Bills trade Kelvin Shephard

[truth on hold]

Perfect example of addition by subtraction - Doesn't matter how Hughes pans out - at least Shep is gone..

Yes. But what's the salary cap implication? That's only negative I can think of since Hughes got 1st rd money and shepherd 3rd rd. My hunch is colts knew they were shedding the better player, but got some cap relief, which bills had to burn

Edited May 1, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[TPS]

Yes. But what's the salary cap implication? That's only negative I can think of since Hughes got 1st rd money and shepherd 3rd rd. My hunch is colts knew they were shedding the better player, but got some cap relief, which bills had to burn

According to the Indianapolis Star article, Indy took a cap hit from Hughes' remaining amortized bonus. The Bills are only on the hook for this year's salary. I believe the net difference in salaries was < $200k--the Bills have a slighly higher salaried player.

Just looked at the article again, and it's not clear about the salary differences, but Indy is taking a cap hit from the dead bonus money.

Edited May 1, 2013 by TPS

[Storm Front]

Hughes = McCargo

Shephard = Still has lots of potential and will play much better for Indy

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You are absolutely right that I am taking a jab at Nix and his overall draft record. Shepperd was a third round draft pick who was less than mediocre. He simply couldn't play, regardless of the scheme.

 

Not that it absolves Nix because it doesn't.

 

But in fairness it should be re-mentioned that the Bills coaching staff fell in love with Sheppard at the Senior Bowl and probably played a large role in he being drafted.

 

The larger point being that to varying degrees like all teams, the coaching staff has input into player selections.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Not that it absolves Nix because it doesn't.

 

But in fairness it should be re-mentioned that the Bills coaching staff fell in love with Sheppard at the Senior Bowl and probably played a large role in he being drafted.

 

The larger point being that to varying degrees like all teams, the coaching staff has input into player selections.

 

As well the coaches should, of course. Especially in Buffalo, where it is their jobs, more than anyone else's, that are on the firing line. On the other hand, getting rid of players that Gailey and company wanted in Buffalo is at odds with giving Buddy kudos for putting together a talent laden roster. Gailey ran a spread offense for 3 years and the Bills just spent 3 of their 4 top draft picks on trying to improve the offensive passing game. Sometimes things just don't reconcile.

[JohnC]

Not that it absolves Nix because it doesn't.

 

But in fairness it should be re-mentioned that the Bills coaching staff fell in love with Sheppard at the Senior Bowl and probably played a large role in he being drafted.

 

The larger point being that to varying degrees like all teams, the coaching staff has input into player selections.

 

Of course coaches and scouts have input in evaluating players. How else are you going to evaluate and rank players? There is no other way of preparing for the draft and then making your picks.

 

My point is simple: Nix's draft record in the prior three years has been mediocre. Sheppherd was a third round pick who was a bust. His primary problem had little to do with the scheme he played in. He simply had inadequate football instincts for a position that required good instincts. London Fletcher doesn't have imposing physical skills. What has made him one of the best MLBs in the game for a decade or more is his great football instincts. Sheppherd simply was lost on the field.

 

The next Nix high draftee who is in jeopardy is Aaron Williams, a second round pick. The accumulation of high draft selections that haven't developed into contributing players has weighed this franchise down. I don't believe I am being unfairly harsh (as some may believe) in declaring that Nix's overall draft record is mediocre. For me it it is very obvious.

[Cash]

They signed a free agent from Green Bay and then used their #1 pick on players that play the same position.

 

That said, i don't expect much from Hughes. I expected little to nothing from Sheppard who has no spot on this defense, as the one thing he could be used for he doesn't do well in the NFL.

 

Hughes played the position he was supposed to play for only one year, last year, and he got 4 sacks in 6 starts, although he played in 16 I think. But he wasn't good. It's possible that Pettine can get the most out of his considerable skills but I'm not counting on it. He will likely be our last LB.

 

Per the Buffalo News, Hughes played about 55% of the Colts' snaps last year. Per Football Outsiders, he played 56% of the defensive snaps -- 624 defensive snaps, seventh on the team and fourth among LBs.

