Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 > So I am just curious what substantiated this knowledge you possess about his lack of mental bandwidth? From CBS Sports: " Has a tendency to stare down primary target. Average accuracy in the pocket and will get 'happy feet' when pressured." From Walter Football: Weaknesses Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions From NFL.com ********* NFL Comparison: Blaine Gabbert . . . Manuel has the velocity and mobility teams look for in a project quarterback. ********* If the only criticism of Manuel was coming from biased FSU sites, I wouldn't be concerned. But a number of credible sources have raised serious concerns about his ability to handle the mental aspects of the game. Maybe those concerns are misplaced. Maybe he'll become Aaron Rodgers, except with better physical tools. But I'm not counting on it. If multiple credible sources raise concerns like the above about a QB, if he gets the "project QB" label slapped on him, it's usually a sign he's destined to be a bust. Peyton Manning was labeled "polished, ready to play." Ryan Leaf was considered more of a "project" who supposedly had higher "upside" due to his greater physical gifts. Not just Ryan Leaf, but every single last first round QB who was labeled a "project" went on to become a bust. (At least, as far as I remember.) Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Flacco, kapernick were all were referred to as projects, as was Tannehill.... Just words.... All drafted players are projects. Rg3 is a work in progress as is luck and cam. Marrone knew he can win with Nassib but still took Manuel. It's time to let go of the pessimism and believe the bills are due.
NewEra Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 I whole heartedly disagree with every one of your points. Everything I have heard about Manuel is exact opposite of what you are implying in terms of his intelligence and mental aptitude. I dont know him personally, so I can not say one way or the other, so I rely on those who have done their due diligence on it, and they disagree with you. I think your fundamental flaw is you want to translate what you interpret on the field with no regard to the system he was in which many feel held him back. Does he need work in areas, of course, ALL of these QB's do, but our coach, scouts and GM were all unanimous in feeling he was further along on the mental aspects of the game and fundamental understanding of the game. For you or anyone to call the pick "squandered" or a slam dunk is ludicrous, none of these kids even played a snap of camp yet. And, Nassib and Barkley fell all the way to the 4th round, so seems to me none of the other teams were sold on their ability either, including Nassibs own coaching staff. But somehow you know better on Nassib than Marrone and Hackett? Kiko Alonso was NOT a reach...talent wise he should have been a guy projected to go first or 2nd round. His draft grading was lower ONLY because of off field concerns early at Oregon. So, where he was slated to go is irrelevant...I am so sick of the "he was supposed to go later" garbage...SAYS WHO? Kiper? McShay? 95% + of the picks they project are wrong, literally. His top 20 players hit at a major losing rate. He knows nothing...its a private opinion of his that is rooted in some tape. If he had any skill, or any mocker for that matter, had any skill of evaluating talent they would be highly paid GM's of winning franchises. Instead, he is literally (along with McShay and other mockers) a complete joke inside the NFL circles. If it was NOT for these lame mockers who literally get paid to be WRONG, you would have no idea of where any of these players should be ranked. So you are basing whether we reached or not on some idiots projections that are always wrong. FYI: Kiper last year gave the worst grade to the Seahawks...one year later, it was easily the best draft of any team last year and helped them almost reached the SB as they got 3 impact starters, including a QB. Goodwin is also far from a "luxury" pick. We had ONE proven WR on the team to start with. There is no guarantee Woods will be good despite being highly touted. And he is a guy who can be a big factor for us even if Woods works out as they are different players where Goodwin can take the top off the D. They wanted more players like this, so how is it a luxury pick? You want to argue Spiller was, then fine, that could be a we had 2 proven RB's at the time (although I dont see it as a luxury pick since Gailey wanted a different style of RB that was not currently on the roster at that time). But going into the draft we had just Stevie, and we need more playmakers and they wanted explosive guys. So again, no disrespect, but I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment. +1
