ny33 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Posted May 1, 2013 I've always wondered why teams don't have a quality blocker, declared as an eligible receiver, play the role of a sixth blocker. I'm not talking about a blocking T.E., necessarily; I'm talking about a 300-pound athletic guy, like Fisher, who moves around and neutralizes the defense's pass-rushing threat.
Pneumonic Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 If you are fortunate enough t have a QB who excels at getting rid fo the ball quickly then you don't need great pass blockers anywhere on the OL, including at LT. The issue, for too many NFL teams, is they don't have said QB so they need to spend on pass blockers on the OL.
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 I've always wondered why teams don't have a quality blocker, declared as an eligible receiver, play the role of a sixth blocker. I'm not talking about a blocking T.E., necessarily; I'm talking about a 300-pound athletic guy, like Fisher, who moves around and neutralizes the defense's pass-rushing threat. Teams do this quite a bit. Oakland did it last year with Joseph Barksdale, New Orleans did it with Charles Brown, New England did it with Russ Hochstein a few years ago...it's not uncommon.
Bill from NYC Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 And by the time Indy won the Superbowl in 2006, Glenn was in steep decline and on the verge of retirement, and Meadows was out of the league. The Colts' OL was largely UDFAs and late-round picks by that point. This would seem to imply that Manning accomplished absolutely nothing before he won the Superbowl. Glenn and Meadows kept him in one piece, and helped him win numerous games. And btw, I don't totally disagree with you. My take is that every single position on the field is becoming less valueable. Take away the idiotic contract given to Revis by a desperate GM, and how many big contracts were signed by corners in the offseason? And really, ithe Revis deal is only guaranteed for one season. With 4 wide sets, a corner can only cover 1 receiver. And these sets are often based on quick plays, such as Brady to Welker. It's a similar situation at LT. Brady needs less time than Cutler, who loves to air it out. RBs these days are almost an after thought. Look at the ypc numbers for Spiller. One would think that you could hand him the ball all day and coast to the playoffs, but it just isn't so. The rule changes have made this a passing, Arena League type sport. This is why teams are paying QBs 15-20 percent of their salary cap allotment. Think about it if you will.....If Russell Wilson was a free agent right now, how much do you think he would sign for, after 1 good season? My guess is that he would get 15-20 million per season, with at least 30 guaranteed. Luck would get even more. My point? It's really all about the QB. Other positions are forced to take a back seat, and many position players will make a lot less money, and this includes LTs. This is why I am glad that we signed a first round qb. If he is good, fantastic. If not, they can draft another one until they get it right. The new CBA makes this easier to do. Much easier.
Nanker Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 I've been saying this for years but old football heads cling to this idea. Teams use 3 and 4 receivers sets on hte majority of their plays and that makes it much easier for o linemen. Sinking $10+ million into a tackle is a really good way to get your team in a bad salary cap situation. Or $30+ million in a LG for that matter. Kudos to Levitre, but signing him would have killed this team. My point? It's really all about the QB. Other positions are forced to take a back seat, and many position players will make a lot less money, and this includes LTs. This is why I am glad that we signed a first round qb. If he is good, fantastic. If not, they can draft another one until they get it right. The new CBA makes this easier to do. Much easier. And getting one after the 10th pick in the draft enables teams to get a 5th year option at their rookie contract rate before they can cash in a-la the Wilson scenario you stated. We don't know if EJ's going to be the real deal or not, but I know where I'm putting my chips this year. Just like every year - Go Bills!
gumby Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Not surprising at all. When Pittsburgh played Arizona in the Super Bowl a few years back Roethlisberger and Warner were the top 2 most sacked QBs in the league that year. No QB has been sacked more in the last 3 years than Aaron Rodgers. QB is the be all and end all in the NFL today. If you got a good one you stand a chance if you don't you're paddling upstream without an oar.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 (edited) Outside of QB which is far and away the most important I would say pass rusher is 2 and players that great mismatches in the passing game. Whether it be star WR or TE that create match up problems, that is today's NFL. Versatility is really important right now. If you can do one thing well (besides rush the passer) the game is kind of passing you by. Edited May 4, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
NoSaint Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 This would seem to imply that Manning accomplished absolutely nothing before he won the Superbowl. Glenn and Meadows kept him in one piece, and helped him win numerous games. And btw, I don't totally disagree with you. My take is that every single position on the field is becoming less valueable. Take away the idiotic contract given to Revis by a desperate GM, and how many big contracts were signed by corners in the offseason? And really, ithe Revis deal is only guaranteed for one season. With 4 wide sets, a corner can only cover 1 receiver. And these sets are often based on quick plays, such as Brady to Welker. It's a similar situation at LT. Brady needs less time than Cutler, who loves to air it out. RBs these days are almost an after thought. Look at the ypc numbers for Spiller. One would think that you could hand him the ball all day and coast to the playoffs, but it just isn't so. The rule changes have made this a passing, Arena League type sport. This is why teams are paying QBs 15-20 percent of their salary cap allotment. Think about it if you will.....If Russell Wilson was a free agent right now, how much do you think he would sign for, after 1 good season? My guess is that he would get 15-20 million per season, with at least 30 guaranteed. Luck would get even more. My point? It's really all about the QB. Other positions are forced to take a back seat, and many position players will make a lot less money, and this includes LTs. This is why I am glad that we signed a first round qb. If he is good, fantastic. If not, they can draft another one until they get it right. The new CBA makes this easier to do. Much easier. The only note I'd change is go back to like 2000 - you see Bledsoe signing a deal worth 10m per with a cap of 60-65m And mark brunells cap number at 17% The big change is 16-20m looks a lot bigger than 8-10
