Tragedy or Farce ?

[DC Tom]

It's just this easy for me: show me secure borders. And I mean lock-down secure. Raise my taxes just to pay for more people to stand in riot gear along the borders for the next three years and haul off anyone who so much as taps a toe across the line. Let's get some drones out there, too. We're so happy to fly them around...let's set them up on the border.

 

 

What makes you think they're not already?

 

Even if not ICE, DEA and ATF have got to be operating some.

[IDBillzFan]

What makes you think they're not already?

 

Even if not ICE, DEA and ATF have got to be operating some.

 

They may be, but if they do, I suspect the WH has them flying along the border pulling a banner that says "Follow me to an easier route in" where they're met by a person at a table asking "¿Está registrado para votar?"

[Magox]

Well, I also appreciate your optimism.

 

Unfortunately the scenario that I envision, is the Senate passes the "compromise" (left-leaning) bill. Then, and as you stated Magox, the House will try to even the bill out, shoring up the security part.

 

However, those in the Senate will refuse to compromise and following their track record, the Dem leaders and the President will let the bill collapse rather than make ANY concession at all, for the purely political reason of helping the democrat party in 2014.

 

its what they do.

 

 

 

 

.

 

That's fine, but it's still not a reason to oppose immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship and border security. So the idea should be to make it as good of a bill as possible and go into this with a positive frame of mind. If Democrats look to weaken the border security portion of the bill, then that's on them. And you can in good conscience say that you supported the opportunity to pass an effective immigration bill, and that it was the Democrats who torpedoed the bill by going against what the American public wanted, which is to secure borders as well.

 

btw, don't think that the immigration activists aren't paying attention, they will know who was working in good faith and who wasn't. If they see that Democrats take the cynical approach they will also hold them accountable as well. They would rather have 2/3 of what they want than nothing. They also understand that in order for a bill to pass, it has to meet "conservative" demands of border security. You think this is their first rodeo? They know the challenges of immigration reform. While you may believe that the president will try to use this as a political weapon moving forward, they don't care about that. They want results, which is true immigration reform.

 

Also, as I stated earlier, the president DESPERATELY wants this to pass. His legacy is at stake, and this is his best shot of having something meaningfully positive for his legacy. Remember, he already won his election, the motivation to use this as a political sledge hammer doesn't interest him nearly as much as his legacy.

[IDBillzFan]

Here's your bill.

 

http://www.schumer.senate.gov/forms/immigration.pdf

 

Section 2313 looks like it's going to be a big winner.

[Magox]

“I’ve never said this has to be done quickly," Rubio said. "This country has been struggling with this for three decades. Let’s do it right so we don’t have to do it again."

Read more: http://thehill.com/b...r#ixzz2RV4Xp9FH

 

 

 

“From my perspective, we’ve seen how this administration has abused waiver authority in the so-called Affordable Care Act to exempt political favorites from the law that applies to everybody else. I think this Congress’s job is to set the standard,” said Sen. John Cornyn (Texas), the second-ranking member of the Senate Republican leadership and a member of the Judiciary Committee.

Cornyn said in the immigration bill “there are multiple opportunities to waive and exempt people from the operation of the bill.”

“When Congress passes laws it ought to apply to everybody equally,” said Cornyn.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a member of the Senate’s Gang of Eight, which drafted the bill, said he’s open to reducing Napolitano’s authority to waive provisions of the bill.

“Some criticisms may be valid, and if they are, they should be addressed through the amendment process,” he said. “If people feel that way, I certainly welcome the opportunity to fix it and make the bill better.

“I view the bill as a starting point,” he said.

Read more: http://thehill.com/h...e#ixzz2RV4zyA5g

 

 

 

There is little doubt in my mind that there will be tons of opportunities to improve this bill for those lawmakers who have a genuine interest in achieving what the majority of Americans want, which is Immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship and secure borders.

