Jairus Byrd: Jason Peters Part II?

[GG]

 

This is where we disagree. Peters handled it properly. It was the Bills, by signing inferior talents at a bloated price, that created the tenuous situation. If they had intended all along to move Jason Peters, that's fair and good. But if they expected Peters to sit tight and do nothing while 2 stiffs playing alongside him were rewarded with monster contracts, it was a rather foolish expectation.

 

Baloney. He pouted and stomped like a petulant child. The right way to handle it was too go to the team and tell them that you know who's the better player on that line and he should be paid accordingly. It can be now or later, but if you don't extend me this year, next year's contact request will make up for this year's loss. Bills were clear that they would be willing to extend him in the next year.

 

He did not act like other people act in these situations.

 

Williams' contract with the Texans had expired. With regards to Kelsay (and McKelvin for that matter), you have to factor in the value of the contracts the Bills doled out. McKelvin was never going to fetch $5M per year in the open market and his agent Hadley Englehart was right to pounce on the opportunity and forgo free agency. Likewise, Kelsay was never going to receive as lucrative a contract in free agency and his agent was correct in asking Overdorf "where/when do I sign?" Bottom line: when presented with a deal you are unlikely to receive in free agency, you sign. Byrd faces no such conundrum. He can have his cake and eat it too.

I was referring to Kyle Williams, not Mario.

 

If Byrd is looking to get maximum cash, then sayonara. I doubt he'd get the top safety salary now and history shows that few championship teams pay top FA dollars. If he wants more money from Jaguars, more power to him, and I hope his butt doesn't have a large mark from the door slam.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The Bills likely approached Byrd and Parker, but I have doubts that the discussions were substantive in nature, not because of the numbers themselves, but because Byrd and Parker had no intentions to negotiate, leaving the Bills with little choice but to utilize the franchise designation and draft accordingly.

 

If he's dead set on leaving Buffalo they should ship him on the next bus out. I doubt Marrone wants to start his tenure with a malcontent.

[Kelly the Dog]

Exactly, although I'm pretty sure Levitre would have been happy to stay if the Bills offered him the same money. Byrd, on the other hand, would prefer to play elsewhere. My (wild) guess: he's resigned to playing in Buffalo for one more year. He and his agent are holding out to force the Bills to promise not to franchise him the following year (Clements did this in his last year). Hopefully the Bills don't cave.

Why would you possibly say that? There is nothing to my knowledge to make anyone believe that. In fact, I have heard that Byrd would love to stay. He simply wants to get paid what he feels he deserves, after completely outplaying his rookie contract. The Bills need to pay him top three safety salary because that is what he is worth in this league right now. He doesn't even have to be amongst the top three safeties to deserve that. He's young, he's getting better and better, he plays hard, he is good against the run and the pass, he makes plays and turnovers, and he is entering the prime of his career at a position that is becoming more important with the ascension of the big fast pass catching TE. Pay the man.

[GG]

Why would you possibly say that? There is nothing to my knowledge to make anyone believe that. In fact, I have heard that Byrd would love to stay. He simply wants to get paid what he feels he deserves, after completely outplaying his rookie contract. The Bills need to pay him top three safety salary because that is what he is worth in this league right now. He doesn't even have to be amongst the top three safeties to deserve that. He's young, he's getting better and better, he plays hard, he is good against the run and the pass, he makes plays and turnovers, and he is entering the prime of his career at a position that is becoming more important with the ascension of the big fast pass catching TE. Pay the man.

 

yup - Dawwg is conflating two points - does Byrd want to be among the highest paid or does Byrd want to be among the highest paid AND play for another team? If it's the first, then Bills should pay him. If it's the latter, he should be tossed immediately.

[Dawgg]

Baloney. He pouted and stomped like a petulant child. The right way to handle it was too go to the team and tell them that you know who's the better player on that line and he should be paid accordingly. It can be now or later, but if you don't extend me this year, next year's contact request will make up for this year's loss. Bills were clear that they would be willing to extend him in the next year.

 

He did not act like other people act in these situations.

 

Do you really think Peters' representation didn't demand a new contract prior to engaging in a holdout? That Peters should have said "Pay me now or later?" is baloney, as playing another season and risking injury would be an ill-advised move under the circumstances. The bottom line is that the Bills weren't going to tear apart his contract after handing Derrick Dockery the richest contract in Buffalo sports history. The mere fact that this front office did that should provide pause enough, as any front office that understands the economics of the left tackle position would have not done such a thing.