SRQ_BillsFan Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 > So I am just curious what substantiated this knowledge you possess about his lack of mental bandwidth? From CBS Sports: " Has a tendency to stare down primary target. Average accuracy in the pocket and will get 'happy feet' when pressured." From Walter Football: Weaknesses Not a natural passer Decision-making Field vision Struggles to work through progressions From NFL.com ********* NFL Comparison: Blaine Gabbert . . . Manuel has the velocity and mobility teams look for in a project quarterback. ********* If the only criticism of Manuel was coming from biased FSU sites, I wouldn't be concerned. But a number of credible sources have raised serious concerns about his ability to handle the mental aspects of the game. Maybe those concerns are misplaced. Maybe he'll become Aaron Rodgers, except with better physical tools. But I'm not counting on it. If multiple credible sources raise concerns like the above about a QB, if he gets the "project QB" label slapped on him, it's usually a sign he's destined to be a bust. Peyton Manning was labeled "polished, ready to play." Ryan Leaf was considered more of a "project" who supposedly had higher "upside" due to his greater physical gifts. Not just Ryan Leaf, but every single last first round QB who was labeled a "project" went on to become a bust. (At least, as far as I remember.) Ok these were some of the "cons" listed, I am guessing they listed plenty or "pros" or complements? When you just list the negatives without the positive side any QB would look bad.
Donald Duck Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) The homer in me gave the draft a B and said yes to the Maneul question. In hindsight though,Buddy Nix painted himself into a corner with Travis Jackson and had a handful of QB's with higher ceiling potential he could have chosen in the draft. (my humble opinion.) Geno, Barkley and or Nassib could have been drafted instead and it will be interesting to see how the top 3 rated prospects fair in the NFL. Edited April 30, 2013 by dog14787
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 I want to reiterate that my answer to Will EJ Manuel be starting for the Bills in 5 years? be Yes, I hope so
jumbalaya Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 This was a good draft. Completely revamped the WR corps. Added speed and toughness on defense. New kicker, TE who can stretch the field like a WR. Filled lots of needs and made the team much faster. Draft grade is a C. TE that can stretch the field like a WR won't make the roster, may possibly get on the PS. Draft did not add a guard, CBs, TE upgrade, or more depth at LB. Our WR corps looks like a smurf brigade. Completely relying on McKelvin to step up at CB, that is a big risk.
Just in Atlanta Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) I gave the Bills' draft a D. Below is my reasoning. 1. E.J. Manuel. Like Losman, Manuel has great physical tools. Also like Losman, Manuel did nothing in college to demonstrate he could handle the mental complexity associated with NFL offenses. On the contrary: even though his college offense was very simple, he still struggled with pocket awareness. If he doesn't have the bandwidth to handle a simple offense + pocket awareness, how is he supposed to handle the NFL? This pick hurts us twice. First, the pick itself has been squandered. Secondly and more importantly, the Bills are very unlikely to do much of anything at the QB position as long as they're deluding themselves into thinking Manuel is the answer. They even passed on Nassib and Barkley in the third! 2a. Robert Woods. A good pick. 2b. Kiko Alonso. The Bills chose him significantly higher than where the consensus had him slotted. This is not the first time the Bills have taken a player much earlier than he was slotted. Previous examples include Donte Whitner, Torrell Troup, and T.J. Graham. 3. Marquise Goodwin, WR. I have nothing against Goodwin as a player. But the Bills had already addressed the WR position with Woods; plus they had Johnson and Easley on the roster. Spiller and Chandler can also be used as receiving threats. Maybe "luxury pick" is too strong a phrase to describe this selection. But going into the third round, the Bills had a decent stock of talent at WR, and nothing at all at QB. That being the case, why not take Barkley? Even if there's a 70% chance his arm will never recover, a 20 - 30% chance of getting a franchise QB is well worth the use of a third round pick! I glad I never had you as a teacher. I can't really agree or disagree with anything you said here -- time will tell -- but it seems as if most, if all, of your posts are of a pessimistic tone ... which in hindsight is acceptable given the fact we have the worst team in football for the past 12 years. (I believed we were a 10-6 team last year, you probably thought 6-10). I will say this: I could care less about our supposed reach. The reach is based on what people are predicting, mostly parroting each other. I've looked at video footage. From this amateur's eyes, EJ looks better than G. Smith and Barkley. He also looks far more intelligent than Geno. I