 

 

So when you say

 

 

"Here's your bill"

 

 

 

It implies, that this is the bill that will be voted on. Which is absolutely not the case. So it's not the bill, it's exactly what Marco Rubio says it is, which is a "starting point".

 

 

 

“There’s a lot of things in the Senate bill that are right, but the reality is that the Senate is controlled by Democrats and the House is controlled by Republicans, and what you’re going to see out of the House is probably a more Republican bill,” Rep. Raúl Labrador (R-Idaho), a conservative member of the House group, said Wednesday at an event sponsored by the Heritage Foundation.

A Democratic member of the group, Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (Ill.), told an audience in Chicago on Monday that the Senate bill would be “a more moderate bill than the bill that comes out of the House.”

Read more: http://thehill.com/h...t#ixzz2RV7dcxYi

 

 

Two important points, one that Raul labrador who is taking the lead on the immigration reform for house republicans will make the bill more "conservative".

 

 

two, Luis Gutierrez who has been the top advocate from democrats for immigration reform, who has lots of pull, is fully acknowledging that the Senate Bill, which will be even more to the right than the one you just posted, will be even more to the left than what will come out of the house.

 

 

In other words, the final bill will be to the right of anything that we have seen.

 

The Senate Judiciary Committee will begin marking up the so-called Gang of Eight comprehensive immigration reform legislation on May 9, the panel’s chairman announced Thursday.

Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) said any amendments to the legislation, formally known as the Border Security, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013, will be made public on the committee’s website before the markups begin.

 

The chairman predicted that dozens of amendments could be filed, so several subsequent markup dates have been scheduled: May 14, May 16, May 20, and any time after that may be needed to finish the legislation.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/senate-immigration-bill-markup-may-9-90637.html#ixzz2RVA8sE3C

Edited April 25, 2013 by Magox

[Joe Miner]

 

Read more: http://thehill.com/b...r#ixzz2RV4Xp9FH

 

 

 

 

 

Read more: http://thehill.com/h...e#ixzz2RV4zyA5g

 

 

 

There is little doubt in my mind that there will be tons of opportunities to improve this bill for those lawmakers who have a genuine interest in achieving what the majority of Americans want, which is Immigration reform that includes a pathway to citizenship and secure borders.

 

 

So when you say

 

 

"Here's your bill"

 

 

 

It implies, that this is the bill that will be voted on. Which is absolutely not the case. So it's not the bill, it's exactly what Marco Rubio says it is, which is a "starting point".

 

 

 

 

 

Read more: http://thehill.com/h...t#ixzz2RV7dcxYi

 

 

Two important points, one that Raul labrador who is taking the lead on the immigration reform for house republicans will make the bill more "conservative".

 

 

two, Luis Gutierrez who has been the top advocate from democrats for immigration reform, who has lots of pull, is fully acknowledging that the Senate Bill, which will be even more to the right than the one you just posted, will be even more to the left than what will come out of the house.

 

 

In other words, the final bill will be to the right of anything that we have seen.

 

 

Unfortunately the idea that once the Bill is presented both sides can have an intelligent discussion to improve it is...laughable.

[IDBillzFan]

Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2RVA8sE3C

 

Wasn't so much implying as giving a link to the bill. I expect it to be tweaked and modified before the vote, but I have to agree with Joe Miner on his point about a lack of intelligence, if for no other reason than you can expect Obama to screw it up long before he grasps how desperate he truly needs to be to get it passed.

[Magox]

Well, you're not gonna goad me into a conversation regarding the competence of Congress and the President.

 

However, that is not an excuse to not to genuinely attempt to pass an immigration bill that the majority of American's support.

[IDBillzFan]

Well, you're not gonna goad me into a conversation regarding the competence of Congress and the President.

 

However, that is not an excuse to not to genuinely attempt to pass an immigration bill that the majority of American's support.

