The new tone at OBD: What they're saying

[Mr. WEO]

It's only unjustified because you say it is. Before Marrone was hired, his work at Syracuse earned him the reputation as a "culture changer" and actitivy AND player feedback to date would suggest this be the case at OBD, too.

 

This is important because all along the "realists" have told us that nothing will change until Ralph has gone and the culture is shifted. Well, by ALL evidence that exists IN APRIL (GRANTED!), progress is/ being made.

 

 

What "evidence"? Because you say so? It's April, voluntary workouts just began. What change has occured to this point? And don't give me your deep "inside" stuff that you won't publicly divulge. Just tell us what the evidence is.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Show me the baby

Where's Travis?

[The Big Cat]

What "evidence"? Because you say so? It's April, voluntary workouts just began. What change has occured to this point? And don't give me your deep "inside" stuff that you won't publicly divulge. Just tell us what the evidence is.

 

I offered to give details via PM. Take it or leave it.

 

And what evidence? You mean besides Ralph handing Russ the keys? Besides what multiple players have said? Are they lying?

[White Linen]

What "evidence"? Because you say so? It's April, voluntary workouts just began. What change has occured to this point? And don't give me your deep "inside" stuff that you won't publicly divulge. Just tell us what the evidence is.

 

What evidence do you have that a culture change hasn't started?

[Bills4]

What "evidence"? Because you say so? It's April, voluntary workouts just began. What change has occured to this point? And don't give me your deep "inside" stuff that you won't publicly divulge. Just tell us what the evidence is.

 

Would you agree that Marrone changed the culture at Syracuse? Also, its not like Syracuse has tons of recruits. He had to work with a recruiting program who attracted bottom 1-2 star recruits. The Syracuse program basically gets recruits who dont have any other options. I would guess that they are one of the FBS schools that has the least amount of guys in the NFL. Syracuse had some very big character wins this year. 4th quarter comebacks and overtime battles. That shows his team had character and confidence when the game is on the line. Whereas, the Bills have constantly played not to lose and lost big games in the 4th quarter over the years.

 

So if he has a proven ability to change a programs/franchise' culture. He has NFL experience working with a pro style offense under one of the best coordinators in the league. And as a bonus, he's not some Southern or California import. He's from the region/state.

 

Why would you not feel positive about a guy like this? The Bills have nothing to lose. Its a shitbum franchise. Maybe he can be the guy. Hes not the typical retread. If anything, it shows the organization is doing things differently this year.

 

I dont know why there is so much negativity on this board. Its ok to be both realistic and hopeful.

[MDH]

What evidence do you have that a culture change hasn't started?

 

This sounds like an argument about the existence of god. Then again, I guess the Bills do work in mysterious ways...

[The Big Cat]

This sounds like an argument about the existence of god. Then again, I guess the Bills do work in mysterious ways...

 

That was my first thought too, but it's likewise silly to suggest nothing has changed at OBD. Has everything changed? No. But there is more than ample evidence to show things have changed.

[seq004]

Talk is cheap. We shall see, but I've heard this before.

Edited April 10, 2013 by seq004

[eball]

What "evidence"? Because you say so? It's April, voluntary workouts just began. What change has occured to this point? And don't give me your deep "inside" stuff that you won't publicly divulge. Just tell us what the evidence is.

 

What the hell are the two of you arguing about? New head coach + new coaching staff + some redefined front office roles = change. That's a fact. It's hardly a surprise that the new guys are putting their own touches on things, and people are commenting on it.

 

We all know "nothing matters" until they hit the field, but you don't change the culture of an organization overnight. It has to start somewhere.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's only unjustified because you say it is. Before Marrone was hired, his work at Syracuse earned him the reputation as a "culture changer" and actitivy AND player feedback to date would suggest this be the case at OBD, too.

 

This is important because all along the "realists" have told us that nothing will change until Ralph has gone and the culture is shifted. Well, by ALL evidence that exists IN APRIL (GRANTED!), progress is/ being made.

