Complete 180 in WR Talent

[Kelly the Dog]

I doubt Marrone was in charge of this draft.

He wasn't. But he did come in with Hackett and say, "Here is what we're going to run, and here is what we need. We need a versatile QB that can get the ball down the field. We need speed. You can't coach speed. We want guys that can hit homeruns that love to play football. Him and Pettine said, here is what we're going to run. We want aggressive, versatile guys who love football and love to take heads off."

 

And Nix and Whaley went and found those guys.

 

This draft had Marrone, Hackett and Pettine all over it.

[eball]

 

 

Arrogant? Slow down, son! I don't know how you are using that word, but it just seemed obvious to me that this entire sea change of a draft coincided with the arrival of a very energetic, forward thinking head coach. I know it pains you to be asked to look back on the previous 3 drafts and tell me if you can't see it's like night and day between the drafting philosophies (and the overall quality of draftees to this point). But you at some point have to acknowledge the obvious. Do you think this draft looks anything like this with Nix/Chan?

 

Being "the face of the front office" has absolutely nothing to do with my comment. Every GM in the NFL is the face of the front office. You either somehow missed my point, or you intentionally ignored it to prop up Buddy. If he' s doen such a great job, it should be obvious to everyone uniformly and he certainly wouldn't need you sprinting to his defense after pretty innocuous posts like mine above....

 

Perhaps you don't understand, SON, that the job of a GM is to work with his coaching staff to get the players that staff wants to implement their philosophy. The GM and his staff do the scouting and set up the board. That's Nix. If you like the players they brought in, then you have to respect the job Nix did. It's that simple. Perhaps we all like Marrone's philosophy more, which is why most are so pleased.

[swnybillsfan]

i believe that it has a lot to do with who nix is picking the players for. i'm sure that the type of player that chan and wanny wanted are much different than the type of players that marrone, petting and hackett want. and i'm sure that nix and whaley run their draft with a heavy bias on what the coaches are looking for in their players.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Easy everybody, can we stop bickering over who we credit for a draft we like and just enjoy it?

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Right...I forgot where I was . Carry on

[Bob in STL]

Ok guys we added some talent and speed for sure but lets not get too excited yet. There is a ton of work to do here.

 

 

WR is one of the toughest positions to step into. It is hard enough to draft one blue chip WR and add him into an existing offense in a stable system. In our case we have a new QB (Kolb), a rookie QB (Manuel), and a new OC (Hackett) installing a new system. SJ is the only veteran left that is proven NFL wideout. Brad Smith is gone, the Bills are going to develop their picks. Graham is being challenged. Easley is not a safe bet to contribute anything. Then you have this mass of rookies all learning.

 

This will be both exciting and frustrating to watch. At least this new core will develop together. I expect a lot of confusion for the offense in the early pre-season and maybe by week 5 things start to sharpen up.

 

I just hope the OL continues to improve, we will really need CJ and Freddy.

 

- Bob

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Thanks for the merge. I thought I had seen this thread before but I couldn't find it this morning.

[Kelly the Dog]

Being a UCLA fan I've watched Woods for years. I don't think it's going to take him long to learn the game. He's very polished already and should step in to be immediate help as a #2. Now, it's still unclear if the Bills have a guy who can actually get him and Stevie the ball...

Oh I agree. I actually think that Woods will start opposite Stevie.

[Doc]

He wasn't. But he did come in with Hackett and say, "Here is what we're going to run, and here is what we need. We need a versatile QB that can get the ball down the field. We need speed. You can't coach speed. We want guys that can hit homeruns that love to play football. Him and Pettine said, here is what we're going to run. We want aggressive, versatile guys who love football and love to take heads off."

 

And Nix and Whaley went and found those guys.

 

This draft had Marrone, Hackett and Pettine all over it.

I agree that the coaches told the GM's what they wanted. But as you said, the GM's found and drafted the guys. What might have been a difference is Marrone telling them to take a chance on guys with troubled pasts, whereas guys like Jauron and Gailey might have told them to stay away from them.

