The new tone at OBD: What they're saying

[Quester74]

..and whether that scheme works given the circumstances.

 

Agreed.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Just so we can back track the !@#$ up here for a second:

 

May be I didn't say this clearly enough, but what motivated me to start this topic in the first place was the soft-damning of the former regime that was coming out through players' endorsement for the current guys.

 

I only bring this back up because--even as the thread's purpose--it hasn't got much discussion.

 

Yeah, the team had lost confidence in Gailey (and especially Wannstedt) last season. They played like it and as they say, "the tape don't lie."

 

Edit: A big part of that is not hitting the ground running. Gailey came here and tried to resurrect Trent Edwards as his first order of business. (In fact, that may have been THE reason he was hired in the first place.) That was a large part of getting off to an 0-8 start. Some people at the time dismissed it, claiming Gailey was methodical and even "decisive". That the first year was just an evaluation year and the plan would come together in the second year. But this just gets back to my earlier post: look at the plan and how its executed, not if they promise Nirvana in the future.

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, the team had lost confidence in Gailey (and especially Wannstedt) last season. They played like it and as they say, "the tape don't lie."

 

Edit: A big part of that is not hitting the ground running. Gailey came here and tried to resurrect Trent Edwards as his first order of business. (In fact, that may have been THE reason he was hired in the first place.) That was a large part of getting off to an 0-8 start. Some people at the time dismissed it, claiming Gailey was methodical and even "decisive". That the first year was just an evaluation year and the plan would come together in the second year. But this just gets back to my earlier post: look at the plan and how its executed, not if they promise Nirvana in the future.

 

And back to the OP--it never seemed like Gailey was looking to hit the ground running.

And by all accounts, Marrone and crew already have.

[Sisyphean Bills]

And back to the OP--it never seemed like Gailey was looking to hit the ground running.

And by all accounts, Marrone and crew already have.

Totally agree on the first point. It was a criticism I made at the time, as you may recall.

 

I'm not convinced yet on the second point. But, I do hope you are correct.

[The Big Cat]

Totally agree on the first point. It was a criticism I made at the time, as you may recall.

 

I'm not convinced yet on the second point. But, I do hope you are correct.

 

Then you remember as well as I do when Gailey would get on the microphone MID-SEASON and say things like "well, we're still working on some things" or "we're not quite ready to install some other..." it drove me !@#$ing nuts last year.

 

As per this year, OBVIOUSLY we have to wait and see. But Marrone has, at the very least, already shown an attitude that's completely contrary to what's above. Listen to his interview last week with Murph. There's no time to stop and smell the roses with Marrone...or so he says...now.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

You know, back in the days when this team actually won games consistently and made the playoffs by dominating the AFC East, I don't ever recall people chest bumming and gushing over how much cap space the team had. The talk then was about how the team might have won the Super Bowl if not for an illegal forward pass.

 

So, yes, most teams now realize that they have to deal with the cap and have sound plans on how to do so. Indeed, every team has the same cap system to deal with. However, some teams like the Patriots seem to both manage their cap and continue to win football games.

 

I stated the $16 million cap space figure not as a good thing and not as a bad thing.

 

It was given as information for an objective discussion of the offseason so far.

[vincec]

First the coaches:

 

One of the things that used to drive me nuts about Gailey was how it seemed--even 3/4 of the way through a season the team was still "learning," "improving," "installing," etc. Now, I understand that no coach will ever get on the mic, or even say to his team, boys, we've arrived, the time for improvement is over, you're just the fine way you are. That much is clear, but Gailey seemed to have a 3 year plan that was taking 8 years to execute.

 

Marrone basically said in his interview with Murph last week that his approach is the exact opposite, and I love that.

 

 

From the players:

 

Firstly, they're saying the same thing: "this is not rebuilding," "we're hear to win a Super Bowl," "we'll be ready day one."

Tough to argue with that attitude.

 

Likewise--

 

Of the prior regime, there has been A LOT of damning-by-proxy. The "tempo" has changed. There's more "enthusiasm." There's more "energy." There's more "excitement." I take this to mean one of two things:

1. Marrone's crew is as advertised, which is to say--he's got a reputation for being a no-nonsense, straight shooting guy with high expectations for his players (aka Capt. Culture Changer).
    
   
2. Gailey and Co. were a bona fide snooze fest, and based off some very reliable player-intel I've received, that's likely to have been the case.
   

I haven't seen much talk around here re: the sound bytes that have been coming out of OBD since last week's OTA's, so I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks.

 

NOW: It's so easy to get swept up in blind optimism during a regime-transition, yes. But I gotta feeling about these guys. I truly believe the tides have turned. GO BILLS!

 

:w00t: :w00t:

 

P.S. Cue the "they haven't played any games yet" crowd and the "realists" with their "I'll believe it when I see it" chorus.

It really sounds like grasping at straws. Sorry.

 

You say "Marrone's crew is as advertised, which is to say--he's got a reputation for being a no-nonsense, straight shooting guy with high expectations for his players (aka Capt. Culture Changer)." However, so did Jauron and Gailey- especially Jauron whose constantly talked about how he was straight shooter with high expectations in his defense. Williams hit his first camp with an air horn and Gailey pulled the TVs out of the weight room to show how "no-nonsense" they were.

