A Big Ugly

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Lane Johnson baby! (wont be upset with Austin or Patterson either)

[hondo in seattle]

Games in the NFL now are won by your ability pass and stop the pass.

 

So how to pass effectively? Give your QB time to throw.

 

How to stop the opponent from passing effectively? Don't give him time to throw.

 

The trenches still matter.

 

It took me a long time to acknowledge Brady was a great QB because every time I watched the Pats play, Brady had all freaking day to throw the ball. Almost any NFL QB will look good when he has enough time to crochet a sweater back there.

Edited April 20, 2013 by hondo in seattle

[yungmack]

Of all the areas where this team really needs help bigtime, Oline is not at the top of the list. I agree it would be great to add one of those guys, but because of the holes in the roster, they can't afford "luxury" picks. The irony is that a succesful team like the Niners, with 13 picks CAN do exactly that while the Bills, with a puny 6 have to severely limit themselves. "The rich get richer..."

Edited April 21, 2013 by yungmack

[CookieG]

Yea right, just tell that to the 49ers with 3 #1 draft picks on their O line, Just look at their offense actually built thu the draft. 2012 roster FIVE, 1st rounders, TWO, 3rds, one 5th, and one 7th at FB. Plus the starting QB at the end of the season was a 2nd rounder.

 

That team has got to be the favorite to win the SB this year.

 

 

Ok you say, that might be a fluke.. then you look at the Super bowl winning team, the Baltimore Ravens starting roster 3 #1 draft picks on their O line also. FOUR 1st rounders (QB the other) Three #2's, two #3's, and one 5th center Matt Birk.

 

The days of the big uglies will always be in style as it is the key to winning games. Build thru the trenches!! Protect the QB!! Make the running game work!!

 

You can also cite Seattle, with 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd on their line.

Or NE, with 2 1sts and a 2nd.

 

Big fatties aren't out of fashion for good offenses.

 

Had I not thought they painted themselves into a corner and have no forced themselves into taking a QB, I'd have no problem with Warmack.

[3rdand12]

You can also cite Seattle, with 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd on their line.

Or NE, with 2 1sts and a 2nd.

 

Big fatties aren't out of fashion for good offenses.

 

Had I not thought they painted themselves into a corner and have no forced themselves into taking a QB, I'd have no problem with Warmack.

I have no problem with Warmack either. at all.

My response earlier is that Nix just wont do that. Whether he said he will or not doesn't matter. His history proves it. He prides himself on finding those guys ( guard/center ) elsewhere. Not that he doesn't value the big fellas by any means.

 

Now Marrone on the other hand might have some say in the future about how the oline is built , but not this draft. i suspect.

[Ramius]

Yea right, just tell that to the 49ers with 3 #1 draft picks on their O line, Just look at their offense actually built thu the draft. 2012 roster FIVE, 1st rounders, TWO, 3rds, one 5th, and one 7th at FB. Plus the starting QB at the end of the season was a 2nd rounder.

 

That team has got to be the favorite to win the SB this year.

 

 

Ok you say, that might be a fluke.. then you look at the Super bowl winning team, the Baltimore Ravens starting roster 3 #1 draft picks on their O line also. FOUR 1st rounders (QB the other) Three #2's, two #3's, and one 5th center Matt Birk.

 

The days of the big uglies will always be in style as it is the key to winning games. Build thru the trenches!! Protect the QB!! Make the running game work!!

 

In today's NFL you can get by with a decent OL. You simply don't need a monstrous, dominating OL to be successful, so continually blowing high picks on the OL isn't going to bring the long term success. Get a few guys that can play, get yourself a slightly above average OL, and you'll do fine, so long as you fill out the other positions. Look at what the Bills did. There are plenty of good OL that can be found in rounds 2-3 and later, often at a great value. I see no point to wasting the #8 pick on a fat guy, when you can get much more bang for your buck by getting a playmaker. That high of a pick should be spent on guys that can score, or directly stop a team from scoring.

 

Look at the Ravens. Yes they did have a lot of high picks on the OL, but it wasn't until Flacco started playing lights out that they became super bowl contenders and winners again. Also, take your Bryant McKinnie example. As good as he was, when did the Vikes finally get to the brink of the Super Bowl? When they got Brett Favre.

[CookieG]

I have no problem with Warmack either. at all.

My response earlier is that Nix just wont do that. Whether he said he will or not doesn't matter. His history proves it. He prides himself on finding those guys ( guard/center ) elsewhere. Not that he doesn't value the big fellas by any means.