Ok guys we added some talent and speed for sure but lets not get too excited yet. There is a ton of work to do here.

 

 

WR is one of the toughest positions to step into. It is hard enough to draft one blue chip WR and add him into an existing offense in a stable system. In our case we have a new QB (Kolb), a rookie QB (Manuel), and a new OC (Hackett) installing a new system. SJ is the only veteran left that is proven NFL wideout. Brad Smith is gone, the Bills are going to develop their picks. Graham is being challenged. Easley is not a safe bet to contribute anything. Then you have this mass of rookies all learning.

 

This will be both exciting and frustrating to watch. At least this new core will develop together. I expect a lot of confusion for the offense in the early pre-season and maybe by week 5 things start to sharpen up.

 

I just hope the OL continues to improve, we will really need CJ and Freddy.

 

- Bob

True WR takes time to learn. But compared to last year, the talent level is much better and even though they're rookies, still should provide better play.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I would wager that Rogers has significant on-field issues in terms of processing the playbook, running routes consistently, and making mental adjustments.

 

That was a knock on him early. All that and quitting when he wasnt a 1/2 option on a play. Hopefully he's realized his talent doesn't overcome his bad attitude.

[JohnC]

That was a knock on him early. All that and quitting when he wasnt a 1/2 option on a play. Hopefully he's realized his talent doesn't overcome his bad attitude.

 

There isn't a team in the NFL that isn't aware of his immense physical talents as a receiver and also his heavy character baggage. Probably the majority of teams interviewed him to get a feeling as to whether he was a redeemable player and person..Not one team took a risk drafting him at all. What does that tell you?

 

Is he worth the risk of taking as an UDFA? Why not. If he falters then you cut him. Even if the odds work against you there is nothing wrong betting on a long shot talent.

[Mr. WEO]

I agree that the coaches told the GM's what they wanted. But as you said, the GM's found and drafted the guys. What might have been a difference is Marrone telling them to take a chance on guys with troubled pasts, whereas guys like Jauron and Gailey might have told them to stay away from them.

 

True WR takes time to learn. But compared to last year, the talent level is much better and even though they're rookies, still should provide better play.

 

I imagine it more like this: the scouts and GM put together the draft list or top 100. But in the war room, I am convinced that it is the HC's call on who they select at each slot. I can't believe that the HC just gives them a shopping list and sits back while the GM makes the picks.

 

If only the coaching staff knows exactly what they want, how cna they no tbe the ones making the picks? It's the only way it makes sense. EJ Manuel is a good example. Given Buddy's proven inability to scout or pick QBs, the rather shocking move to get EJ at 16 has to have been Marrone's pick. In fact, I'm betting he had to convince Buddy to make that pick. I'm thinking Buddy would have been happy to pick a "safer" guy like Nassib, or, as it was reported, Barkley.

[Kelly the Dog]

I imagine it more like this: the scouts and GM put together the draft list or top 100. But in the war room, I am convinced that it is the HC's call on who they select at each slot. I can't believe that the HC just gives them a shopping list and sits back while the GM makes the picks.

 

If only the coaching staff knows exactly what they want, how cna they no tbe the ones making the picks? It's the only way it makes sense. EJ Manuel is a good example. Given Buddy's proven inability to scout or pick QBs, the rather shocking move to get EJ at 16 has to have been Marrone's pick. In fact, I'm betting he had to convince Buddy to make that pick. I'm thinking Buddy would have been happy to pick a "safer" guy like Nassib, or, as it was reported, Barkley.

Then why wasn't your vitriol aimed at Chan Gailey and not Buddy Nix over the last three years?

[Mr. WEO]

Then why wasn't your vitriol aimed at Chan Gailey and not Buddy Nix over the last three years?

 

It was also. Try to keep up!