can see him carrying a locker room. Geno could very well get swallowed up in it in Jersey. As for squandering an opportunity to pick ANOTHER QB in the 3rd, I don't see the logic in that. If this crop of QBs were supposedly weak, why would we waste TWO top picks on them? Better to role the dice on the one you like, and pick him a round earlier than you think he'll be taken to ensure success. Further, we had too many holes to do something (foolish) like that. You draft a guy in the first, then give him mixed messages by drafting another in the 3rd? No, EJ is our man until he proves otherwise. As for Alonso, see above. He looks like he could be a contributor on Day One. Or not. Either way, the Bills got the guy they wanted, traded BACK to get him, and got more draft picks. I would have given them an A for that, if they hadn't gotten two safeties / two WRs, and instead picked a top OG. Otherwise, it's a solid B. Until proven otherwise. Edited April 30, 2013 by Just in Atlanta
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 The homer in me gave the draft a B and said yes to the Maneul question. In hindsight though,Buddy Nix painted himself into a corner with Travis Jackson and had a handful of QB's with higher ceiling potential he could have chosen in the draft. (my humble opinion.) That's a very strange characterization of the situation (bolded) considering that Manuel is considered the QB with the highest ceiling in the draft. It's about the only thing that the overwhelming consensus agrees upon.
hondo in seattle Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) I'll be honest. Usually when I grade a Bills draft, I'm wrong. As an optimist, I usually grade us an "A" - which I did this year as well. It's been a long while since the Bills actually deserved an "A." So now that I've destroyed my credibility, let me explain my grade. We needed to roll the dice on a QB and EJ seemed like a good choice. Yep he has flaws. But I read one scout explaining that pretty much no college QBs have all the skills necessary to excel in the NFL. So you have to guess which will develop those skills and which won't. Let's hope EJ does. And even the later picks at least have the measurables. I hate when we pick 220 lb linebackers or a 4.7 WR who we know will never be starters. This year's later picks (and at least one UDFA) at least have the measurables to start in the NFL, if not all the skills. By the way, even Kiper, McShay et al. are often wrong in their grades, too. I'm in good company. Edited April 30, 2013 by hondo in seattle
Turbosrrgood Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Excellent read. For those who haven't yet taken the time to read it, below is a quote: *************** He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap. FSU had to dumb down its offense a lot for Manuel, as Alan and I have noted many times when people claimed it was too complicated. The reason for this, IMO, is because of his lack of mental ability on the field. But don't take my word for it. Here is Mike Mayock, head scout for the NFL Network: ____________ . . . . "And as for me, E.J. Manuel didn't get asked to do a lot [at Florida State], and I don't think you can ding the kid. A lot of people say, ‘Oh, can he read defenses?' But I don't think they asked him to do it a lot. So we don't really know that. ___________ [Emphasis mine] Mayock says that FSU didn't ask Manuel to do much, but from my perspective, the reason behind this is important: he never demonstrated that he could handle more. Manuel also struggles to throw with anticipation. The next time he bangs the post route before the receiver breaks open will be the first. He is very much a rudimentary "see it, throw it" player. That doesn't work well in the NFL. In the league, certain routes demand that the ball comes out before the receiver is open or out of his break. *************** YES! I watch a ton of FSU (simply because they are always on TV), and I agree with the above analysis 100%. I think EJ DOES have some potential...But unfortunately I see things that are very troubling to me. People in this thread have reacted as if they have been personally violated when EJ is compared to JP Losman, but the comparison is fair. JP Losman was physicall gifted, but was slow to read and react to defenses. If the first target wasn't open his instinct was to panic and run, often resulting in sacks or runs for no gain/loss. This defined JP IMO. I see those same traits in EJ, when the defense is giving him openings he looks great...but when the defense plays tight he panics and reverts to running, often resulting in bad plays. He doesn't make reads, if the first guy or 2 isn't open he takes off. I DO think EJ can succeed if he is in a properly coached system, that is really what he needs. He needs to be told what to do, and have bad habits broken. I think this is why he is often described as raw/needs polish. Personally I think JP could have succeeded if he was properly coached (he was not).