 

Now Marrone on the other hand might have some say in the future about how the oline is built , but not this draft. i suspect.

 

No, I agree, it isn't going to happen. I doubt they take a guard before the 4th round, frankly. Especially after hearing him talking about the guards on the roster.

 

How much he has a say in how the line is built, outside of the draft, is up to debate. When I heard him talk about the guards on the roster, it sounded suspiciously like 2009, when Brandon dumped both OT's and then the coaches talked about how happy they were with D. Bell and Kirk Chambers.

 

I don't expect Wood to be here after next year. We'll basically be left with Cordy Glenn.

[CookieG]

In today's NFL you can get by with a decent OL. You simply don't need a monstrous, dominating OL to be successful, so continually blowing high picks on the OL isn't going to bring the long term success. Get a few guys that can play, get yourself a slightly above average OL, and you'll do fine, so long as you fill out the other positions. Look at what the Bills did. There are plenty of good OL that can be found in rounds 2-3 and later, often at a great value. I see no point to wasting the #8 pick on a fat guy, when you can get much more bang for your buck by getting a playmaker. That high of a pick should be spent on guys that can score, or directly stop a team from scoring.

 

Look at the Ravens. Yes they did have a lot of high picks on the OL, but it wasn't until Flacco started playing lights out that they became super bowl contenders and winners again. Also, take your Bryant McKinnie example. As good as he was, when did the Vikes finally get to the brink of the Super Bowl? When they got Brett Favre.

 

The Ravens are a good example. First you need both, you need a QB AND an Oline.

 

But Flacco wasn't exactly playing lights out earlier in the year, and even towards the end of the year. McKinnie was on the bench because he wasn't giving the effort, and Oher is a lot better of a RT than he is a LT. When McKinnie asked Harbaugh why he wasn't playing more, Harbaugh said "practice better". And he did. And then moved to the starting line up in Mid December.

 

Oher moved back to the right, they moved their rookie Osemele from RT to LG..and their offense took off in the playoffs.

 

One big fattie, when he decided to play, made a huge difference in the protection they gave Flacco, and in their offense as a whole.

[Mr. WEO]

LT is not an impact position.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

"Its a good year to be a big ugly"

 

http://buffalonews.c...two-bills-drive

 

I've been spouting for months that this is the year to draft an O lineman with that #8 pick and not the year to draft a QB. No QB is rated / graded better then a top 15 pick by most scouts and all of them need further development.

 

There are 4 top OT's in this years draft. 3 LT's and one RT that should go in the top 15. There are two OG's that should go in the top 15, and one in the top 10.

 

Fans claiming the Bills should trade back to get more picks. I've seen what Nix drafts in the later rounds, and would rather he take a shot at drafting an "impact" starter with that #8 then to lose out on what could be an all pro player to protect that future "franchise" QB.

 

In my view two of the biggest reasons for so much QB failure since the mid 90's is the fact that the Bills haven't spent a top 10 first round pick on a QB, AND haven't built that O line up like it was for Jim Kelly.

 

LT, Will Wolford*- LG, Jim Richter*, C Kent Hull*, RG John H Davis, RT, Howard Ballard

 

Let me repeat, this is NOT the year to draft that 'franchise" elite QB with the #8 pick, Simply because none of them grade out to be that good. Nobody in this draft is an Andrew Luck / RG3 or even a Matthew Stafford / Sam Bradford.

 

This is another year like 2010 with no Sam Bradford! Only Tim Tebow was taken behind Bradford in the first round, and Jimmy Clausen was the 3rd QB draft in the 2nd round. Say, BTW, how did that work out for the Panthers?

 

http://aol.sportingn...y-have-nfl-game

 

The bad thing is, the Buffalo Bills haven't brought in any O linemen to Buffalo for interviews AFAIK.

 

 

 

FYI, Bill Polian recently stated he thinks Oklahoma’s Landry Jones is the best QB in this years draft class.

 

“I don’t think anybody in this group is going to be able to step in right away and lead the team, but if you ask me, who’s the guy who’s most ready, and who’s the guy who’s had the most winning experience, it would be Landry Jones,” Polian said.

 

http://profootballta...b-in-the-draft/

 

 

 

Is Buddy Nix really the man to find that elusive elite franchise QB for the Buffalo Bills? Its almost as elusive as that proverbial baby that Nix along with Gailey & Co never found. This is the man who thinks this years class has 2 or 3 "franchise" QB's, even if the rest of the world disagrees. I know I don't agree.