 

An immigration bill is second only to gun control and gnat-swatting in terms of what the majority of Americans actually want their elected officials to work on right now

 

It's a bullschitt topic, just like gun control, meant only to serve as a talking point for 2014 so people forget that 90 million Americans are out of the work force.

 

But hey...people support it, so let's do something so we look busy.

[Magox]

An immigration bill is second only to gun control and gnat-swatting in terms of what the majority of Americans actually want their elected officials to work on right now

 

It's a bullschitt topic, just like gun control, meant only to serve as a talking point for 2014 so people forget that 90 million Americans are out of the work force.

 

But hey...people support it, so let's do something so we look busy.

 

It's a bull **** topic for right wingers. Latino's care about it very much, and you can count me with that group And if you don't think that immigration played a key role in Florida, Arizona, NM, CO and NV, then you are one delusional dude.

 

But keep burying your head in the sand believing that people don't care about this topic.

[IDBillzFan]

It's a bull **** topic for right wingers. Latino's care about it very much, and you can count me with that group And if you don't think that immigration played a key role in Florida, Arizona, NM, CO and NV, then you are one delusional dude.

 

But keep burying your head in the sand believing that people don't care about this topic.

 

Oh, gee. Latinos care about an immigration bill? No schitt, Sherlock. I suppose gays care about a gay marriage bill, too. But if you think the only people who DON'T consider an immigration bill to be a priority are right wingers, then whose head is really in the sand?

 

To Americans, it's a bullschitt topic. Look at the polls. They're easy to find. Start here... http://www.pollingre...om/prioriti.htm 4%...3%...4%...

 

You know what Americans want as a priority? Someone paying attention to the economy...to the jobs market.

 

But I guess what MOST Americans OVERWHELMINGLY want should wait until we've spent enough time trying to pass a bill that is ONLY getting attention so someone can use it as a club against opponents.

[Magox]

Oh, gee. Latinos care about an immigration bill? No schitt, Sherlock. I suppose gays care about a gay marriage bill, too. But if you think the only people who DON'T consider an immigration bill to be a priority are right wingers, then whose head is really in the sand?

 

To Americans, it's a bullschitt topic. Look at the polls. They're easy to find. Start here... http://www.pollingre...om/prioriti.htm 4%...3%...4%...

 

You know what Americans want as a priority? Someone paying attention to the economy...to the jobs market.

 

But I guess what MOST Americans OVERWHELMINGLY want should wait until we've spent enough time trying to pass a bill that is ONLY getting attention so someone can use it as a club against opponents.

 

That's right, they do care about it... So since you aren't Latino, it's a bull **** topic right?

 

Doesn't matter, it's a moot point, despite all your claims, it does matter and this priority WILL become law.

 

Edited April 26, 2013 by Magox

[IDBillzFan]

That's right, they do care about it... So since you aren't Latino, it's a bull **** topic right?

 

Doesn't matter, it's a moot point, despite all your claims, it does matter and this priority WILL become law.

 

 

If they can pass a law that unequivocally begins with shutting down the border FIRST, then I'm all for it. I simply don't trust DC to do anything more than FUBAR the bill to ensure they have a hammer.

 

Obama has the Latino vote already. He doesn't need an immigration bill. What he doesn't have going into 2014 is a hammer. To think that Obama cares more about Latinos than the hammer is laughable, and we both know it.

[Magox]

If they can pass a law that unequivocally begins with shutting down the border FIRST, then I'm all for it.

 

I'm glad you said this... Honestly

[3rdnlng]

I'm glad you said this... Honestly

 

You and I (and others) had this discussion a couple years ago. Many of us feel exactly like LA does. We know that the border has to be secure for any lasting immigration reform to work. We don't trust the federal government to secure the border no matter what's in the bill. Since we don't trust them, we want a secure border first.

[B-Man]

For those who think 'immigration reform' is being rushed through Congress, meet Bob Goodlatte,

 

 

 

Bob Goodlatte’s Slow Burn ;He’s not rushing to pass an immigration bill.

