Fan in Chicago Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Unless, he pimps the lot lizards! Same here... Drive into any Pilot Flying J's and experience a place that feels nothing like a multi-billion dollar business While it may not feel like a multi-billion dollar business, that is exactly what it is (dated information but still valid): "Knoxville's Pilot Flying J now has 496 outlets -- combination gas stations and retail stores -- that produced about $30 billion in sales in 2011" http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/22/smallbusiness/flying-pilot-j-haslam.fortune/index.html I don't have a link but a few years back, the refining and petrochemical giant from India, Reliance Industries, had visited with Flying J to learn how they run the truck stop business. They took a non-glamorous business and through a combination of innovation and services, made a massive business out of serving truck drivers. On a personal note, several years back, I did a small project for the Flying J refinery in Salt Lake City and the employees were some of the nicest bunch I have encountered. None of this commenting on their potential trouble with the law, but they are not a trivial outfit and indeed have some things to be admired for.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 You know when I heard how he made his fortune, it struck me as odd that a person could make billions from truck stops. I guess he'd be too smart to commit tax evasion so maybe money laundering? The money spent at trucks stops every day is staggering. Those trucks are each spending $500-$1,000 per stop on fuel and any number of other(more profitable) goods and services. And they basically repeat it every day. That's how the billions roll up.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 While it may not feel like a multi-billion dollar business, that is exactly what it is (dated information but still valid): "Knoxville's Pilot Flying J now has 496 outlets -- combination gas stations and retail stores -- that produced about $30 billion in sales in 2011" http://money.cnn.com...tune/index.html I don't have a link but a few years back, the refining and petrochemical giant from India, Reliance Industries, had visited with Flying J to learn how they run the truck stop business. They took a non-glamorous business and through a combination of innovation and services, made a massive business out of serving truck drivers. On a personal note, several years back, I did a small project for the Flying J refinery in Salt Lake City and the employees were some of the nicest bunch I have encountered. None of this commenting on their potential trouble with the law, but they are not a trivial outfit and indeed have some things to be admired for. The money spent at trucks stops every day is staggering. Those trucks are each spending $500-$1,000 per stop on fuel and any number of other(more profitable) goods and services. And they basically repeat it every day. That's how the billions roll up. Before I'd read about Haslam I'd never heard of the business. I guess I always assumed that the market was more fragmented. It makes sense the more I hear about it.
mitchmurraydowntown Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Government targeting big money guys, sounds like Russia.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Theories anyone? I got nothin' Just a wild-a$$ guess, but since you're inviting them . . . (a) Some sort of price-fixing or antitrust investigation? Do they have enough locations and market power to (1) price diesel fuel for big rigs below cost to force smaller competitors out of business, and then (2) charge monopoly prices after they "own" the market? Not saying they've done that, but any business that controls a large percentage of a given market (for any product) has the potential to illegally monopolize their market. Not sure why that would involve IRS agents, though, unless they were keeping 2 sets of books to somehow try to hide their true pricing practices. (b) for gasoline, part of the cost we all pay at the pump is state and federal taxes - - my guess (it's just a guess) is that it's the same for diesel fuel. So maybe they falsely reported the amount of federal fuel tax that they are required to pay the government, and kept some for themselves? Both are just wild guesses.
KollegeStudnet Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 While it may not feel like a multi-billion dollar business, that is exactly what it is (dated information but still valid): "Knoxville's Pilot Flying J now has 496 outlets -- combination gas stations and retail stores -- that produced about $30 billion in sales in 2011" http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/22/smallbusiness/flying-pilot-j-haslam.fortune/index.html I don't have a link but a few years back, the refining and petrochemical giant from India, Reliance Industries, had visited with Flying J to learn how they run the truck stop business. They took a non-glamorous business and through a combination of innovation and services, made a massive business out of serving truck drivers. On a personal note, several years back, I did a small project for the Flying J refinery in Salt Lake City and the employees were some of the nicest bunch I have encountered. None of this commenting on their potential trouble with the law, but they are not a trivial outfit and indeed have some things to be admired for. I was just at the central Utah location on my way to Moab...it's not bad. What I'm trying to say is, when walking around you don't feel as if its a billion dollar business...but, it is.
The Poojer Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Bernie Fine would disagree... If the Feds are there someone is going to prison. Shortly after college I had the opportunity to go on some raids with Federal Marshals. These guys don't show up on shoddy info and federal prosecutors rarely lose.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 That means...they're already f'd. If the FBI shows up you are not innocent. So much for the "presumption of innocence" fundamental to the American legal system and the right to a fair trial The federal government has a 99% conviction rate (97% plea bargains and 2/3 of the cases that go to trial). Read this for some valid points about whether that figure is a Good Thing for fundamental legal concepts such as the right to a fair trial, competent legal defense, etc.
