eball Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Brandon mentioned on WGR the other day that one of the reasons for his desire to create the department was Doug Marrone's desire for analytics information for in game use. It makes sense. Knowing opponents' (and your own) tendencies and rate of success in a wide range of game situations would be valuable information to have readily available. It is my hope that Brandon's plans for analytics include both the salary cap/moneyball aspect as well as in-game information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlaw Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 And if you were the president, would you set up this department before you settled on the GM and he decided on the people he needed to be in place? If I was President and publicly said that a certain issue was important and would be addressed I would get the ball rolling immediately. I don't want excuses I want results. Nice words and effort is not enough. Anyway Brandon knew that Whaley was the guy so he could have been brought into the process months ago and worked with Overdorf. I just hope the Team is ready before November. I thought this organisation was done with excuses. The word is Accountability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 It's interesting to me that the hatred for Russ Brandon is at an all-time high. This in the wake of an offseason that at least by appearances, is the best the Bills have had in a long time. Considering that Brandon was hired on January 1st, it's hard reconciling the immense dislike for the guy versus the team's professionally conducted coaching search, free agency period, and draft. But he ignored QB from January until March when his organization signed Kevin Kolb and then again until April when they drafted EJ Manuel! Further, any schmo with even a minor in analytics could have told them that they could have waited until exactly pick 29 to take manuel and could also have told them exactly what to trade to the team with pick 28 to get him at the last possible pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 "When Russ Brandon was named Buffalo Bills president in January, he announced that the team would be implementing a "robust" analytics department to boost football operations. Four months later, Brandon acknowledged the program does not yet exist." Linky What do you think and do you care? I always liked the concept of moneyball in the NFL but feel it may just be a pipe dream and not really feasible. Perhaps Russ spoke too soon and is starting to think the same thing? I have a friend- a 2013 college graduate- who will be spending his summer working in analytics with an AFC franchise before he starts his full-time position. He's told me that the analytics staff- which consists mostly of interns- is underwhelming for a professional football team, and that he's surprised how the team operates in that regard. I don't think Buffalo is unique in their lack of a legitimate "analytics department," though it would be interesting to see how the teams, if any, that take analytics seriously structure their personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I have a friend- a 2013 college graduate- who will be spending his summer working in analytics with an AFC franchise before he starts his full-time position. He's told me that the analytics staff- which consists mostly of interns- is underwhelming for a professional football team, and that he's surprised how the team operates in that regard. I don't think Buffalo is unique in their lack of a legitimate "analytics department," though it would be interesting to see how the teams, if any, that take analytics seriously structure their personnel. People with the analytical ability to do the things being talked about in this thread...and do it well, don't exactly grow on trees. It takes a lot more than hiring a bunch of analysts to crunch numbers to develop meaningful insights or predictive capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 People with the analytical ability to do the things being talked about in this thread...and do it well, don't exactly grow on trees. It takes a lot more than hiring a bunch of analysts to crunch numbers to develop meaningful insights or predictive capability. His thesis was fairly groundbreaking with some new formulas for calculating the optimal decision in a certain situation, though it was for basketball. I agree that such positions need a combination of mathematics skills and a willingness to innovate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) His thesis was fairly groundbreaking with some new formulas for calculating the optimal decision in a certain situation, though it was for basketball. I agree that such positions need a combination of mathematics skills and a willingness to innovate. Best of luck to your friend. Sounds like a cool gig. Edited May 21, 2013 by Kevbeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Brandon promised the creation of a ROBUST analytical dept that would be layered in. Those were his words. And so far Brandon has stated that they are using it in their strength & conditioning, and will eventually incorporate it to their salary cap management - who will be the one administrating this remains to be seen. Right. But it's still early. That they have incorporated it into their strength and conditioning is impressive to me at this EARLY stage. If you watched the presser like I did you noticed two things: Brandon is a believable talker, and Whaley appears to be a traditional GM. I don't think Whaley is the big-idea guy I agree that Whaley is the traditional talent evaluator and Brandon is the big picture/idea guy. Brandon is clearly steering the overall course of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Analytics is just another piece of the puzzle but let's be honest. It's just so nerds can get involved in sports. Football is the sport that I think analytics translated the worst too. Teams have forever been charting frequency of plays based on formation. But there are so many other factors that go into evaluating football players that numbers can't measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Analytics is just another piece of the puzzle but let's be honest. It's just so nerds can get involved in sports. Football is the sport that I think analytics translated the worst too. Teams have forever been charting frequency of plays based on formation. But there are so many other factors that go into evaluating football players that numbers can't measure. I agree. Football doesnt