 

I was referring to Kyle Williams, not Mario.

Kyle Williams received 3 contracts in a 5-year span and was given a deal befitting of the top defensive linemen in the league. Unlike the case with Peters, the Bills did not pay an inferior player more than Kyle Williams - he always was paid like the best lineman on the team (until Mario arrived, that is).

 

If Byrd is looking to get maximum cash, then sayonara. I doubt he'd get the top safety salary now and history shows that few championship teams pay top FA dollars. If he wants more money from Jaguars, more power to him, and I hope his butt doesn't have a large mark from the door slam.

 

If he's dead set on leaving Buffalo they should ship him on the next bus out. I doubt Marrone wants to start his tenure with a malcontent.

Agreed with this. As much as I'd love for them to keep him, it seems to me that the Bills appear to be preparing for life without him. If that is the case, I hope they hold their ground and franchise him next year too.

 

yup - Dawwg is conflating two points - does Byrd want to be among the highest paid or does Byrd want to be among the highest paid AND play for another team? If it's the first, then Bills should pay him. If it's the latter, he should be tossed immediately.

I'm not conflating two points. I'm merely stating that I think, based on the team's actions, that it's the latter -- that Byrd wants the cash AND wants out of Buffalo. If that's the case, it is my hope that they continue to exercise their rights under the franchise tag, force him to play this year under that number and apply it again if necessary during the following year to explore trade possibilities. Just don't let him go for nothing.

[Kelly the Dog]

Do you really think Peters' representation didn't demand a new contract prior to engaging in a holdout? That Peters should have said "Pay me now or later?" is baloney, as playing another season and risking injury would be an ill-advised move under the circumstances. The bottom line is that the Bills weren't going to tear apart his contract after handing Derrick Dockery the richest contract in Buffalo sports history. The mere fact that this front office did that should provide pause enough, as any front office that understands the economics of the left tackle position would have not done such a thing.

Totally incorrect. The Bills were more than willing to rip up his contract again. They offered him $9m a season. Peters and Parker turned it down because they were asking for $10m a season, which was market value. The Bills didn't want to pay him more than 9. I would have done it myself, but it's understandable why they didn't want to. So they made the trade. Peters and Parker were right, because the Eagles WERE willing to pay him that AND give up a #1 and a #4 IIRC.

[GG]

Kyle Williams was among the higher paid DLs, but he wasn't in the top 3, which is what Byrd is asking. Plus, a true comparison is that Williams received two contract extensions in five years, since the first was his original rookie deal. Both made sense from his and team's standpoint. Peters & Parker threw a hissy fit, even though it was very likely Bills would have made Peters the highest paid LT if he had waited a year, considering how much they were willing to pay him in 2009.

 

Bills won out on that deal in retrospect.

[8-8 Forever?]

Exactly, although I'm pretty sure Levitre would have been happy to stay if the Bills offered him the same money. Byrd, on the other hand, would prefer to play elsewhere. My (wild) guess: he's resigned to playing in Buffalo for one more year. He and his agent are holding out to force the Bills to promise not to franchise him the following year (Clements did this in his last year). Hopefully the Bills don't cave.

yes, because I am not sure the market for Byrd with be great, both with the cap predicted to be flat next year and many teams drafting safeties this year. This may be why he is holding out, he ideally wants to go NOW before all the rookie safeties show their wares, but as you say at least get out next year. If he wants big big money, not sure he is going to get it. If he just wants out, then he won't have to wait but one year in all likelihood. Good for him. He is doing the right thing as it will be years before (and if) this franchise is turned around. Anyone who signs a 4 or 5 year deal with the Bills is nuts as the team will be in new hands within that time frame and the whole coaching staff will get flushed again, leaving players in a total no mans land in terms of competing for the title.. On the other hand timing could be great for EJ, if he turns out to be great, he could be the next Kobe in L.A. Their are stranger scenarios.....

[BillsVet]

It seems there are three ways to go about publicly getting a new contract with Buffalo, illustrated by 3 high-profile players:

 

1. The Kyle Williams method: See a third overall pick get signed to a large rookie deal (brought on by the player's agent and the then system in place. Play ball with the team and negotiate behind the scenes. Emerge with a nice contract before the season begins. Continue playing well while dealing with injuries.

