the NFL game and it changes their entire team to a serious playoff contender.

 

Forget all the "well we coached him at SU so he's a good fit" crap, I don't care if he played for Kutztown State--in a time when all we talk about is getting a good quarterback for this team, here's a guy that was VERY highly rated by some experienced NFL men sitting there in the fourth freaking round and we decide to take a safety that won't even see the field this year.

 

The right call was to take Nassib, release Tarvaris Jackson, and go into training camp with Kolb, Manuel and Nassib. May the best man win.

 

This league is about maximizing your chances to get a franchise quarterback. It's that simple.

 

If you think I'm wrong, send me Duke Williams stats in three years and I'll admit it.

 

This makes no sense. They picked their franchise qb. And the comparison to Russel Wilson picked in third competing against a newly signed FA is much different than drafting a qb in the first round because you think he is going to be your qb for the next 10 years. You dont pick a guy in the first round, tell him you want to develop him to be the face of the franchise, then pick a qb in the fourth and try to do the same.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

> If after one year the evaluation is that there's some doubt as to him succeeding, then draft another QB NEXT YEAR.

 

I disagree. Suppose the Bills had drafted Barkley in the third. They could have told the media, "We had Barkley rated as a first round talent, and we were shocked when he fell to the third." Privately, Manuel could be told that the Bills think that if Barkley works out as expected, they would be able to trade him away for a lot more than the third round pick used to acquire him in the first place. "We don't necessarily think he has the arm to be the long-term answer in a windy place like Buffalo," Manuel would be told, "but he might be the long-term answer somewhere else."

 

Manuel would still be somewhat displeased by the Barkley selection even after all that had been said to him. Hopefully, that displeasure would drive him to push himself that much harder.

 

Drafting a QB a year from now would have the potential to be a lot more damaging to his confidence. The meta-message to him would be, "The Bills started off with complete confidence in him. After one year, they started having second thoughts." A meta-message like that is much more threatening than a meta-message of, "We availed ourselves of a Plan B back when we drafted you, but our confidence in you has increased since then."

 

I see your points but bottom line I think there are more negatives than positives in drafting two highly-rated QBs in one year.

 

I also think it's better to draft a highly-rated QB in consecutive years if the first quarterback taken shows signs of not being the player the team projected him to be.

 

JMO.

[DrDawkinstein]

[Wayne Cubed]

He wouldn't under any circumstances KNOW Nassib was going to be a star. I'm saying he believed he was going to be a franchise quarterback under Marrone's own tutelage, but simply thought that Manuel had significantly better tools, and the equivalent of brain power (they both scored extremely high in Wonderlic) and leadership qualities.

 

Put it this way: Marrone could easily believe that if he had EJ Manuel all three years instead of Ryan Nassib, EJ Manuel would have come out of college as the clear cut #1 overall QB because of his superior skill set and size. But that doesn't take away anything from his belief that Nassib would be a franchise guy, too.

 

To add to this a bit, all indications were Marrone wanted the Bills scouting department to assess Nassib without his influence. Have someone not close or emotionally invested in him take a look. Marrone wasn't there for his Syracuse workout and didn't attend his pre-draft visit(maybe he had seen everything he needed to see while he was his coach at SU). Then once the scouting department had done all their work, the Bills collectively could look through the reports and decide. That's not a knock against Nassib, but the Bills collectively decide Manuel was the better choice, regardless of what Marrone thought of Nassib's talents.

 

Just because Marrone may have thought Nassib to be an all-star, all-pro, hall of fame QB, doesn't mean it was accurate. Yes, Marrone should be able to assess talent, but assessing talent at the college level, IMO, is completely different than at the pro level. Not to mention, tying his wagon to Nassib, could have potentially ruined his pro HC'ing career.

[machine gun kelly]

The above post was accurate that our new safeties are better value pics than Nassib.. I also see if Marrone did not pick him, that should tell you something. Of course he's going to tell you he's a star as it is Liars month before the draft, and if you follow what he did then he see the value at the pick. He probably also really likes the kid and wanted to help him get drafted. In the end, Nassib made out as he gets to learn behind an elite QB in a Manning. Manning rarely gets hurt so Nassib takes a couple years to develop and if he is really as good as people think, will get on the field in a couple of years like Aaron Rogers back in GB.

 

The second guessing needs to stop on the draft. It's silly and pointless. None of us know nor does Mayock, jaws, Gruden or anyone else how decent was the Bills draft. After training camp and the whole season if we were a bust with these guys. Think back a couple of years this board was high on Aaron Williams, Troup, and McKelvin. Then if we really go back, people scratched their heads at the Stevie Johnson late round pick. We'll know in 2015 if we had a good draft.