 

You say that "The "tempo" has changed" but the Bills seem asleep this off season with very little free agency action and no real specific talk about what changes they plan on making.

 

And when you say that there's more "energy, enthusiasm and excitement" I have to wonder what you are looking at. Bills fans, including the ones on this board, are as down on the teams prospects as I have ever seen them and what are the players saying that is any different from what they say before every season? Remember Donte Whitner "guaranteeing" that the Bills will make the playoffs?

Edited April 12, 2013 by vincec

[The Big Cat]

It really sounds like grasping at straws. Sorry.

 

You say "Marrone's crew is as advertised, which is to say--he's got a reputation for being a no-nonsense, straight shooting guy with high expectations for his players (aka Capt. Culture Changer)." However, so did Jauron and Gailey- especially Jauron whose constantly talked about how he was straight shooter with high expectations in his defense. Williams hit his first camp with an air horn and Gailey pulled the TVs out of the weight room to show how "no-nonsense" they were.

 

You say that "The "tempo" has changed" but the Bills seem asleep this off season with very little free agency action and no real specific talk about what changes they plan on making.

 

And when you say that there's more "energy, enthusiasm and excitement" I have to wonder what you are looking at. Bills fans, including the ones on this board, are as down on the teams prospects as I have ever seen them and what are the players saying that is any different from what they say before every season? Remember Donte Whitner "guaranteeing" that the Bills will make the playoffs?

 

RE: Jauron, his defenses were light years better than the crap we've trotted out since he's left. Hate the scheme all you want, at the very least it kept opponents from marching up and down the field at will.

 

--But more importantly, I don't know what relevance your latter points have to...anything...in this thread so far--

 

RE: Tempo, practice speed and meeting energy have absolutely nothing to do with FO activity.

 

RE: Energy and excitement, I'm talking about personnel, not fans.

[BADOLBILZ]

RE: Jauron, his defenses were light years better than the crap we've trotted out since he's left. Hate the scheme all you want, at the very least it kept opponents from marching up and down the field at will.

 

--But more importantly, I don't know what relevance your latter points have to...anything...in this thread so far--

 

RE: Tempo, practice speed and meeting energy have absolutely nothing to do with FO activity.

 

RE: Energy and excitement, I'm talking about personnel, not fans.

 

Jauron's defense did allow teams to march up and down the field. They were not good defenses. They just didn't allow big plays....and in doing so were able to shorten the game.......which was his intention from the start. An "up-tempo offense" needs posessions. So if that is Marrone's offensive intention, it is not congruent with a defense that allows opponents to go on 7-8 minute drives every time they have the ball. Point is, the Bills haven't had a good defense since LeBeau left.

 

The near exception would maybe be Jauron's first defense in Buffalo......but when he and Marv let Clements and Fletcher walk and dealt Takeo....the pass defense went to HELL and all the turnovers went with them. Ever since then the Bills have had BAD defenses every year.

Edited April 12, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[The Big Cat]

Jauron's defense did allow teams to march up and down the field. They were not good defenses. They just didn't allow big plays....and in doing so were able to shorten the game.......which was his intention from the start. An "up-tempo offense" needs posessions. Jauron's defense is not congruent with a defense that allows opponents to go on 7-8 minute drives every time they have the ball. Point is, the Bills haven't had a good defense since LeBeau left.

 

The near exception would maybe be Jauron's first defense in Buffalo......but when he and Marv let Clements and Fletcher walk and dealt Takeo....the pass defense went to HELL and all the turnovers went with them. Ever since then the Bills have had BAD defenses every year.

 

Fine, your'e right. Who !@#$ing cares at this point?

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

And back to the OP--it never seemed like Gailey was looking to hit the ground running.

And by all accounts, Marrone and crew already have.

 

(voice of Kent Brockman) "and I, for one, welcome our new overlord(s) ..."

 

Great post/thread ... only time will tell on Marrone. But put me in the drinking-the-Bills'-Kool-aid group, because I do believe he will be our most significant offseason free-agent addition - one who will get the most out of what we have, and get rid of those who are not on board. He certainly comes across as a guy you can not just B.S. - and he doesn't come off as an excuse-maker.

 

"Don't confuse effort with results" is a great motto that only begins to set expectations for the Bills beyond the comfort zones of our players (and fans).

 

"I want to smell the breath of our players" is an awesome quote from a coach that should serve as a wake-up call for a few guys.

 

Syracuse people truly know where he took that program from ... it was a complete disaster when he got there. The Bills are a yearly disaster in terms of living up to our expectations and, especially in 2012, playing up to the best of their capabilities. Plus if Bill Polian vouches for Marrone as having been his #1 NFL HC in-waiting, I am willing to get excited and see what he can do with our men.