2. The Aaron Schobel method: Watch fellow DE (Kelsay) get re-signed to a decent deal (4 yrs 23M) just before UFA in 2007. Conduct a quasi-cold war in OTA's and mini-camp. Don't go against the team, but go on record as expecting a new deal. Sign largest Bills contract on eve of 2007 season. Retire after '09 season.

3. Jason Peters: Watch as you're paid less than Dockery and Walker. Continue playing All-Pro caliber football. Agent opens up negotiations somewhat publicly and team reciprocates. Acrimony a result of both sides seeing who's bigger. End up getting traded for essentially Eric Wood just before 2009 draft. Go on to 2 more All-Pro teams.

 

I don't know what Parker will do this time, but he doesn't have the most cordial relationship with Buffalo. Perhaps that's because he drives a hard deal, but the Bills can't be pals with every agent. I get the impression Brandon thinks he can negotiate more in public as though it were a stadium lease deal. Unfortunately, negotiating with players is much different than what he does marketing the franchise and I'm not sure he appreciates that.

[Ramius]

It seems there are three ways to go about publicly getting a new contract with Buffalo, illustrated by 3 high-profile players:

 

1. The Kyle Williams method: See a third overall pick get signed to a large rookie deal (brought on by the player's agent and the then system in place. Play ball with the team and negotiate behind the scenes. Emerge with a nice contract before the season begins. Continue playing well while dealing with injuries.

2. The Aaron Schobel method: Watch fellow DE (Kelsay) get re-signed to a decent deal (4 yrs 23M) just before UFA in 2007. Conduct a quasi-cold war in OTA's and mini-camp. Don't go against the team, but go on record as expecting a new deal. Sign largest Bills contract on eve of 2007 season. Retire after '09 season.

3. Jason Peters: Watch as you're paid less than Dockery and Walker. Continue playing All-Pro caliber football. Agent opens up negotiations somewhat publicly and team reciprocates. Acrimony a result of both sides seeing who's bigger. End up getting traded for essentially Eric Wood just before 2009 draft. Go on to 2 more All-Pro teams.

 

I don't know what Parker will do this time, but he doesn't have the most cordial relationship with Buffalo. Perhaps that's because he drives a hard deal, but the Bills can't be pals with every agent. I get the impression Brandon thinks he can negotiate more in public as though it were a stadium lease deal. Unfortunately, negotiating with players is much different than what he does marketing the franchise and I'm not sure he appreciates that.

 

Dareus' rookie contract was made after the new CBA was in place. It's a 4 year 20 million dollar deal. He's not getting the ridiculous amounts that the rooks were getting.

 

And for #3, you forgot to add: throw a hissy fit, holdout and then finally show up like a fat sack of crap, harming your team. Admit that you've not given your all, because your lennie-like brain cannot handle higher adult functions except for, "Philly's gonna let me pet the rabbits." Further justify your point by getting hurt after signing a huge deal and then allowing yourself to balloon to such a weight where a mechanical device (designed to aid your rehab) can no longer handle your obscene girth, causing you to fall and require a second surgery.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Ramius

[BillsVet]

Dareus' rookie contract was made after the new CBA was in place. It's a 4 year 20 million dollar deal. He's not getting the ridiculous amounts that the rooks were getting.

 

And for #3, you forgot to add: throw a hissy fit, holdout and then finally show up like a fat sack of crap, harming your team. Admit that you've not given your all, because your lennie-like brain cannot handle higher adult functions except for, "Philly's gonna let me pet the rabbits." Further justify your point by getting hurt after signing a huge deal and then allowing yourself to balloon to such a weight where a mechanical device (designed to aid your rehab) can no longer handle your obscene girth, causing you to fall and require a second surgery.

 

My bad on Dareus' deal.

 

As for Peters, that agent didn't tell him to stop working out during the off-season, but the holdout was their big leverage against the team. It helped that their backup and other option were to play Langston Walker out of position, only to put Bell in when he wasn't ready. And it's looking like that's happening again, with Searcy being more of a SS and the two rookies not battle tested either in the pros. Should be interesting, but I don't expect to see Byrd before Week 1 much.

[Ramius]

My bad on Dareus' deal.

 

As for Peters, that agent didn't tell him to stop working out during the off-season, but the holdout was their big leverage against the team. It helped that their backup and other option were to play Langston Walker out of position, only to put Bell in when he wasn't ready. And it's looking like that's happening again, with Searcy being more of a SS and the two rookies not battle tested either in the pros. Should be interesting, but I don't expect to see Byrd before Week 1 much.