 

This Hughes trade was sweet! If Hughes were in the draft this year, he'd of been picked within the first 2 or 3 rounds! Sheppard wasn't cutting it here. Now, just because Hughes didn't play great in Indy, it doesn't mean he isn't going to be good for us; and, with our team composed the way it is, all he's going to be expected to do is rush the passer from time to time. He's not expected to be a starter. With his measurables he could EASILY be a 6-8 sack a year type player, who plays maybe 12 plays a game. It was such a no-brainer, no risk move for us, and we got something for a guy we would've dropped anyway. Great move.

 

See above. Hughes averaged 39 plays a game last year (624/16), and came up with 4 sacks. It would be a pretty big surprise, and a testament to Pettine, if he turned it around at this point. On the bright side, he's no stranger to special teams, playing 57% of special teams snaps. (269 total, 4th on the team.) You can always use good athletes on special teams.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

Not that it absolves Nix because it doesn't.

 

But in fairness it should be re-mentioned that the Bills coaching staff fell in love with Sheppard at the Senior Bowl and probably played a large role in he being drafted.

 

The larger point being that to varying degrees like all teams, the coaching staff has input into player selections.

 

Nice "big picture" interjection, SJBF. With the benefit of hindsight, scouting NFL players is quite easy, isn't it? Nix bashers always bring up Sheppard and A. Williams ... Troup and Carrington are also in the conversations. OK, so we know Troup and Sheppard have not panned out, but we still have a better than 50% chance to get good value out of Carrington and A. Williams.

 

JohnC, you do realize that the hit rate on even the top rounds of the draft is probably less than 50% across the entire league, right? What do you think of his 1st rounders ... Spiller, Dareus, and Gilmore? How about our inexpensive starting LT, Cordy Glenn? Graham, Bradham, Brooks and even Sanders could very well be impact guys this year.

 

I love the "hindsight is always 20/20" view of the junior Jerry Sullivans who lambasted Nix for drafting Spiller as a luxury, but now leave that out of the conversation ... (or worse yet, pretend they really wanted us to keep Marshawn here). At least Nix turned that mess into Chris Hariston. And his dirt cheap free agent acquisitions over the years (Urbik, Chandler, Rinehardt, Pears) certainly should count for something in the overall analysis.

 

I am not saying Nix is the best GM ever; what I do believe is that the lack of talent on the Bills is not nearly as bad as people like to make it out to be, and I love the direction of the team since last year ended. Let's face it, Gailey turned into a very bad hire last year, Fitz fizzled out once pen hit paper, and so Nix did what he had to do as soon as he possibly could do it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[yungmack]

The Senior Bowl is big time important to setting a perception of a player's value. That's where EJ opened eyes. "Falling in love" with a player is what happens there. So the Bills came away feeling like Sheppard was a good pick? No surprise. Also, keep in mind he was drafted to play MLB in a 4/3. That seems to be pretty much his wheelhouse. It seems Pettine is going to play 3/4, 4/3, 4/4/3, 46 & maybe even Tampa Two on any given down - and this is important - he wants to be able to do it as much as possible without substituting. Don't know if Hughes can do that but for sure Sheppard can't.

[eball]

Nice "big picture" interjection, SJBF. With the benefit of hindsight, scouting NFL players is quite easy, isn't it? Nix bashers always bring up Sheppard and A. Williams ... Troup and Carrington are also in the conversations. OK, so we know Troup and Sheppard have not panned out, but we still have a better than 50% chance to get good value out of Carrington and A. Williams.

 

JohnC, you do realize that the hit rate on even the top rounds of the draft is probably less than 50% across the entire league, right? What do you think of his 1st rounders ... Spiller, Dareus, and Gilmore? How about our inexpensive starting LT, Cordy Glenn? Graham, Bradham, Brooks and even Sanders could very well be impact guys this year.

 

I love the "hindsight is always 20/20" view of the junior Jerry Sullivans who lambasted Nix for drafting Spiller as a luxury, but now leave that out of the conversation ... (or worse yet, pretend they really wanted us to keep Marshawn here). At least Nix turned that mess into Chris Hariston. And his dirt cheap free agent acquisitions over the years (Urbik, Chandler, Rinehardt, Pears) certainly should count for something in the overall analysis.

