JohnC Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I recognized Jones wasn't elite so got off the bandwagon and Tannehill is going to be awesome. Can you explain your reasoning for your advocacy of trading Mario Williams for Skelton? That has me stumped! I'm sure you are aware that Skelton was released by the Cardinals. The idea of trading our best pass rusher for this project qb is beyond being ludicrous, it was very odd. What it comes down to is your judgment lacks judgment.
BillsFan17 Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I don't think it helps things that Murphy last night was saying on his radio show that he doesn't think the Bills are very high on Barkley.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Can you explain your reasoning for your advocacy of trading Mario Williams for Skelton? That has me stumped! I'm sure you are aware that Skelton was released by the Cardinals. The idea of trading our best pass rusher for this project qb is beyond being ludicrous, it was very odd. My reasoning was based on our desperate need for a QB, Skeltons good play the previous season and Marios horrendous play at the beginning of the year. (keep in mind that was when I started the thread and it made sense at the time) I don't think it helps things that Murphy last night was saying on his radio show that he doesn't think the Bills are very high on Barkley. YES! Praise the Lord. I think people want a QB so bad they will take any Schmo that comes along, Barkley just doesn't have it, sorry wish he did. I agree!!!! EJ Manuel should be the QB we pick after trading back later in the first round! GET MORE PICKS!!!!!!!!!!! Don't like him either, Don't like any of em
Billshank Redemption Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Really would be pretty pissed if this was how it shook down, especially since I dont want barkley and woods although I like him is a slot receiver and they want to move stevie to the slot.
#34fan Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Excellent analysis & reasoning my man. Well done. As many know on this board I have been on the Barkley bandwagon for awhile now. Just don't understand the hatred that posters have for this guy. 4 year starter, incredable numbers, 12K passing yards, 140 tds against only 60 some ints, leader, intangibles are off the charts. I said this before & got laughed at but I think this kid has D Brees written all over him. No he is not going to throw a football from his knees thru the goal posts from the the 50 yard line like such great QBs like Russell & Boller, but this guy will get it done when it counts most on Sundays. I do worry about the culture shock coming from So Cal to B-lo but this kid could handle it. Come on Buddy take a chance on Barkley. You won't be sorry. I dunno about HATRED, but I don't like the kid as our future QB. -Barkley simply cannot throw an accurate deep ball. He moves well in the pocket, but is otherwise immobile.. He doesn't always feel pressure coming, and holds onto the ball too long... He may also have a lingering shoulder injury from the last college season... It's obvious to me that we don't have the tools in place to get the most out of a kid as limited as Barkley... it's sounds like a fail from the start. As sketchy as we've been for the past decade, we can't afford to put a QB with such glaring issues under center. -It' like an invitation for opposing defenses to tee off on the guy. Barkley is neither deep-threat, nor running threat. Once you take away his intermediate game we'll be right back where we ended with Fitz, NOT BEING ABLE TO MOVE THE CHAINS, with three-and-outs all f___ing day! I'm saying let's not even go down that f___ed-up road..... Draft a more versatile option at QB! EJ Manuel's game is FAR from complete, but with his athleticism, and arm strength, he can at least give opposing defenders something to respect. -And to me, that's a huge part of competing at the pro level. Even though Kevin Kolb is largely immobile himself, I support his signing because of the invaluable NFL experience he posesses. Kolb has not excelled, but at least he's had the chance to LEARN from pro mistakes. I'd take his knowledge of pro football over some lame, hyped-up, rookie statue any day. Edited April 20, 2013 by #34fan
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I dunno about HATRED, but I don't like the kid as our future QB. -Barkley simply cannot throw an accurate deep ball. He moves well in the pocket, but is otherwise immobile.. He doesn't always feel pressure coming, and holds onto the ball too long... Accuracy on his deep ball is one of his absolute strengths and I don't like him as our pick. He's probably the best in the draft in that respect, IMO. He doesn't have a strong arm but he lays it in there nicely and hits guys deep in stride all the time. He just can't throw it very hard or very far. And a lot of times his WRs were wide open deep so he doesn't get credit for that.