 

We'll know a lot more in a month when mandatory mini-camps start. Its way too early to speculate that he's going to holdout or not show up until the start of the season, just because he's skipping some voluntary workouts. Plus, the FO is now freed up from draft prep, so we'll see what moves/discussions towards a long term deal are made in the next month or so.

[uncle flap]

We'll know a lot more in a month when mandatory mini-camps start. Its way too early to speculate that he's going to holdout or not show up until the start of the season, just because he's skipping some voluntary workouts. Plus, the FO is now freed up from draft prep, so we'll see what moves/discussions towards a long term deal are made in the next month or so.

 

You're absolutely right that his attendance (or nonattendance) will be telling.

 

However, he has until July 15 to sign his tender per the CBA/league rules. If I understand the rules correctly, as long as he is unsigned, he doesn't face any penalty for not attending the minicamp, even though it's "mandatory." OTAs.

 

Simply put, he isn't "holding out" or subject to fines until after July 15, for whatever that's worth.

 

So, yes I agree, it won't look good if he doesn't sign by or show up to minicamp OTAs, but it could also be a bluff/negotiating tactic as July 15th is a more significant date in the negotiation process than May 10 or whenever the minicamp starts.

 

That said, I would hope Byrd realizes the importance of getting off on the right foot with the new staff and being there to learn a new defense. He already missed the voluntary camp a week or two ago, and would hate to see any detrimental effects of him having to play catch up.

 

EDIT: All the OTAs are voluntary until June 11-13. http://buffalowdown....-buffalo-bills/

 

EDIT #2: July 15 is the cut off for signing the tender

Edited May 3, 2013 by uncle flap

[RuntheDamnBall]

Hey y'all, remember this?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/04/07/fred-jackson-skipping-voluntary-workouts/

 

But we love Freddie and he eventually came to work and he eventually (a good bit later) got rewarded.

 

So, if the team wants to do it and act in good faith, Byrd will be here. If they don't, he won't. Either way, I think the blame lies with the team. They are the ones who have let it get to this point and they are the ones who reserve the right to either sign or deal the guy. Byrd is doing what any of us would do in this situation: using his leverage to secure his future as best is possible. Now, certainly he stands to earn more than most of us will see over a long period of time, perhaps our lives. But he is just doing business in his sport. End of story, really. Until I see him say that he won't play for Buffalo, the speculation is useless, if inevitable.

[papazoid]

Byrd will NOT be starting week 1.

 

this is going to be a long drawn out process.

 

it's going to get ugly.

 

I say he reports around week 10 just in time to get credit for a vested year.

 

 

The franchise tag for safeties is a guaranteed one-year contract of $6.916 million if Byrd opts to accept it. But why would he? Free-agent safety Dashon Goldson signed a four-year deal with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers worth a reported $41.25 million with $22 million in guarantees.

 

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/04/dont-expect-jairus-byrd-agent-to-give-bills-any-breaks.html

[QCity]

You're absolutely right that his attendance (or nonattendance) will be telling.

 

However, he has until June 15 to sign his tender per the CBA/league rules. If I understand the rules correctly, as long as he is unsigned, he doesn't face any penalty for not attending the minicamp, even though it's "mandatory." OTAs.

 

Simply put, he isn't "holding out" or subject to fines until after June 15, for whatever that's worth.

 

So, yes I agree, it won't look good if he doesn't sign by or show up to minicamp OTAs, but it could also be a bluff/negotiating tactic as June 15th is a more significant date in the negotiation process than May 10 or whenever the minicamp starts.

 

That said, I would hope Byrd realizes the importance of getting off on the right foot with the new staff and being there to learn a new defense. He already missed the voluntary camp a week or two ago, and would hate to see any detrimental effects of him having to play catch up.

 

EDIT: All the OTAs are voluntary until June 11-13. http://buffalowdown....-buffalo-bills/

 

You're right about everything except the date, it's July 15th.

 

Of course he won't show up - he doesn't have a contract, that would be crazy. What if he sustained a freak injury like an achilles pop? How many people here would risk something like that?

 

The franchise tag for safeties is a guaranteed one-year contract of $6.916 million if Byrd opts to accept it. But why would he? Free-agent safety Dashon Goldson signed a four-year deal with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers worth a reported $41.25 million with $22 million in guarantees.