 

http://www.cbssports...013-draft-class

 

 

 

 

Edit: BTW, The Buffalo Bills worked out Landry Jones Mar 25th

 

 

 

Buddy complete stement as i read it, was there are two QBs "franchise" types in this draft, but the trick is finding them. In other words he's thinking in terms of averages.

 

Edited April 20, 2013 by over 20 years of fanhood

[3rdand12]

LT is not an impact position.

But is has higher value than any other postion on the line and is rewarded as such

 

 

Cookie, if Bills dont keep Wood i hope it's ONLY because he is injury prone and not simply a cost savings.

But i can see him being gone either way.

I hope we dont become the team that never pays the second contract to good players drafted to Bills oline.

[thewildrabbit]

In today's NFL you can get by with a decent OL. You simply don't need a monstrous, dominating OL to be successful, so continually blowing high picks on the OL isn't going to bring the long term success. Get a few guys that can play, get yourself a slightly above average OL, and you'll do fine, so long as you fill out the other positions. Look at what the Bills did. There are plenty of good OL that can be found in rounds 2-3 and later, often at a great value. I see no point to wasting the #8 pick on a fat guy, when you can get much more bang for your buck by getting a playmaker. That high of a pick should be spent on guys that can score, or directly stop a team from scoring.

 

Look at the Ravens. Yes they did have a lot of high picks on the OL, but it wasn't until Flacco started playing lights out that they became super bowl contenders and winners again. Also, take your Bryant McKinnie example. As good as he was, when did the Vikes finally get to the brink of the Super Bowl? When they got Brett Favre.

Look over the history of the Buffalo Bills, they were good when they had a very good O line!

 

The years they were AFL Champions 64-65. LT Stew Barber- LG Billy Shaw- C Dave Behrman ,RG Al Bemiller- Dick Hudson... OM freakin G, no wonder QB Jack Kemp / Cookie Gilchrist played so brilliantly. Look at those names, every one in the pro bowl and some are on the Bills wall of fame.

 

Made the playoffs in 1974 with 2 all pro guards in Reggie McKenzie & Joe Delamielleure a 2nd round pick and a 1st round pick

 

1980 playoffs, LT Ken Jones, LG Reggie McKenzie, C Will Grant, RG Conrad Dobler, RT Joe Devlin. In 1980 HC Chuck Knox drafted a GUARD with the first pick. That guard went on to play 16 years in the NFL, 14 for Buffalo, and made the pro bowl. He locked down that LG spot the entire reign of those fabulous 90's Buffalo Bills. That line was a big reason why Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Marv Levy, are all in the Hall of Fame IMHO.

 

1990 Wolford*, Ritcher*, Hull*, Davis, Ballard. LT Willford a first round pick, LG Ritcher a first round pick and C Hull from the USFL. NFN, but the Bills could have been even better back then had they upgraded RT & RG positions. Perhaps even winning a super bowl. I can recall some of those runs to the SB that the O line was sooo banged up in the playoffs they had TE Pete Metzelaars lining up at tackle.

 

1998 playoffs LT John Fina, LG Ruben Brown (9 time pro bowler) both first draft round picks. Jeez, the bills made the playoffs with Doug Flutie at QB and Johathan Linton at RB (who?) in 1999.

 

 

It just stands to reason when the Bills invest top draft choices in the O line they suddenly give whatever QB they have better protection, and more time to throw. The running game gets better, and the team makes the playoffs. The better O line they had, the better they did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, both Jim Ritcher and Will Wolford should be on that wall of fame JMO.

 

Buddy complete stement as i read it, was there are two QBs "franchise" types in this draft, but the trick is finding them. In other words he's thinking in terms of averages.

I quote,

 

"The general consensus among most NFL Draft analysts is that the 2013 quarterback class is a little on the weak side. But don't tell that to Bills general manager Buddy Nix. He believes that the class could produce two or three franchise quarterbacks."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22084506/bills-gm-buddy-nix-two-or-three-franchise-qbs-in-2013-draft-class

 

click the link and read it.

[Ramius]

Look over the history of the Buffalo Bills, they were good when they had a very good O line!

 

The years they were AFL Champions 64-65. LT Stew Barber- LG Billy Shaw- C Dave Behrman ,RG Al Bemiller- Dick Hudson... OM freakin G, no wonder QB Jack Kemp / Cookie Gilchrist played so brilliantly. Look at those names, every one in the pro bowl and some are on the Bills wall of fame.