 

I am not saying Nix is the best GM ever; what I do believe is that the lack of talent on the Bills is not nearly as bad as people like to make it out to be, and I love the direction of the team since last year ended. Let's face it, Gailey turned into a very bad hire last year, Fitz fizzled out once pen hit paper, and so Nix did what he had to do as soon as he possibly could do it.

 

Post more.

[Cash]

The Senior Bowl is big time important to setting a perception of a player's value. That's where EJ opened eyes. "Falling in love" with a player is what happens there. So the Bills came away feeling like Sheppard was a good pick? No surprise. Also, keep in mind he was drafted to play MLB in a 4/3. That seems to be pretty much his wheelhouse. It seems Pettine is going to play 3/4, 4/3, 4/4/3, 46 & maybe even Tampa Two on any given down - and this is important - he wants to be able to do it as much as possible without substituting. Don't know if Hughes can do that but for sure Sheppard can't.

 

We were still running a 3-4 when he was drafted. Only switched to a 4-3 last year, Sheppard's 2nd year.

[JohnC]

Nice "big picture" interjection, SJBF. With the benefit of hindsight, scouting NFL players is quite easy, isn't it? Nix bashers always bring up Sheppard and A. Williams ... Troup and Carrington are also in the conversations. OK, so we know Troup and Sheppard have not panned out, but we still have a better than 50% chance to get good value out of Carrington and A. Williams.

 

JohnC, you do realize that the hit rate on even the top rounds of the draft is probably less than 50% across the entire league, right? What do you think of his 1st rounders ... Spiller, Dareus, and Gilmore? How about our inexpensive starting LT, Cordy Glenn? Graham, Bradham, Brooks and even Sanders could very well be impact guys this year.

 

I love the "hindsight is always 20/20" view of the junior Jerry Sullivans who lambasted Nix for drafting Spiller as a luxury, but now leave that out of the conversation ... (or worse yet, pretend they really wanted us to keep Marshawn here). At least Nix turned that mess into Chris Hariston. And his dirt cheap free agent acquisitions over the years (Urbik, Chandler, Rinehardt, Pears) certainly should count for something in the overall analysis.

 

I am not saying Nix is the best GM ever; what I do believe is that the lack of talent on the Bills is not nearly as bad as people like to make it out to be, and I love the direction of the team since last year ended. Let's face it, Gailey turned into a very bad hire last year, Fitz fizzled out once pen hit paper, and so Nix did what he had to do as soon as he possibly could do it.

 

The hindsight argument when applied to drafted players is a nonsensical argument. You can't fairly evaluate a draft selection when it is made. To make a fair assessment you have to wait a few years and then make your judgment. Overall, Buddy Nix's prior three drafts have turned out to be mediocre. Do I like his first picks in his prior drafts? Yes I do. But is that how you judge his draft record? I don't.

 

Buddy Nix's is the person most responsible for building the roster. That includes personnel decisions regarding free agency, drafting, HC hires and contracts. If you want to criticize Gailey, then who hired him? Nix did. If you want to criticize Fitz, then who gave him the oversized contract? Nix did.

 

In the era of the cap and player movement three years is not an insignificant period of time to judge a GM's performance. His record is 16-32. His team has for the most part been incapable of beating a team that has a winning record. Against two very good teams last year the Bills were embarrassed (San Fran 45-3. Seattle 50-17). That is a humbling measuring stick.

 

A few years ago Seattle hired a new GM and HC. That was around the same time that Nix was hired by the owner. Tell me which team is more advanced when both franchises started the rebuilding process at the same time? Just ask yourself why is there such a wide desparity between the two franchises? If the GM isn't the most influential person in a franchise then who else is?

Edited May 1, 2013 by JohnC

[Kelly the Dog]

The hindsight argument when applied to drafted players is a nonsensical argument. You can't fairly evaluate a draft selection when it is made. To make a fair assessment you have to wait a few years and then make your judgment.

So why are you trashing Nix for Aaron Williams and TJ Graham and any part of his last two drafts?