translate as well at all IMO. You have a smaller sample size of games, mismatches, team aspect, gameplanning, etc... Basically, it seems most teams apply "analytics" appropriately with the abundancy and logging of gamefilm. The combine also does it to a point for incoming players and is supplemented appropriately with interviewing/testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) It's interesting to me that the hatred for Russ Brandon is at an all-time high. This in the wake of an offseason that at least by appearances, is the best the Bills have had in a long time. Considering that Brandon was hired on January 1st, it's hard reconciling the immense dislike for the guy versus the team's professionally conducted coaching search, free agency period, and draft. I'm not sure if I'd call it hatred, but If Russ was as concerned with being semi-real as he is with optics, perhaps more fans wouldn't question his integrity. It's one thing to talk about establishing an analytics department and then not do it. But to tell fans the GM (who delivered no results) was going to be around for a long time, people have a right to question the guy's frame of mind and remain dubious about his motivations. Brandon's been in top level management with this organization since early 2008 and he certainly wasn't just hired 1/1/13 as you indicate. In 5 lackluster seasons he rose from COO/GM to CEO and now to team president without any on-field results. It's for that reason that people will be skeptical about Russ Brandon, as he will be identified with poor results. Edited May 21, 2013 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlaw Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I'm not sure if I'd call it hatred, but If Russ was as concerned with being semi-real as he is with optics, perhaps more fans wouldn't question his integrity. It's one thing to talk about establishing an analytics department and then not do it. But to tell fans the GM (who delivered no results) was going to be around for a long time, people have a right to question the guy's frame of mind and remain dubious about his motivations. Brandon's been in top level management with this organization since early 2008 and he certainly wasn't just hired 1/1/13 as you indicate. In 5 lackluster seasons he rose from COO/GM to CEO and now to team president without any on-field results. It's for that reason that people will be skeptical about Russ Brandon, as he will be identified with poor results. I'm with you BillsVet. Russ Brandon. Identified with poor results, the Toronto series, drafting Aaron Maybin and robust Analytics. Have I overlooked anything ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I agree. Football doesnt translate as well at all IMO. You have a smaller sample size of games, mismatches, team aspect, gameplanning, etc... Basically, it seems most teams apply "analytics" appropriately with the abundancy and logging of gamefilm. The combine also does it to a point for incoming players and is supplemented appropriately with interviewing/testing. If such a tool can be used in the process of investing billions of dollars in financial markets, why is it so hard to believe that analytics may have some value in the field of football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Speaking at his latest news conference, Brandon made remarks suggesting that the implementation of analytics will take time and evolve slowly. While this is counter to his remarks on January 1st, he in no way is abandoning the move towards analytics. It does appear that it is not the front burner item it was 5 months ago. Nevertheless people here are acting as if he's committed some sort of egregious lie. I don't even like Brandon and have taken the time to mock him numerous times in the past but again, I don't get the hatred. And in the context of message board conversation, it is hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 If such a tool can be used in the process of investing billions of dollars in financial markets, why is it so hard to believe that analytics may have some value in the field of football? Cause investments tend to be better regulated, have huge sample sizes, and follow patterns more reliably? And even then it can be pretty damn spotty? That's not to say there's no value, there certainly is but it's far hazier than most of its supporters like to acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Sounds like a good idea. They are in the talk about it stage. Think about how long they were in the "talking about it" stage when it came to getting a quarterback. Little less talk-little more do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Cause investments tend to be better regulated, have huge sample sizes, and follow patterns more reliably? And even then it can be pretty damn spotty? That's not to say there's no value, there certainly is but it's far hazier than most of its supporters like to acknowledge. Football is more complicated than global financial markets. Who knew? If only Buddy Nix had chosen Wall Street he'd certainly be managing billions. Edited May 21, 2013 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I'm with you BillsVet. Russ Brandon. Identified with poor results, the Toronto series, drafting Aaron Maybin and robust Analytics. Have I overlooked anything ? Pittsford training camp. More regional season ticket base. Hiring Doug Marrone. See how I did that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy in 4C Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 We don't even have caller ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 If such a tool can be used in the process of investing billions of dollars in financial markets, why is it so hard to believe that analytics may have some value in the field of football? It does have some value. Im sure it has been implemented everywhere. But the blanket application in the popular comparison to baseball just doesnt make sense to me. Baseball is very repetitive, controlled, and the play is isolated. You can see what a batter has done on a first pitch fastball 92-95 mph on the outside part of the strike zone from a right handed pitcher at night that is below 55 degrees with a runner in scoring position. And the sample space provides for adequate data. Analytics can be relied on in baseball. Football isnt nearly as neatly bound as that. Coaching, teammates, bumps and bruises, extreme weather, etc have a lot to do with how the "stats" will look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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