BillsVet Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 The problem for most in evaluating the LT position remains that success there can't be easily quantified. Whereas every other position on the field has statistics, offensive lineman remain the only group who don't. Sure, PFF or other sites can give grades, but fans aren't typically studying that in-depth. And most barely watch OL play during the course of a game. A team may not need an elite LT like they would a top QB, but no one can argue having a Walter Jones or Orlando Pace is bad. The next question is are they worth the money they'll make? Some here didn't think Peters was worth 10M per, but did credit the Bills for their offer, which I'm not sure was every publicized and was probably around 8.5M. It's still a matchup game and who can win those one on one battles. With pass rushers getting faster, I'd want a LT who can stop that guy from getting in my backfield. It's different now than when Chris Doleman was stymied by Steve Wallace 25 years ago, but the concept is very similar.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 As someone who grew up watching the great Kent Hull, the most important position on the OL, imho, is Center. When you are looking to build your OLine unit, you start with your Center as the top priority and work your way out. The Center is the guy who is making the reads and calls. He is your anchor in the middle. You can have a $100mil star LT, but if there is no one in the middle, the line will be weak. Now, I'll admit I think LT is the second most important position out of the 5. But without a Center in place, none of the other 4 positions matter.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 IIRC, I started a thread here a few years ago with the same premise. Or else it was inside of a thread about LTs. A couple other points I made were that teams run more to the right side, and running was half the game, so your RT was a little more important than your LT in the run game. A lot of the best DL in the league play LDE, so they rush against your RT and not your LT. A big thing, to me is, the "blind side" theory. I don't have stats to back this up, but it seems to me from watching so much football over the years, the injuries and turnovers come more from the front side than the backside. Sure, you see the plays where the QB is bashed from behind and his back arches and the ball comes loose. Or the ball is tipped from behind by the onrushing lineman behind him. But QBs almost always get up from those nasty hits. It hurts like hell but they hardly ever see to be injured from them. There are exceptions of course. But I see far more QBs getting rib injuries hit from the front, hand injuries and arm injuries hit from the front, even leg injuries. That comes from the RT side. I also see just as many fumbles and turnovers when hit straight on than hit from behind. I didn't see much difference in importance all around from the RT vs the LT. The running game point isn't as important in today's NFL because it is no longer half the game but somewhat less than half.
Section242 Posted May 4, 2013 Posted May 4, 2013 Drafting offensive lineman early is a waste. They just don't matter as much as other positions. Like it's been posted it's a passing league and more so a quick passing league. The Chiefs have an elite LT and they draft Fisher number 1. It was a scared draft pick. Tackles don't matter in comparison to skill positions.
thebandit27 Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 This would seem to imply that Manning accomplished absolutely nothing before he won the Superbowl. Glenn and Meadows kept him in one piece, and helped him win numerous games. And btw, I don't totally disagree with you. My take is that every single position on the field is becoming less valueable. Take away the idiotic contract given to Revis by a desperate GM, and how many big contracts were signed by corners in the offseason? And really, ithe Revis deal is only guaranteed for one season. With 4 wide sets, a corner can only cover 1 receiver. And these sets are often based on quick plays, such as Brady to Welker. It's a similar situation at LT. Brady needs less time than Cutler, who loves to air it out. RBs these days are almost an after thought. Look at the ypc numbers for Spiller. One would think that you could hand him the ball all day and coast to the playoffs, but it just isn't so. The rule changes have made this a passing, Arena League type sport. This is why teams are paying QBs 15-20 percent of their salary cap allotment. Think about it if you will.....If Russell Wilson was a free agent right now, how much do you think he would sign for, after 1 good season? My guess is that he would get 15-20 million per season, with at least 30 guaranteed. Luck would get even more. My point? It's really all about the QB. Other positions are forced to take a back seat, and many position players will make a lot less money, and this includes LTs. This is why I am glad that we signed a first round qb. If he is good, fantastic. If not, they can draft another one until they get it right. The new CBA makes this easier to do. Much easier. Agreed...it's all about the QB...and whether it's EJ now or another pick next year, the right approach is to draft your guy and get it right.
thewildrabbit Posted May 5, 2013 Posted May 5, 2013 A so-so LT will need help from a TE or RB because they are usually facing the other teams best pass rusher. So a LT that can neutralize the opponents best pass rusher solo, can be like having an extra guy. Well said, not to mention that one all pro LT isn't going to win games by himself as Its a team sport. Sometimes even two or three good players on that line isn't enough to make it a cohesive unit, it takes five players on the same page. As someone who grew up watching the great Kent Hull, the most important position on the OL, imho, is Center. When you are looking to build your OLine unit, you start with your Center as the top priority and work your way out. The Center is the guy who is making the reads and calls. He is your anchor in the middle. You can have a $100mil star LT, but if there is no one in the middle, the line will be weak. Now, I'll admit I think LT is the second most important position out of the 5. But without a Center in place, none of the other 4 positions matter. I agree Center is very important. The Bills had an all pro LT in 2007-08 and they still had a bad line because the centers were terrible (Fowler - Preston). The Bills are lucky to have Eric Wood! Now if only he could stay healthy and finish a season. I'm a firm believer in building the O line first, and doing it right with top talent. Like the current 49ers have done.
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