[JohnC]

So why are you trashing Nix for Aaron Williams and TJ Graham and any part of his last two drafts?

 

Aaron Williams is going into his third year. He has demonstrated that he can't play the position he was drafted for. It didn't take the new regime long to come to that obvious conclusion. With respect to TJ Graham need I remind you that he was taken instead of Russell Wilson. Will Graham turn out to be a good player? I can't say for sure. But what I can say with confidence is that the qb that should have been taken by the Bills in that round was passed over for a project track receiver.

 

Added note: Even Nix has admitted that he waited too long to take a qb in last year's draft. He wouldn't say which one. Take a guess.

[Kelly the Dog]

Aaron Williams is going into his third year. He has demonstrated that he can't play the position he was drafted for. It didn't take the new regime long to come to that obvious conclusion. With respect to TJ Graham need I remind you that he was taken instead of Russell Wilson. Will Graham turn out to be a good player? I can't say for sure. But what I can say with confidence is that the qb that should have been taken by the Bills in that round was passed over for a project track receiver.

 

Added note: Even Nix has admitted that he waited too long to take a qb in last year's draft. He wouldn't say which one. Take a guess.

None of that is the point. You were the one who said it takes a few years to determine if a player or draft is good or not. That's your quote. Yet you continuously, in every post, whether it is about Nix or about purple Chinese pottery, blast Nix for his horrible drafts of the last few years, two of which shouldn't be counted, according to you.

[JohnC]

None of that is the point. You were the one who said it takes a few years to determine if a player or draft is good or not. That's your quote. Yet you continuously, in every post, whether it is about Nix or about purple Chinese pottery, blast Nix for his horrible drafts of the last few years, two of which shouldn't be counted, according to you.

 

In general it does take time to make a fair assessment on draft selections. But that certainly doesn't mean that on particular picks you can't make a conclusive judgment on a particular player. Shepperd can't play in this league. He has no football instincts. That's why he is off the roster. That might not be clear to you but it is to the Bills' organization. It didn't take the Bills long to conclude that Aaron Williams couldn't be a starting CB in this league. Not only did the new regime come to that conclusion so did the prior regime. Why do you think that Williams was shifted to the safey position? It certainly wasn't because he showed much promise as a CB on a team needing additional CBs. Don't be surprised if this second round Nix selection gets cut. This is a player we took instead of Kaepernick.

 

Nix is a good guy but as a GM he is out of his depth. His record is a testament to his performance. Why do I focus a lot of attention on him? He is the primary decision- maker in the football operation. Who is most responsible for the roster and the team record?

 

If you think he is doing an exemplary job then you are entitled to your opinion. I don't. If you believe he has had in general prior good drafts then that is an opinion I strenuously disagree with.

Edited May 1, 2013 by JohnC

[eball]

In general it does take time to make a fair assessment on draft selections. But that certainly doesn't mean that on particular picks you can't make a conclusive judgment on a particular player. Shepperd can't play in this league. He has no football instincts. That's why he is off the roster. That might not be clear to you but it is to the Bills' organization. It didn't take the Bills long to conclude that Aaron Williams couldn't be a starting CB in this league. Not only did the new regime come to that conclusion so did the prior regime. Why do you think that Williams was shifted to the safey position? It certainly wasn't because he showed much promise as a CB on a team needing additional CBs. Don't be surprised if this second round Nix selection gets cut. This is a player we took instead of Kaepernick.

 

Nix is a good guy but as a GM he is out of his depth. His record is a testament to his performance. Why do I focus a lot of attention on him? He is the primary decision- maker in the football operation. Who is most responsible for the roster and the team record?

 

If you think he is doing an exemplary job then you are entitled to your opinion. I don't. If you believe he has had in general prior good drafts then that is an opinion I strenuously disagree with.

 

I guarantee you can go through most (if not all) NFL organizations and cherry-pick 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks over the past three years who are considered "disappointing" at this stage in their careers. You can do the same thing with late round picks and FA acquisitions. I've challenged the "Nix is a buffoon" posters to do that analysis, and then report back. I've yet to be taken up on it -- they just keep hammering on Torrel Troup, Kelvin Sheppard, and Aaron Williams, and belabor Nix's failure to draft a QB before now (a point even the most ardent Nix supporters conceded long ago).