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 YES! I watch a ton of FSU (simply because they are always on TV), and I agree with the above analysis 100%. I think EJ DOES have some potential...But unfortunately I see things that are very troubling to me. People in this thread have reacted as if they have been personally violated when EJ is compared to JP Losman, but the comparison is fair. JP Losman was physicall gifted, but was slow to read and react to defenses. If the first target wasn't open his instinct was to panic and run, often resulting in sacks or runs for no gain/loss. This defined JP IMO. I see those same traits in EJ, when the defense is giving him openings he looks great...but when the defense plays tight he panics and reverts to running, often resulting in bad plays. He doesn't make reads, if the first guy or 2 isn't open he takes off. I DO think EJ can succeed if he is in a properly coached system, that is really what he needs. He needs to be told what to do, and have bad habits broken. I think this is why he is often described as raw/needs polish. Personally I think JP could have succeeded if he was properly coached (he was not). EJ Manuel's completion percentage outside the pocket during his college career was over 70%. One of the many strengths of his game is keeping his eyes downfield and making good throws when flushed from the pocket. Also watching the videotape it's clear to see that he's not jittery in the pocket, that he climbs the ladder well, and that he knows when to throw and when to run.
Turbosrrgood Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) EJ Manuel's completion percentage outside the pocket during his college career was over 70%. One of the many strengths of his game is keeping his eyes downfield and making good throws when flushed from the pocket. Also watching the videotape it's clear to see that he's not jittery in the pocket, that he climbs the ladder well, and that he knows when to throw and when to run. I didn't at all question his throwing skills, that is certainly his strength. I like that when he throws it, he usually completes it...He's particularly accurate on the run as you note (these traits were also what got JP drafted). I hope you are not making your opinions off of highlight reels, which obviously only show the good plays. I watched many FSU games live, and despite his physical skills he often looked less than impressive, mainly for the reasons I stated above. I dispute that he is adept at choosing the proper time to run or pass. His running stats speak strongly to that. However as I also stated above, I think if properly coached and placed in the right system, he could be successful. I have no doubt Jim Harbaugh could turn him into a stud, the big question is can Marrone do it. My point here is that this isn't just a plug and play QB, he needs to carefully placed into a situation that is ideal for his skill set. To this day I still believe JP Losman could have been a successful NFL QB had he been coached and used properly. EJ has more upside IMO, but I believe the concerns between the two are similar. I'll give EJ this advantage, JP just seemed stupid whether talking or making plays on the field, I DON'T get that impression from EJ. I do believe he is a smart kid. It's his instincts I question. Edited April 30, 2013 by Turbosrrgood
JPS Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 I find it annoying that people grab snippets from CBS Sportsline and Walter Football, both absolutely unqualified garbage opinions (just like ours), and then they act like they know something. Regarding EJ, I just don't know. But I'd rather not know with a guy who's big, fast, powerful, accurate and successful than a guy like Nassib or Barkley.
Just in Atlanta Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 On another note regarding our "reach" in the 1st: 1. We had no idea there wouldn't be a run on QBs in the 2nd. 2. We could have had intel -- Pettine, anyone? -- that the Jets were interested in EJ. In both cases NOT picking the guy we wanted in the 1st would be stupid.