[dogbyte]

This is the NFL not college, cutting players has cap ramifications.. What if Mario deciedes he does not like plan and dogs it. How do you cut him. I am willing to give the coaching staff a chance and the super bowl should be the goal, not just the playoffs. Lets see how the coach interacts with this FO when they let his players walk in FA or when they screw up the draft.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

This is the NFL not college, cutting players has cap ramifications.. What if Mario deciedes he does not like plan and dogs it. How do you cut him. I am willing to give the coaching staff a chance and the super bowl should be the goal, not just the playoffs. Lets see how the coach interacts with this FO when they let his players walk in FA or when they screw up the draft.

 

Of course you can not just run Mario off the team at this point, nor should you want to. If anyone knows the difference between coaching college guys and pro guys, it would be a guy like Marrone, who has done both. I really think his biggest impact will be getting more out of what we have, and that has to be enticing to Nix/Russ/Ralphie boy.

 

If Marrone (and Pettine, his proven NFL DC whom he will presumably not be afraid to approach about performance and/or philosophy from week to week) can get Mario, KW and Dareus going, look out!!!

Edited April 12, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[dogbyte]

If your players need the coaching staff to get them motivated, then you have the wrong players. Coaching can help with good game plans and teaching rookies. But it is the players who have to perform, this is where talent comes to the front.

Edited April 12, 2013 by dogbyte

[CodeMonkey]

If your players need the coaching staff to get them motivated, then you have the wrong players. Coaching can help with good game plans and teaching rookies. But it is the players who have to perform, this is where talent comes to the front.

I am of this mindset as well. Coaches can and should help improve the players skills on the field that allow them, and the team to be successful, as well as game plans/calls etc. I know that NFL players in general are not the sharpest tools in the shed. But if their behavior can be altered by air horns, removal of TVs from weight rooms, or banners and pictures of a trophy hanging on the wall then even I gave them too much credit.

[The Big Cat]

If your players need the coaching staff to get them motivated, then you have the wrong players. Coaching can help with good game plans and teaching rookies. But it is the players who have to perform, this is where talent comes to the front.

I am of this mindset as well. Coaches can and should help improve the players skills on the field that allow them, and the team to be successful, as well as game plans/calls etc. I know that NFL players in general are not the sharpest tools in the shed. But if their behavior can be altered by air horns, removal of TVs from weight rooms, or banners and pictures of a trophy hanging on the wall then even I gave them too much credit.

 

I think you're right, to an extent. Except that in the professional leagues, winning isn't a player's own motivation. It makes up the lion share of motivation for most players, but once money's involved, the stakes are different.

 

However, even assuming players need no motivation, the mark of a good coach is not how they motivate, but that they never de-motivate, something we know the coaches managed to do here last year.

[Iraq Vet]

0-16.... Marrone could be a mad genius... but we are going 0-16. He is going to play young guys and install systems.

 

Then next year a serious run that gets very deep in the post season.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

I am of this mindset as well. Coaches can and should help improve the players skills on the field that allow them, and the team to be successful, as well as game plans/calls etc. I know that NFL players in general are not the sharpest tools in the shed. But if their behavior can be altered by air horns, removal of TVs from weight rooms, or banners and pictures of a trophy hanging on the wall then even I gave them too much credit.

 

I appreciate the point about "your coach should not need to motivate NFL players, they should be self-motivated", which I somewhat agree with, but it presumes we have the wrong players, which I do not totally believe.

 

Were the Bills ... not talented enough in 2012? (perhaps in some areas) ... poorly coached? (re-watch the gift we gave Tennessee and the one we squandered vs St Louis - I unequivocally think so).

 

The idea that the Bills are at/near the bottom of the league in talent is a myth propogated by glass-is-half-empty Negative Nancys (Nancies?) ... we had a coach who was like a frightened turtle down the stretch - and was shown the door as soon as possible after the season.

 

Marrone - your NFL COY for 2013

Gee, this Kool-Aid is delicious, and only pennies a serving!

Edited April 12, 2013 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

I think you're right, to an extent. Except that in the professional leagues, winning isn't a player's own motivation. It makes up the lion share of motivation for most players, but once money's involved, the stakes are different.

 

However, even assuming players need no motivation, the mark of a good coach is not how they motivate, but that they never de-motivate, something we know the coaches managed to do here last year.

 

Nothing motivates like good old-fashioned fear ... I have only seen Marrone speak a few times, and I know he is a pretty big guy (former OL) as well ...

 

I am not sure I would like to be the young chap who picks up his daughter for a date at the drive-in, visions of 2nd base or better in his head!

 

All I am saying is that after Jauron and Gailey, I bet Jerry Sullivan will think twice about asking potentially inflammatory questions post-game

[Bills4]

If your players need the coaching staff to get them motivated, then you have the wrong players. Coaching can help with good game plans and teaching rookies. But it is the players who have to perform, this is where talent comes to the front.

 

This is only partially true. At least the part about motivation. A good speech before a big game goes a long way. Coaches who dont believe its their job to ever motivate their team are partially right. Its the same in business. You cant make your people be motivated on a daily basis. They have to wake up every day and want it for themselves. But an Any Given Sunday or Glenn Gary Glenn Ross type motivational speech can really motivate a team.