 

http://blogs.buffalo...any-breaks.html

 

Buffalo News is just terrible with contract information, it's a five year deal. But yeah, it's still screwing this negotiation up.

[Kelly the Dog]

The franchise tag for safeties is a guaranteed one-year contract of $6.916 million if Byrd opts to accept it. But why would he? Free-agent safety Dashon Goldson signed a four-year deal with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers worth a reported $41.25 million with $22 million in guarantees.

 

http://blogs.buffalo...any-breaks.html

It's actually a five year deal for that money. Byrd will eventually sign the tender and play. In the meantime, his agent and the Bills will play a game of chicken trying to hammer out a long term deal. If I had to guess, he holds out until right before the season and then comes in and plays. IMO, the Bills should pay him top three safety money and he will likely sign.

 

It's possible that he wants to be paid the top safety, and there are arguments for and against that.

3/13/2013: Signed a five-year, $41.25 million contract. The deal contains $22 million guaranteed, including a first-year roster bonus of $4.5 million, Goldson's first- and second-year salaries, and a fully guaranteed 2014 roster bonus of $3 million. 2013: $4.5 million, 2014: $6 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2015: $7.5 million (+ $500,000 workout bonus), 2016: $7.5 million (+ $500,000 workout bonus), 2017: $6.75 million (+ $500,000 workout bonus), 2018: Free Agent

[uncle flap]

You're right about everything except the date, it's July 15th.

 

Of course he won't show up - he doesn't have a contract, that would be crazy. What if he sustained a freak injury like an achilles pop? How many people here would risk something like that?

 

 

Oops! My mistake.

 

And yeah I didn't mean to imply that he should show up w/o a contract, just that I hope he would sign one beforehand so that he can move forward with the team and not fall behind learning the defense.

[papazoid]

So Byrd sits and waits. He was the only veteran who skipped the recent voluntary minicamp.

 

Before the draft, General Manager Buddy Nix said he hadnt given Byrd much thought, though he wanted to sign him to a long-term deal and expects him in training camp. But Nix also said the balls in his court.

 

Byrds agent is Eugene Parker, whose unbending demands got Jason Peters traded from Buffalo four years ago. You can bet Parker wants Byrd to get top market value and will urge him to stand his ground even if it means holding out of training camp or, in the worst case, sitting out the start of the season.

 

The Bills shouldnt let it come to that. Im not privy to negotiations, but it would be imprudent to play hardball with Byrd and risk alienating one of the top players and good guys on the team. Its only May, but drafting safeties in consecutive rounds was a troubling sign that this could get ugly.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130506/SPORTS/130509540/1004

Edited May 6, 2013 by papazoid

[PromoTheRobot]

So Byrd sits and waits. He was the only veteran who skipped the recent voluntary minicamp.

 

Before the draft, General Manager Buddy Nix said he hadnt given Byrd much thought, though he wanted to sign him to a long-term deal and expects him in training camp. But Nix also said the balls in his court.

 

Byrds agent is Eugene Parker, whose unbending demands got Jason Peters traded from Buffalo four years ago. You can bet Parker wants Byrd to get top market value and will urge him to stand his ground even if it means holding out of training camp or, in the worst case, sitting out the start of the season.

 

The Bills shouldnt let it come to that. Im not privy to negotiations, but it would be imprudent to play hardball with Byrd and risk alienating one of the top players and good guys on the team. Its only May, but drafting safeties in consecutive rounds was a troubling sign that this could get ugly.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130506/SPORTS/130509540/1004

 

The only way to prevent things from coming to a holdout, if Parker doesn't budge, is to give in to his demands. Then what do the Bills do with the next player he represents? Parker knows the Bills will fold if we cave once.

 

Parker may be a great agent but he's a team wrecker. The big question to me is if Byrd is willing to take it as far a holdout is does he even want to be a Bill?

 

PTR

Edited May 6, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[Dawgg]

 

 

The only way to prevent things from coming to a holdout, if Parker doesn't budge, is to give in to his demands. Then what do the Bills do with the next player he represents? Parker knows the Bills will fold if we cave once.

 

Parker may be a great agent but he's a team wrecker. The big question to me is if Byrd is willing to take it as far a holdout is does he even want to be a Bill?

 

PTR

 

If the team isn't going to cave, then it should go all the way. Sit on the franchise tag, let him hold out, and franchise him again the next year if need be. Anything in-between would be suboptimal, as it's doubtful he'd fetch a first rounder in a trade.