 

There is a vocal group of Republicans and Democrats who would like to pass comprehensive immigration reform as soon as possible.

And then there’s Bob Goodlatte.

 

Goodlatte, the chairman of the House judiciary committee, tells National Review that he won’t be hurried by anyone. Even if editorialists (or fellow Republicans) get impatient, he’ll proceed with caution — and his committee will control the clock.

 

“I’m always hearing that this has to happen by a certain point,” he says. “But I just don’t subscribe to that.”

 

Moving forward, he’ll mostly ignore the Gang of Eight’s plan, which was proposed last week in the Senate. Instead, he and his committee will carve up the issue and propose a series of bills. “I’m dedicated to that pursuit, and I’m convinced that the vast majority of the Republican conference agrees,” he says, including Speaker John Boehner.

 

Earlier this year, Boehner pledged to House Republicans that he’d let committee chairmen have more control over the legislative process. That gives Goodlatte, a Virginia Republican, wide latitude to determine the pace and structure of any immigration legislation.

 

Goodlatte’s power irks the Senate’s Gang, since he isn’t making a path to legalization for illegal immigrants a priority. “We can’t do individual bills,” Democrat Chuck Schumer of New York said this week, when asked about Goodlatte’s strategy. “The idea of doing separate bills is just not going to work.”

 

Goodlatte shrugs off that criticism. In fact, he says, the Senate’s push to lead their proposal with a path-to-legalization component has dampened the House’s enthusiasm for pursuing a larger package. “When the president and others put down a mandate saying, ‘This has to be in there,’ you have to worry about whether they really want to do immigration reform,” he explains.

 

Goodlatte confides that there is widespread aversion to anything that’s “comprehensive.” House Republicans are increasingly nervous, he says, and they’re not motivated — at all — to sell a bulky bill to their constituents.

 

That’s bad news for the Gang of Eight and a bipartisan group in the House that’s working on its own bill. Those negotiating teams have been hoping that their compromises would be the impetus for reform.

 

Goodlatte says he appreciates their efforts, but House Republicans are simply not going to sign on to any legislation that has been crafted outside of what’s called “regular order.”

 

Regular order means that before a bill hits the floor, a committee must first vet it with hearings and markups. It means that committee members, rather than “gangs,” finalize the legislation.

 

“What eight people decide isn’t going to be the be-all, end-all for the House,” Goodlatte says.

 

{snip}

 

“I tell them that we’re going to break this all down into pieces that are more digestible,” he says. “We’re going to have a lot of hearings, and we’re going to turn this into separate bills. We’ll do an agricultural-workers bill, then an E-Verify bill, and then after the recess, we’ll maybe do some more. But it’s all a work in progress.”

 

A vague deadline, piecemeal legislation, and months of town-hall meetings, however, are what the proponents of comprehensive immigration reform fear most. There is growing concern by allies of the Gang of Eight that volatile summertime confrontations with constituents could make many House Republicans uneasy.

 

Goodlatte has little patience for such hand-wringing. As a former immigration attorney who has been in the House for two decades, he says doing things his way — a slow burn — is the only viable option.

 

“You can’t solve all of the problems with one bill,” he says. “We don’t want to be in the situation you had with Obamacare, where, as Nancy Pelosi said, you have to pass a bill to find out what’s in it.”

[Magox]

For those who think 'immigration reform' is being rushed through Congress, meet Bob Goodlatte,

 

Yep... it absolutely will not be "rushed" or "jammed" through congress. It will be a long, deliberative process that will allow all people who are working in good faith to add amendments and to strengthen the bill and help ensure border security measures. Of course, there will be those who say they are working in good faith who absolutely have no desire to improve or pass any bill that includes a pathway to citizenship, who will introduce "poison pill" amendments and measures in order to try defeat this piece of legislation.