Turbosrrgood Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) On another note regarding our "reach" in the 1st: 1. We had no idea there wouldn't be a run on QBs in the 2nd. 2. We could have had intel -- Pettine, anyone? -- that the Jets were interested in EJ. In both cases NOT picking the guy we wanted in the 1st would be stupid. I have no problem with where EJ was picked...If the Bills identified him as their guy, that was the proper place IMO. They got the extra pick, and they didn't want to risk someone trading into the first (Jets, Eagles, Jags, Raiders, ect..) and taking him. I don't think Pettine had even the slightest bit of intel on who the Jets wanted though. Edited April 30, 2013 by Turbosrrgood
Cash Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 3. Marquise Goodwin, WR. I have nothing against Goodwin as a player. But the Bills had already addressed the WR position with Woods; plus they had Johnson and Easley on the roster. Spiller and Chandler can also be used as receiving threats. Maybe "luxury pick" is too strong a phrase to describe this selection. But going into the third round, the Bills had a decent stock of talent at WR, and nothing at all at QB. That being the case, why not take Barkley? Even if there's a 70% chance his arm will never recover, a 20 - 30% chance of getting a franchise QB is well worth the use of a third round pick! It's possible to make a viable argument for drafting Barkley over Goodwin in the 3rd, but this isn't one. You realize that nearly every non-goalline formation has at least 2 WRs starting, right? And that most NFL offenses spend over 50% of the time with at least 3 WRs on the field, and frequently 4? To say the Bills "addressed the WR position" by drafting Woods is like saying a team addressed the O-line by drafting a center. It's technically true, but if the team has needs at both center and tackle, the center they drafted isn't going to help with both. Likewise, the Bills basically needed 2 starters at WR heading into this draft. Stevie Johnson I'll grant you; he's really good. But aside from him, we have no one on the roster who has had proven success at WR in the NFL. You mention Easley, but that's a pipe dream. He couldn't even get on the field over Ruvell Martin last year. Now, I agree that he should have gotten a lot of burn last year, but he didn't. You can't use a 4th-year WR with 0 career catches to say we have a stock of talent at the position. "Hope is not a plan." Easley is a lottery ticket, nothing more. You also mention Spiller and Chandler as receiving threats. Of course, the problem with using Spiller as a WR is that you can't simultaneously use him as a RB. And Chandler can't play WR and TE at the same time, either. In fact, he can't play anything right now, because he's recovering from a major injury. It's unclear how many games he'll be able to play this year, or how effective he'll be when he comes back. Now, your point about a 20% chance of a franchise QB being the better play in the 3rd round -- absolutely and I wholeheartedly agree. But I respectfully disagree that Barkley provides anywhere near that chance. You seem to think there's no scenario where Barkley's arm recovers and he doesn't become a franchise QB. Me personally, I think if his arm's healthy, he's got about a 5-10% chance of being a franchise QB. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I guarantee that it's less than 100%. Luck was the best prospect since Elway, and neither he nor Elway had a 100% chance of becoming a franchise QB if healthy. Anyway, even if I'm right, you could still argue that a 1-3% chance of a franchise QB is more valuable than any WR or Goodwin specifically. And you might be right! I just take exception to the idea that the WR position went from abysmal to "all set" with the addition of one 2nd-round pick.