 

Made the playoffs in 1974 with 2 all pro guards in Reggie McKenzie & Joe Delamielleure a 2nd round pick and a 1st round pick

 

1980 playoffs, LT Ken Jones, LG Reggie McKenzie, C Will Grant, RG Conrad Dobler, RT Joe Devlin. In 1980 HC Chuck Knox drafted a GUARD with the first pick. That guard went on to play 16 years in the NFL, 14 for Buffalo, and made the pro bowl. He locked down that LG spot the entire reign of those fabulous 90's Buffalo Bills. That line was a big reason why Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Marv Levy, are all in the Hall of Fame IMHO.

 

1990 Wolford*, Ritcher*, Hull*, Davis, Ballard. LT Willford a first round pick, LG Ritcher a first round pick and C Hull from the USFL. NFN, but the Bills could have been even better back then had they upgraded RT & RG positions. Perhaps even winning a super bowl. I can recall some of those runs to the SB that the O line was sooo banged up in the playoffs they had TE Pete Metzelaars lining up at tackle.

 

1998 playoffs LT John Fina, LG Ruben Brown (9 time pro bowler) both first draft round picks. Jeez, the bills made the playoffs with Doug Flutie at QB and Johathan Linton at RB (who?) in 1999.

 

 

It just stands to reason when the Bills invest top draft choices in the O line they suddenly give whatever QB they have better protection, and more time to throw. The running game gets better, and the team makes the playoffs. The better O line they had, the better they did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, both Jim Ritcher and Will Wolford should be on that wall of fame JMO.

 

I quote,

 

"The general consensus among most NFL Draft analysts is that the 2013 quarterback class is a little on the weak side. But don't tell that to Bills general manager Buddy Nix. He believes that the class could produce two or three franchise quarterbacks."

 

http://www.cbssports...013-draft-class

 

click the link and read it.

 

This is not the 1960's, or the 1980's, or even the 1990's. In today's NFL, fat guys simply aren't worth the high draft pick, because they don't have a very big impact on the game. No, you can't have a garbage OL, you need a decent one. But going from a decent OL, one say ranked 14-16 in the league, to an OL ranked in the top 5, is simply not going to have a significant impact on the number of wins your team has. Its not worth the investment, because there will be limited return on the amount of wins your team improves by.

 

You can get a decent OL in the mid to late rounds. Wasting the #8 on a fat guy will have a very limited impact on the number of wins posted by the Bills. What WILL impact the number of wins is taking a playmaker or someone who passes/catches passes/stops the pass.

[Mr. WEO]

So if we draft LT at 8 does that mean that Glenn isn't an LT after all?

 

Anyway, the Ravens had one of the best LTs ever for years, but his impact was minimal (5 winning seasonsin 12 years). After Ogden retired, Baltimore got a lot better the minute they drafted Flacco (and Rice--in the same draft), appearing in the playoffs every year. They've won a playoff game every year with Flacco and Rice. 9-4 overall.

 

 

SF became a SB contender because of a dominant defense, great HC and a mobile, strong armed QB who doesn't rely much on the guy protecting his blind side.

[Ramius]

So if we draft LT at 8 does that mean that Glenn isn't an LT after all?

 

Anyway, the Ravens had one of the best LTs ever for years, but his impact was minimal (5 winning seasonsin 12 years). After Ogden retired, Baltimore got a lot better the minute they drafted Flacco (and Rice--in the same draft), appearing in the playoffs every year. They've won a playoff game every year with Flacco and Rice. 9-4 overall.

 

 

SF became a SB contender because of a dominant defense, great HC and a mobile, strong armed QB who doesn't rely much on the guy protecting his blind side.

 

To add on to this, how did the Rams fare with Orlando Pace, one of the best LTs ever? They didn't amount to anything until they added Warner and Marshall Faulk. Those 2 drove the Rams to 2 super bowls, not Pace.

[Mr. WEO]

To add on to this, how did the Rams fare with Orlando Pace, one of the best LTs ever? They didn't amount to anything until they added Warner and Marshall Faulk. Those 2 drove the Rams to 2 super bowls, not Pace.

 

I agree and I posted that on another thread about LTs recently. These are the 2 best LTs ever and their impact was just not monumental or even obvious. Bad teams have to take a chance on an impact position in the top 10.

[KOKBILLS]

To add on to this, how did the Rams fare with Orlando Pace, one of the best LTs ever? They didn't amount to anything until they added Warner and Marshall Faulk. Those 2 drove the Rams to 2 super bowls, not Pace.

 

Agreed...

 

How has Joe Thomas (6 time Pro Bowler, 3 time 1st Team All Pro, 2 time 2nd Team All Pro) done? Greatly impacted all that winning in Cleveland right?...