jaybee Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Deep balls, while pretty on television are not very important. They are probably 10% tops of an offense. The kid has a strong enough arm to keep a defense honest. Thats all that really matters. Arm strength is over-rated. Way over-rated. Any of these QB's have a strong enough arm to keep a defense honest, especially with accuracy....which Barkley is quite accurate up to 35 yards and even beyond. So is Kevin Kolb. I'm not worried at all about QB. We'll be fine. I am however worried about the WR and TE positions. Sumptin gotta happen there. Defensively....we're good. We got Pettine. We'll be in the 30%+ percentile. Fellas we are going to be a good football team this year. jb
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Deep balls, while pretty on television are not very important. They are probably 10% tops of an offense. The kid has a strong enough arm to keep a defense honest. Thats all that really matters. Arm strength is over-rated. Way over-rated. Any of these QB's have a strong enough arm to keep a defense honest, especially with accuracy....which Barkley is quite accurate up to 35 yards and even beyond. I'm not sure about that. To me, there are four categories of arm strength in the NFL. A cannon, a strong arm, an arm that can make all the throws, and a rag arm. A rag arm will kill you, even though you can throw it 50 yards down the field. Every QB in the league can do that. Fitz had a "can make all the throws arm". Barkley, to me, has a rag arm, like Colt McCoy, Chad Pennington, Kelly Holcomb, etc. A lot of people think that, too. There are others, guys who I respect like Jaworski, who think Barkley's is a little better than rag arm and falls in the "Can make all the throws" category. I think he falls just short of that, and can't throw the deep out or the 30 yarder across the middle with any velocity which can kill you unless the guy is wide open.
jaybee Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure about that. To me, there are four categories of arm strength in the NFL. A cannon, a strong arm, an arm that can make all the throws, and a rag arm. A rag arm will kill you, even though you can throw it 50 yards down the field. Every QB in the league can do that. Fitz had a "can make all the throws arm". Barkley, to me, has a rag arm, like Colt McCoy, Chad Pennington, Kelly Holcomb, etc. A lot of people think that, too. There are others, guys who I respect like Jaworski, who think Barkley's is a little better than rag arm and falls in the "Can make all the throws" category. I think he falls just short of that, and can't throw the deep out or the 30 yarder across the middle with any velocity which can kill you unless the guy is wide open. ....and you may well be correct in that assessment. Frankly I am totally confused on who we should take at QB to be quite honest. I guess I look at it this way. I would rather have a kid that has leadership skills, and the CPU speed to read and react to defensive schemes than a kid who can throw it out of the stadium and not adequately read the defensive schemes FAST. It almost seems like a crap-shoot this year at the QB position. I just hope Marrone scores on his assessment. How cool would it be to have a rookie QB shock us all this year.....or maybe next. Its hard to know. I have no choice but to hope the powers to be get it right on draft day. Lets hope so ey ? EDIT: Of course we are going to need to upgrade the talent for our future signal caller...Be it Kolb or whomever. The backfield is quite happy. TE...not sure. WR......the signal caller is gonna need some help here I'm thinking. Rock on. jb Edited April 20, 2013 by jaybee
#34fan Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Accuracy on his deep ball is one of his absolute strengths ... Look, I've questioned Barkley's arm since the 2011-12 season, but to hear Ron Jaworski and others on NFL 32 do it, only solidified my opinion. Here's a clip of some other familiar faces questioning his arm. http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=9134738 Trust me, I'm not alone. Edited April 20, 2013 by #34fan
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Throwing a good deep ball doesn't require a lot of arm strength. Barkley can throw the ball 55+ yards in the air and is accurate deep. He still has comparatively poor arm strength.
#34fan Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 He just can't throw it very hard or very far. And a lot of times his WRs were wide open deep so he doesn't get credit for that. And how is this supposed to make us more competitive in the AFCE? Barkley has "CAREER BACKUP" written all over him. As well as "DO NOT TOUCH IN ROUND ONE".