[Magox]

Sen. Marco Rubio acknowledged Tuesday on a conservative radio talk show that the Gang of Eight’s comprehensive immigration reform bill won’t likely pass the Republican-led House.

The comments from Rubio, perhaps the most influential congressional Republican on immigration, illustrate the challenges facing the prospects for reform after months of private negotiations by a bipartisan coalition of senators produced a wide-ranging, 844-page bill.

“The bill that’s in place right now probably can’t pass the House,” Rubio

, a nationally syndicated talk show host. “It will have to be adjusted, because people are very suspicious about the willingness of the government to enforce the laws now.”

He continued: “That is a very legitimate suspicion, it’s one that I share, and if there’s anything we can do to make [the bill] even tighter … that’s exactly what we should be working on.”

The Florida Republican called the Gang of Eight bill a “starting point” and urged opponents to proposes changes to the bill, not try to kill it altogether.

“Let’s try to fix it,” Rubio said. “Let’s try to change it, but to just say let’s defeat the whole thing, I don’t think that’s a productive approach either.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/marco-rubio-immigration-bill-cant-pass-the-house-90789.html#ixzz2Rz5t9eMT

[IDBillzFan]

Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2Rz5t9eMT

 

 

I just watched Rubio on Greta's show, and his interview really went a long way to boost my confidence in what he's trying to do. The process is slowing down, they're recognizing the need for fully accountable milestones, and he seems clear that what Obama and Napolitano want is no accountability for milestones, and he says that won't fly. He says it'll cost about $5.5B to protect the border, and I'd like to see them turn to Coburn to find that money. But the border must be first, and I suspect Rubio is ready to carry that message.

 

One thing that dawned on me, and it could be totally off base, but Intentional or not, I think Rubio sees a weakened president and believes he can get enough Dems on his side to pass something that Obama might be loathe to sign. He's certainly the voice of the bill...he's the one making the rounds...so what happens if Rubio is able to craft something popular, get it on Obama's desk, and put him in a position to turn it down?

 

In other words, what if the hammer isn't held by Obama when this is done?

 

I suspect Obama will eat a goat's heart before he let's that happen, but still...Rubio's interview was very solid. I hope he keeps doing what I consider to be the right things. When you hear him speak, he is confident and convincing.

[Magox]

Yep... it absolutely will not be "rushed" or "jammed" through congress. It will be a long, deliberative process that will allow all people who are working in good faith to add amendments and to strengthen the bill and help ensure border security measures. Of course, there will be those who say they are working in good faith who absolutely have no desire to improve or pass any bill that includes a pathway to citizenship, who will introduce "poison pill" amendments and measures in order to try defeat this piece of legislation.

 

Now THIS a "poison pill" amendment:

 

The most serious threat to bipartisan immigration reform doesn’t involve border security or guest workers or even the path to citizenship.

It’s about gay rights.

 

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) has told advocates that he will offer an amendment during the bill markup next week allowing gay Americans to sponsor their foreign-born partners for green cards, just as heterosexual couples can. The measure is likely to pass because Democrats face pressure from gay rights advocates to deal with it in committee, rather than on the Senate floor, where the odds of passage are far less favorable.

 

But by doing so, Republicans warn that Democrats will tank the whole bill.

“It will virtually guarantee that it won’t pass,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a member of the Gang of Eight negotiating group, told POLITICO in a brief interview. “This issue is a difficult enough issue as it is. I respect everyone’s views on it. But ultimately, if that issue is injected into this bill, the bill will fail and the coalition that helped put it together will fall apart.”

 

Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2S3tvIKZ6

 

 

 

Everyone understands that in order for a bill to pass, that it will take as many conservatives as possible to vote for this bill. One of the major boosters of this bill coming from Conservative quarters is coming from the Evangelicals, and Leahy and other liberals know full well that if they add this amendment, the Evangelicals will bail and will absolutely derail whatever hopes there are to get a bill through.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Magox