 

Without a top QB the Bills will continue to be nothing...Period...End of story...

Edited April 20, 2013 by KOKBILLS

[Mr. WEO]

Agreed...

 

How has Joe Thomas (6 time Pro Bowler, 3 time 1st Team All Pro, 2 time 2nd Team All Pro) done? Greatly impacted all that winning in Cleveland right?...

 

Without a top QB the Bills will continue to be nothing...Period...End of story...

 

Thomas has done nothing for the Browns. A monumentally bad mistake. They could have taken A. Peterson, who led the Vkings to the playoffs in the absence of a top QB, to the playoffs.

 

Note Arizona made the same mistake with Levi Brown that year. How's that O-line now in AZ?

[thewildrabbit]

Lane Johnson baby! (wont be upset with Austin or Patterson either)

 

Currently the Buffalo Bills have one O line stud at center in Eric Wood. But the problem is the man can't stay healthy the entire season and when he goes down, the team goes with him.

 

They have a semi stud at LT in Cordy Glenn. A player who would be even better at RT, and could be an all pro at guard. This is one massive man, 6'5'' 345 Lbs. Glenn's flaws at LT against speed rushers will be seen this season with Kolb, Jackson or some rookie at QB. At 345 his feet just aren't quick enough, no need to argue this point as you will see this season.

 

 

The Bills could use upgrades at RT, RG and would benefit greatly by taking one of those top 3 LT's and moving Glenn to RT. Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher, Lane Johnson. or even drafting RT DJ Fluker, and keeping Glenn at LT.

 

They would better by drafting either OG Chance Warmack / Jonathan Cooper if all the LT's are gone by the 8th pick, and they probably will be.

 

 

 

This is the year for O linemen, and not more Jimmy Clausen's!! Remember all the hype for that bum?

 

"With all due respect to Oklahoma's Sam Bradford, the Fighting Irish's Jimmy Clausen has established himself as the best pocket passer in this draft."

 

http://www.fftoolbox...rospect_id=2387

 

"Summary: Jimmy Clausen is a franchise quarterback. He has carried the spotlight since he was a teenager and has surpassed the hype."

 

http://walterfootbal...010jclausen.php

 

SI Don Banks had him going #4 to the Redskins

 

http://sportsillustr...ft.1/index.html

Edited April 20, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[thewildrabbit]

This is not the 1960's, or the 1980's, or even the 1990's. In today's NFL, fat guys simply aren't worth the high draft pick, because they don't have a very big impact on the game. No, you can't have a garbage OL, you need a decent one. But going from a decent OL, one say ranked 14-16 in the league, to an OL ranked in the top 5, is simply not going to have a significant impact on the number of wins your team has. Its not worth the investment, because there will be limited return on the amount of wins your team improves by.

 

You can get a decent OL in the mid to late rounds. Wasting the #8 on a fat guy will have a very limited impact on the number of wins posted by the Bills. What WILL impact the number of wins is taking a playmaker or someone who passes/catches passes/stops the pass.

Jeez, why do I waste my time with posts if you guys refuse to read them.

 

Yea right, just tell that to the 49ers with 3 #1 draft picks on their O line, Just look at their offense actually built thu the draft. 2012 roster FIVE, 1st rounders, TWO, 3rds, one 5th, and one 7th at FB. Plus the starting QB at the end of the season was a 2nd rounder.

 

That team has got to be the favorite to win the SB this year.

 

 

Ok you say, that might be a fluke.. then you look at the Super bowl winning team, the Baltimore Ravens starting roster 3 #1 draft picks on their O line also. FOUR 1st rounders (QB the other) Three #2's, two #3's, and one 5th center Matt Birk.

 

The days of the big uglies will always be in style as it is the key to winning games. Build thru the trenches!! Protect the QB!! Make the running game work!!

 

The Bills also had an all pro player at LT in Jason Peters, and still stunk it up. All this proves is one top O lineman is not enough, and never will be.

 

But, one top LT is a start of building a dominate O line like the RAVENS, like the NINERS.

 

The Buffalo Bills scouting dept sucks from what I have seen over the last 13 years and is a big reason why the team hasn't made the playoffs. Bills GM / scouts don't have evaluating acumen to find good players in the later rounds. Just look at the last 3 drafts for proof of that. The ONLY way I see this team ever getting better is to invest top picks in that line until they can give whatever QB they eventually choose to start Tom Brady like time in the pocket.

 

If they do that this year, and sign some top FA O lineman next year they might stand a chance of developing a rookie properly. Instead of ending up with a shell shocked JP Losman / Trent Edwards.