Donald Duck Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 I'm not sure about that. To me, there are four categories of arm strength in the NFL. A cannon, a strong arm, an arm that can make all the throws, and a rag arm. A rag arm will kill you, even though you can throw it 50 yards down the field. Every QB in the league can do that. Fitz had a "can make all the throws arm". Barkley, to me, has a rag arm, like Colt McCoy, Chad Pennington, Kelly Holcomb, etc. A lot of people think that, too. There are others, guys who I respect like Jaworski, who think Barkley's is a little better than rag arm and falls in the "Can make all the throws" category. I think he falls just short of that, and can't throw the deep out or the 30 yarder across the middle with any velocity which can kill you unless the guy is wide open. Buffalo is a tough place to play and we need QB's with strong arms/and or cannons in my opinion
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 And how is this supposed to make us more competitive in the AFCE? Barkley has "CAREER BACKUP" written all over him. As well as "DO NOT TOUCH IN ROUND ONE". I don't think he can. I don't like Barkley as a draft pick at all. Look, I've questioned Barkley's arm since the 2011-12 season, but to hear Ron Jaworski and others on NFL 32 do it, only solidified my opinion. Here's a clip of some other familiar faces questioning his arm. http://espn.go.com/v...clip?id=9134738 Trust me, I'm not alone. You're confusing two different things. I think he has a rag arm and I don't want him. A lot of draftniks think he has a rag arm. Jaworski actually thinks he has a better arm than most. That is all about arm strength though and not anything about accuracy or touch on deep balls. One of the things Barkley does great is throw a nice deep ball with accuracy. It just doesnt go far or get there quick. But he hits guys in stride all the time. He does that great. When people question his arm, like in the clip you linked, they are talking about arm strength.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Throwing a good deep ball doesn't require a lot of arm strength. Barkley can throw the ball 55+ yards in the air and is accurate deep. He still has comparatively poor arm strength. The discussion becomes interesting for me here as you and Kelly point out the odd paradox of a guy who can throw accurate deep balls but who lacks zip on his intermediate throws. I watched every game Barkley played in 2011 and he had numerous on the money throws between 50 and 60 yards replete with good, proper trajectory. If you said that about a QB, it would be treated as a given that that same QB could zip intermediate range passes downfield. That assumption would be wrong. Barkley can throw the ball 55-60 yards downfield on occasion but mysteriously he doesn't have a fastball. In other words he can throw it far enough but he can't throw it hard enough. From a physics standpoint I'm not really sure how this can be explained and yet it's one of the things that jumps off the video when you watch Barkley.
#34fan Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) You're confusing two different things. I think he has a rag arm and I don't want him. A lot of draftniks think he has a rag arm. Jaworski actually thinks he has a better arm than most. That is all about arm strength though and not anything about accuracy or touch on deep balls. One of the things Barkley does great is throw a nice deep ball with accuracy. It just doesnt go far or get there quick. But he hits guys in stride all the time. He does that great. When people question his arm, like in the clip you linked, they are talking about arm strength. Wow, Jaworski was on ESPN the other day explaining why Barkley wasn't in his top 5. He has Barkley at #8 I think. One of the reasons why was because of the way his passes "flutter" on deep throws. Even if his (very good) recievers caught some of those at the college level, You have to realize that in the pro's, those same passes are INT's or bat-downs. Either way, I'm glad we can at least agree that his arm is suspect. Edited April 20, 2013 by #34fan
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 Wow, Jaworski was on ESPN the other day explaining why Barkley wasn't in his top 5. He has Barkley at #8 I think. One of the reasons why was because of the way his passes "flutter" on deep throws. Even if his (very good) recievers caught some of those at the college level, You have to realize that in the pro's, those same passes are INT's or bat-downs. Either way, I'm glad we can at least agree that his arm is suspect. Yeah, Jaws doesn't think he's a good QB, but he thinks he has a strong enough arm. I don't want him.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 20, 2013 Posted April 20, 2013 The discussion becomes interesting for me here as you and Kelly point out the odd paradox of a guy who can throw accurate deep balls but who lacks zip on his intermediate throws. Paradox is the right word. It's easy to think of arm strength and nine routes as directly correlated because the ball travels further on the bomb than it does on any other route. But it takes another brand of mustard to put it on a line at 25 yards than it does to rainbow the ball over the top. In the end he does a lot of things well, but unless his arm strength improves I don't think he has a chance to be an elite quarterback. He could be a good starter, but with his arm as it is now he won't be the next Brady, Manning, Rodgers. And I think in the 1st round you want your guy to at least have a chance to be the best. He makes sense on day 2 for a team with the right system, but in round 1 there are options with more upside.
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