 

The two of them together, with the 3-4, the 4-3, the curtis Modkins, George Edwards, the Wanny and all of the questionable picks--it was clear that these two were the Keysone cops for 3 years....

 

...and suddenly it's a "180" and that's because the new coaching staff left a better list of "what they wanted"? Not convincing at all.

[Kelly the Dog]

It was also. Try to keep up!

 

The two of them together, with the 3-4, the 4-3, the curtis Modkins, George Edwards, the Wanny and all of the questionable picks--it was clear that these two were the Keysone cops for 3 years....

 

...and suddenly it's a "180" and that's because the new coaching staff left a better list of "what they wanted"? Not convincing at all.

GMs make draft picks, especially Buddy Nix who is a glorified scout. They work together with the head coach and coordinators and TRY to get a consensus but their job is to make the picks. Some coaches, if they have power over personnel, like Bellichick and Andy Reid, etc, have bigger says. When Jauron was here and we really didn't have a real GM he had bigger say. Nix makes the picks to fit what the coaches tell him they want to run.

 

I have posted earlier that Marrone, Hackett and Pettine were all over this draft, and they were. But that is because they not only have specific wants, but the team was lacking in the important wants. The offense looked for playmaking and speed, the defense looked for versatility and headhunting. We didn't have a lot of those players, and Nix went out and got them.

 

I actually think that these guys just meshed pretty well, between Nix, Whaley, Marrone, Hackett and Pettine, and there really was a clearer strategy and goal.

[JohnC]

I imagine it more like this: the scouts and GM put together the draft list or top 100. But in the war room, I am convinced that it is the HC's call on who they select at each slot. I can't believe that the HC just gives them a shopping list and sits back while the GM makes the picks.

 

If only the coaching staff knows exactly what they want, how cna they no tbe the ones making the picks? It's the only way it makes sense. EJ Manuel is a good example. Given Buddy's proven inability to scout or pick QBs, the rather shocking move to get EJ at 16 has to have been Marrone's pick. In fact, I'm betting he had to convince Buddy to make that pick. I'm thinking Buddy would have been happy to pick a "safer" guy like Nassib, or, as it was reported, Barkley.

 

Buddy and the staff knew in advance who their favored qb prospect was in advance. There was no debate in the room as to which qb was going to be taken. Of course the coaches and the scouts are involved in the process. How else are you going to put together your board and your draft strategy?

 

It's a collaborative process. Ultimately he has the final say. On this particular qb pick he and the staff spent a lot time and effort in researching this pick. Determining who was most influentical in selecting EJ is impossible for us as outsiders to know. There is no doubt that Marrone and the OC had a significant input in the decision, and so did the scouts.

 

It doesn't matter to me whether the GM has an autocratic or delegator style of management. There are different styles of management that both succeed and fail. The GM is the boss of the football operation. He is the one who is most responsible for the construction of the roster. If there is a conflict in opionions in the draft room he is the decider.

[Kelly the Dog]

The one thing I love about the infusion of talent and pretty much complete overhaul of the WR corp is the fact that all three are completely different kind of receivers but all with pretty good speed (and one with blazing speed).

 

Woods is pro ready, and very reliable, with decent size and runs great routes. Goodwin is the blazer and gadget guy who can line up all over and be a homerun any play. Da'Ricky is the big physical guy who loves contact and "is open when he is not open" and can go up and get it.

 

Each is nice to have in its own right, the combination is really exciting to me.

 

It also changes your other players. TJ is a crappy #2, but could be a very nice #3 or #4. Easley or Brad Smith is a shaky #3, but could be a very nice #4, #5 or #6.

[NoSaint]

 

GMs make draft picks, especially Buddy Nix who is a glorified scout. They work together with the head coach and coordinators and TRY to get a consensus but their job is to make the picks. Some coaches, if they have power over personnel, like Bellichick and Andy Reid, etc, have bigger says. When Jauron was here and we really didn't have a real GM he had bigger say. Nix makes the picks to fit what the coaches tell him they want to run.