BillsWatch Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 So much for the "presumption of innocence" fundamental to the American legal system and the right to a fair trial The federal government has a 99% conviction rate (97% plea bargains and 2/3 of the cases that go to trial). So what you are saying is federal government other than IRS is very weak at attempts to prosecute people unless they have overwhelming evidence they will win rather letting facts fall as they might with juries. Not necessarily a good thing for those who are good at hiding evidence may be out of spotlight for a long time.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 So what you are saying is federal government other than IRS is very weak at attempts to prosecute people unless they have overwhelming evidence they will win rather letting facts fall as they might with juries. Not necessarily a good thing for those who are good at hiding evidence may be out of spotlight for a long time. I don't think that's what I'm saying at all. I'm not quite sure, though, since I'm having trouble parsing what you wrote. The contention I was responding to is that the Federal government doesn't go after someone unless they're really guilty. A high conviction rate (99%) might be held to support this contention - until you look under the hood and see it is 97% plea bargain. People plea bargain for many reasons besides guilt: 1) lack of resources to fund a competent defense - especially true of federal cases with the immense clout and $$ of the federal system behind the prosecution 2) desire to accept a lesser penalty and move on with life, rather than spend immense time and effort on a court case that could result in a higher penalty (see 1) 3) lack of faith in the jury system Doesn't mean they're guilty There's also the fact that many federal statutes are quite broad - who was it who said "show me the man and I'll show you the crime"?
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Just a wild-a$$ guess, but since you're inviting them . . . (a) Some sort of price-fixing or antitrust investigation? Do they have enough locations and market power to (1) price diesel fuel for big rigs below cost to force smaller competitors out of business, and then (2) charge monopoly prices after they "own" the market? Not saying they've done that , but any business that controls a large percentage of a given market (for any product) has the potential to illegally monopolize their market. . . . . I should have called it "predatory pricing" (when you sell a product below cost to drive a smaller competitor out of business) rather than "price-fixing" (which is something different). http://www.cleveland...titors_que.html CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The rebates that Jimmy Haslam says are at the heart of a federal criminal investigation into his company have made it impossible for smaller, independent truck stops to compete against Haslam's massive Pilot Flying J, a trucking industry official says. Burt Newman, the vice president of Professional Transportation Partners, said rebates are a standard practice in the trucking industry. What makes Haslam's company, Pilot Flying J, different is that the company's rebates are so ridiculously better than other competitors that few can put up a fight, Newman said. "They offer rebates that are outrageous and impossible to compete against,'' Newman said. The company can offer such rebates because they have about 600 truck stops/travel centers across the country. Not sure if the net effect of a "ridiculously" large rebate would be selling below cost, but it seems possible. In any event, it sounds like one of Flying J's competitors is speculating that the investigation may involve anti-competitive business practices by Flying J. Maybe that's just wishful thinking by the competitor - - we'll see. Edited April 18, 2013 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead
Saint Doug Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 The contention I was responding to is that the Federal government doesn't go after someone unless they're really guilty. I would say the Federal Government doesn't charge someone with a crime unless they have overwhelming evidence and are assured of guilt. Look at Richard Jewel. He was harassed to no end by the FBI, but at the end of the day was never charged with the Olympics bombing. Still destroyed his life.
poo Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Theories anyone? I got nothin' Said something about rebates in the origina post. Probably Flying J giving a discount to certain trucking companies that use Flying J and leaving others out. That done do be illegal and un-american, just ask the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts. Edited April 18, 2013 by poo
KollegeStudnet Posted April 19, 2013 Author Posted April 19, 2013 Update: Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's travel center company, Pilot Flying J, has engaged in fraud for 'many years', FBI says. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/04/cleveland_browns_owner_jimmy_h_1.html
Malazan Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 If the Feds are there someone is going to prison. Shortly after college I had the opportunity to go on some raids with Federal Marshals. These guys don't show up on shoddy info and federal prosecutors rarely lose. They also rarely get the man at the top and settle for a patsy.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Update: Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's travel center company, Pilot Flying J, has engaged in fraud for 'many years', FBI says. http://www.cleveland..._jimmy_h_1.html On the surface, that's pretty incriminating I'd say.
KollegeStudnet Posted April 19, 2013 Author Posted April 19, 2013 On the surface, that's pretty incriminating I'd say. I know we have our longest playoff victim story, but the Browns are in a whole other area.
BillnutinHouston Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 On the surface, that's pretty incriminating I'd say. Ouch. I bet 'ol Jimmy's sweating right about now.
KollegeStudnet Posted April 19, 2013 Author Posted April 19, 2013 NFL says it has no plans to ask Jimmy Haslam to step down as Cleveland Browns owner during investigation. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/04/nfl_jimmy_haslam_step_down_inv.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 This is a really good recap of the whole thing. Not sure how even a billionaire can squirm his way out of this one: http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/4/19/4241314/jimmy-haslam-the-fbi-the-158-pages-that-will-cost-him-the-browns
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