Orton's Arm Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 YES! I watch a ton of FSU (simply because they are always on TV), and I agree with the above analysis 100%. I think EJ DOES have some potential...But unfortunately I see things that are very troubling to me. People in this thread have reacted as if they have been personally violated when EJ is compared to JP Losman, but the comparison is fair. JP Losman was physicall gifted, but was slow to read and react to defenses. If the first target wasn't open his instinct was to panic and run, often resulting in sacks or runs for no gain/loss. This defined JP IMO. I see those same traits in EJ, when the defense is giving him openings he looks great...but when the defense plays tight he panics and reverts to running, often resulting in bad plays. He doesn't make reads, if the first guy or 2 isn't open he takes off. I DO think EJ can succeed if he is in a properly coached system, that is really what he needs. He needs to be told what to do, and have bad habits broken. I think this is why he is often described as raw/needs polish. Personally I think JP could have succeeded if he was properly coached (he was not). Good posts. I appreciate the time you took to describe your insight into FSU football. I read up on each of the main QBs before the draft. I formed my opinion then, before the Bills had committed themselves to any guy in particular. On the day of the draft, I got out of work around 9:00, changed into exercise clothes, and went to my apartment complex's exercise room. I turned on the T.V., changed the station to the draft, and got on the elliptical machine. I needed the exercise, plus I figured that I'm watching a draft about athletes, I may as well do something athletic. Each time when a team picked someone other than Barkley, I felt a sense of relief. By the time the Bills' pick came up, I was in the midst of my cool down. (Having finished half an hour of hard interval work.) I remember thinking, "Okay. The Bills got away with trading from #8 down to #16, without losing out on Barkley. Now only one last positive thing has to happen for me to be very happy." When that pick was announced, I felt something powerful. To describe what I felt, imagine a pretty woman you have a crush on. You're confident she likes you, and will say yes when you ask her out. Instead she strongly rejects you. That sudden feeling of unexpected, negative shock is exactly what I felt when Manuel was picked. Disgusted, I finished my cool down, turned off the television, and walked back to my apartment. I didn't even bother watching the rest of the draft; convinced that nothing positive the Bills might do in rounds 2 - 7 would compensate for the lack of a quarterback. I entered a state of football-related mourning. (As a Bills fan, I'm no stranger to this.) As you've seen, there have been those in this thread who have tried to sell me on the idea that my concerns about Manuel are misplaced. That I'm being unduly pessimistic in my assessment of him. But if Manuel does have Losman-like bandwidth limitations--as your post strongly suggests he does--it's much better for me to start dealing with those now, than it is to once again embrace false hope.
Orton's Arm Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 I glad I never had you as a teacher. I can't really agree or disagree with anything you said here -- time will tell -- but it seems as if most, if all, of your posts are of a pessimistic tone ... which in hindsight is acceptable given the fact we have the worst team in football for the past 12 years. (I believed we were a 10-6 team last year, you probably thought 6-10). I will say this: I could care less about our supposed reach. The reach is based on what people are predicting, mostly parroting each other. I've looked at video footage. From this amateur's eyes, EJ looks better than G. Smith and Barkley. He also looks far more intelligent than Geno. I can see him carrying a locker room. Geno could very well get swallowed up in it in Jersey. As for squandering an opportunity to pick ANOTHER QB in the 3rd, I don't see the logic in that. If this crop of QBs were supposedly weak, why would we waste TWO top picks on them? Better to role the dice on the one you like, and pick him a round earlier than you think he'll be taken to ensure success. Further, we had too many holes to do something (foolish) like that. You draft a guy in the first, then give him mixed messages by drafting another in the 3rd? No, EJ is our man until he proves otherwise. As for Alonso, see above. He looks like he could be a contributor on Day One. Or not. Either way, the Bills got the guy they wanted, traded BACK to get him, and got more draft picks. I would have given them an A for that, if they hadn't gotten two safeties / two WRs, and instead picked a top OG. Otherwise, it's a solid B. Until proven otherwise. > I glad I never had you as a teacher. When I try to teach someone something, I suspend judgment about whether the person can perform a task, and make it my responsibility to teach them that task. > I can't really agree or disagree with anything you said here -- time will tell -- but it seems as if most, if all, of your posts are of a pessimistic tone I'm not always gloom and doom. I was one of Stevie Johnson's early supporters; and felt he had great potential. Same with Fred Jackson. I also saw potential in Trent Edwards; which shows that I'm capable of falling prey to false hope. > which in hindsight is acceptable given the fact we have the worst team in football for the > past 12 years. (I believed we were a 10-6 team last year, you probably thought 6-10). I don't remember exactly what I'd predicted, but 6-10 sounds about right. I predicted Fitz would not be the answer at QB; which turned out to be correct. I failed to predict the defensive collapse the Bills experienced. I thought, incorrectly, that Wannestedt was a reasonably credible coordinator, and that with the infusion of talent from guys like Mario Williams, our defense would significantly improve. Another case of me falling prey to false hope. > You draft a guy in the first, then give him mixed messages by drafting another in the 3rd? Barkley was a much better QB prospect than you'd normally expect to see in the third. If Barkley's presence on the roster would be sufficient to crush Manuel's confidence, then that would imply a fragile psyche. Anyone with a psyche like that will fail sooner or later anyway. The correct response to a situation like that is, "If those jerks drafted another QB to compete against me, I'll show them I'm better than him. Every practice I'll practice better than him, and every game I'll play better than he would have played." I'm not accusing Manuel of having a fragile psyche--I have no reason to suspect he does--but I don't feel that sending "mixed messages" should be a concern.