 

I have posted earlier that Marrone, Hackett and Pettine were all over this draft, and they were. But that is because they not only have specific wants, but the team was lacking in the important wants. The offense looked for playmaking and speed, the defense looked for versatility and headhunting. We didn't have a lot of those players, and Nix went out and got them.

 

I actually think that these guys just meshed pretty well, between Nix, Whaley, Marrone, Hackett and Pettine, and there really was a clearer strategy and goal.

 

Agreed. GM grills potential coaches about scheme, philosophy etc... Picks his guy. Coach gets scouts and GM his priorities in evaluation. GM puts together a board based on priorities in the coaches schemes/style. From there I think you go by the board but coaches might tag a few guys as priority and the GM makes every effort to get that guy (EJ for example)

Edited April 28, 2013 by NoSaint

[Doc]

I imagine it more like this: the scouts and GM put together the draft list or top 100. But in the war room, I am convinced that it is the HC's call on who they select at each slot. I can't believe that the HC just gives them a shopping list and sits back while the GM makes the picks.

 

If only the coaching staff knows exactly what they want, how cna they no tbe the ones making the picks? It's the only way it makes sense. EJ Manuel is a good example. Given Buddy's proven inability to scout or pick QBs, the rather shocking move to get EJ at 16 has to have been Marrone's pick. In fact, I'm betting he had to convince Buddy to make that pick. I'm thinking Buddy would have been happy to pick a "safer" guy like Nassib, or, as it was reported, Barkley.

The draft only differed in the types of players the Bills selected. As I said, I'm willing to give credit for taking a chance of risky players to Marrone, who seems like the kind of guy who would tell Buddy he can handle them, whereas guys like Jauron and Gailey wouldn't want/be able to. I think it's fairly obvious that after 3 years and no QB, Buddy had to finally bite the bullet and take one, and might have had to take one higher than people thought so as to not lose him (a la Kaep or Wilson). And while there was likely a consensus, Buddy still made the picks. And the players selected still have to succeed.

 

As for Manuel, I see him as a Kaep/Wilson type of player, i.e. able to keep plays alive with their feet. So Nix taking him isn't such a shock, seeing the success those other guys have had.

[IndyMark]

The one thing I love about the infusion of talent and pretty much complete overhaul of the WR corp is the fact that all three are completely different kind of receivers but all with pretty good speed (and one with blazing speed).

 

Woods is pro ready, and very reliable, with decent size and runs great routes. Goodwin is the blazer and gadget guy who can line up all over and be a homerun any play. Da'Ricky is the big physical guy who loves contact and "is open when he is not open" and can go up and get it.

 

Each is nice to have in its own right, the combination is really exciting to me.

 

It also changes your other players. TJ is a crappy #2, but could be a very nice #3 or #4. Easley or Brad Smith is a shaky #3, but could be a very nice #4, #5 or #6.

 

And, ironically, I just caught the tail-end of a show with Mariucci and Irvin focusing on "top prospect" WRs.....where Irvin teaches elements of the pro-game......anywho, what was interesting is the Bills are now in possession of 2 of the top 5(6?) WRs highlighted on the show and who were brought in to work with Mooch / Irvin.....Woods and Rodgers.....pretty interesting and informative piece, especially in light of this draft. Me thinks this could pan out quite well for the Bills in 2013 and beyond.

[Lurker]

Brad Smith is a shaky #3

IMO, Brad's got to be gone in this offense, now that we have some size on the outside.

 

He's a long strider, rather than quick, which is what this group is going to emphasize. And I just can't see any Wildcat in the Bills future.

 

And most of all, with a $2.75 million cap save (and $3.25 million cash save) by cutting him, you can essentially pay for Dansby or Moore, should the coaching staff like to add some veteran presence.

 

http://www.overtheca...Bills&Year=2013

Edited April 28, 2013 by Lurker