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

None of that is the point. You were the one who said it takes a few years to determine if a player or draft is good or not. That's your quote. Yet you continuously, in every post, whether it is about Nix or about purple Chinese pottery, blast Nix for his horrible drafts of the last few years, two of which shouldn't be counted, according to you.

 

Thanks, Kelly the Dog.

 

JohnC - I understand your points about 'this is all on Buddy's watch' ... how do you feel about the Buffalo Sabres GM? Oh, nevermind ...

 

I can't answer for what Seattle has done other than to say Pete Carroll has done a better job than I thought he might, and it sure helps when you finally get a QB who can play. It is so easy to say "we should have drafted Russell Wilson, and we should have taken Gronk over Aaron Williams" blah blah blah. What a miserable existence it must be to live totally in the past.

 

As far as the record of Buddy, let me say that I dislike talk about the won-loss records of QBs - I find it to be disrespectful to every other team member. I totally understand why coaches are judged on their won-loss records, since it is a production business, as Chan has said often.

 

But even looking at last year, Buddy had absolutely nothing to do with Chan not broaching the subject of discussing defense with his DC, Dave Wannstedt, because it "wasn't his place to do so" from week-to-week. Are you kidding me, Chan? Renee Zellweger had Jerry Maguire at "Hello," and Chan lost me at the exact moment I hear the clip in which he said that.

 

Buddy also didn't squander all-but-certain W's versus the Titans and Rams in the Ralph like Chan did. Unless he was going to fire Chan mid-season, he could only sit and watch as Chan punted from the opponent's 34, and called plays vs. Miami that kept the ball in Choice's hands (and out of Spiller's).

 

So Buddy sharpened the guillotine and dropped it asafp. And time will tell, but from early appearances, he was able to bring in a much better coach than his first time around. Every move since the season ended makes good sense to me. Hearing that he traded Sheppard, which you seem to agree with, was sweet music to my ears.

 

Having said all that, I will freely admit that I usually do my best to enjoy the sugar rush every year. I see the Kool-Aid glass as half full, you obviously prefer to say it is half empty and the kids down the street get it more often.

Edited May 1, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[JohnC]

Thanks, Kelly the Dog.

 

JohnC - I understand your points about 'this is all on Buddy's watch' ... how do you feel about the Buffalo Sabres GM? Oh, nevermind ...

 

 

 

I believe in accountability for one's performance. How long has Regier been the GM of the Sabres? His record is his record. He should have been fired a long time ago.

 

I guarantee you can go through most (if not all) NFL organizations and cherry-pick 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks over the past three years who are considered "disappointing" at this stage in their careers. You can do the same thing with late round picks and FA acquisitions. I've challenged the "Nix is a buffoon" posters to do that analysis, and then report back. I've yet to be taken up on it -- they just keep hammering on Torrel Troup, Kelvin Sheppard, and Aaron Williams, and belabor Nix's failure to draft a QB before now (a point even the most ardent Nix supporters conceded long ago).

 

I haven't said he is a buffoon. He is a fine fellow. What I have unequivocally said is as a GM he is mediocre. Not getting everything wrong doesn't mean you are doing a good job. His record is 16-32. Making a judgment on him doesn't require cherry picking.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I am not saying Nix is the best GM ever; what I do believe is that the lack of talent on the Bills is not nearly as bad as people like to make it out to be….

 

I feel this way too and have posted that thought more than once.

 

The two biggest determinants for success in the NFL is a good QB and a good Head Coach.

 

Nix finally pulled the trigger on a QB and was given the good fortune of hiring his second Head Coach.

 

Wanny is gone too.

 

While I'm very lukewarm about the job Nix did in his first three years, his biggest failings were hiring Gailey and not drafting Kaepernick or Russell Wilson.

 

All the rest of his work is average IMO.

 

And I believe in stories of redemption. Be careful of damning the tenure of Buddy Nix. It might be premature.