1billsfan Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 YES! I watch a ton of FSU (simply because they are always on TV), and I agree with the above analysis 100%. I think EJ DOES have some potential...But unfortunately I see things that are very troubling to me. People in this thread have reacted as if they have been personally violated when EJ is compared to JP Losman, but the comparison is fair. JP Losman was physicall gifted, but was slow to read and react to defenses. If the first target wasn't open his instinct was to panic and run, often resulting in sacks or runs for no gain/loss. This defined JP IMO. I see those same traits in EJ, when the defense is giving him openings he looks great...but when the defense plays tight he panics and reverts to running, often resulting in bad plays. He doesn't make reads, if the first guy or 2 isn't open he takes off. I DO think EJ can succeed if he is in a properly coached system, that is really what he needs. He needs to be told what to do, and have bad habits broken. I think this is why he is often described as raw/needs polish. Personally I think JP could have succeeded if he was properly coached (he was not). Thanks for sharing that. Three differences I can see between Manuel and Losman... 1. EJ Manuel is a very likable person who people gravitate towards. Losman obviously never had that quality, which is probably the main reason why Geno Smith probably fell as far as he did. Smith's personality just doesn't fit with the job. 2. Manuel seems to possess a Ben Rothlisberger type ability of pushing defenders off him. Not as well, but it seems to be there. Losman never had that kind of skill. 3. Manuel seems to be a smarter, more dedicated and more centered of an individual than was Losman. I totally understand the Losman comparison's of which you are one of the most qualified here to be able to make those. I just wanted to point out that Losman lacked some important skills that can make the difference between "greatness" and "bum".
Turbosrrgood Posted April 30, 2013 Posted April 30, 2013 Thanks for sharing that. Three differences I can see between Manuel and Losman... 1. EJ Manuel is a very likable person who people gravitate towards. Losman obviously never had that quality, which is probably the main reason why Geno Smith probably fell as far as he did. Smith's personality just doesn't fit with the job. 2. Manuel seems to possess a Ben Rothlisberger type ability of pushing defenders off him. Not as well, but it seems to be there. Losman never had that kind of skill. 3. Manuel seems to be a smarter, more dedicated and more centered of an individual than was Losman. I totally understand the Losman comparison's of which you are one of the most qualified here to be able to make those. I just wanted to point out that Losman lacked some important skills that can make the difference between "greatness" and "bum". I do agree with this, and have said as much myself in other places. There are certain areas where Manuel seems to have a clear edge over Losman, there are also those few but important areas where there are similarities. EJ does appear to be smart, and have a good attitude. That alone is a good start. Like I said, for me this is all on Marrone. Manuel isn't plug and play, Marrone needs to coach him well, and design the offense around his strengths. I think that's what most of us are hoping for. I LOVE the fact that Bills loaded up on weapons offensively, to compliment the ones we already have. EJ will not have to do it all himself.
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