 

And no, the league does not work that way. But out of curiosity which personnel moves should they have made? The post-lockout trends show very clearly that the only teams that are going all-in right now are a.) over paying and b.) are the ones entering years 2, 3 or 4 without much success (i.e. they're FO's trying to save their jobs)

 

You're also making the supposition that the league is full of talented and untalented players--that some teams have talent while others don't. I believe that's categorically false. Yes, some teams will have STANDOUT talent, but the vast majority of players are capable of just about the same thing. What makes them successful or not is how they execute a team's gamplan and scheme.

 

No, it's unjustified because the team has two FAILED NFL quarterbacks at the top of their depth chart, a first time NFL head coach, a decidedly shallow roster made shallower by some self inflicted wounds and the same front office that assembled this mess is still doing the assembly.

 

The burden of proof is on them.

 

I think you are a little confused about which teams win and which teams lose in the NFL. The NFL is ABOUT matchups. Talent matters...a lot. Especially at the quarterback position.

 

As for "culture change".....there is no doubt it needs to be done, but hanging banners up is no different than Gailey taking TV's out of the weight room when he took over.

 

I am glad the players are so happy....as we all know, happy players = championship.

 

Maybe Marrone put the tv's back.

 

Bottom line: if you don't have the talent to execute the gameplan......you lose. The more you lose early on.....the harder it is to reverse that course.

[The Big Cat]

No, it's unjustified because the team has two FAILED NFL quarterbacks at the top of their depth chart, a first time NFL head coach, a decidedly shallow roster made shallower by some self inflicted wounds and the same front office that assembled this mess is still doing the assembly.

 

The burden of proof is on them.

 

I think you are a little confused about which teams win and which teams lose in the NFL. The NFL is ABOUT matchups. Talent matters...a lot. Especially at the quarterback position.

 

As for "culture change".....there is no doubt it needs to be done, but hanging banners up is no different than Gailey taking TV's out of the weight room when he took over.

 

I am glad the players are so happy....as we all know, happy players = championship.

 

Maybe Marrone put the tv's back.

 

Bottom line: if you don't have the talent to execute the gameplan......you lose. The more you lose early on.....the harder it is to reverse that course.

 

I'm not basing the banners on evidence for change--I'm going off what the players have said, what reporters have said, etc.

 

I'm curious, in your opinion, between a historically bad defense, on sub-par QB play, which do you think was more of a factor in the Bills not making the playoffs in 2012?

[3rdand12]

If you read or listen to Marrone, it's not just the banners or his reasoning why. Although he did explain himself very nicely indeed.

it's starting to reflect though.

Consider the statements made by T jack and K Kolb who are in direct competition with each other and probably know one is gone.

They sound they each have a chance to start in their minds. Thats what i'm talking about Willis. They billieve that something is going on here. ( please dont argue with me on this because i have a sound point )

 

It's not easy getting past 13 years of losing in the NFL.

Is It ?

i thought not.

[BADOLBILZ]

I'm not basing the banners on evidence for change--I'm going off what the players have said, what reporters have said, etc.

 

I'm curious, in your opinion, between a historically bad defense, on sub-par QB play, which do you think was more of a factor in the Bills not making the playoffs in 2012?

 

The team never graduated because of QB play. The high points of the Gailey era were the times when Fitzpatrick was playing well. The Titans broke the Bills serve on 10/21...a game Fitz blew. He also blew the Rams game and came up small in Indianapolis and at the end against the Pats in NE. The defense was a statistical nightmare, but the truth was that their play was just wildly uneven. Three years into a regime, you need to be able to rely on a QB to give you a consistent performance and be able to make enough throws to keep an opponent honest. That wasn't happening with Fitz.

 

Turning around defenses is easy enough that worst to first actually happens on that side of the ball. It's usually a matter of creating matchups that favor your personnel. It can be one player. JJ Watt for Houston. Lavonte David for the Bucs. And you can transform a defense in free agency. See the Ted Washington/Bryce Paup/Jim Jeffocat Bills or the Takeo Spikes/Sam Adams/Lawyer Milloy Bills. I fully expect Pettine to bring this defense up to top 10 level. It's more than realistic to expect. There is some talent on that side of the ball and a lot of this teams assets have been devoted to that side of the ball.

 

But quarterbacking? Kevin Kolb and Tarvaris Jackson? That's just awful. I don't care how much of a genius Marrone thinks he is, that is garbage. You aren't winning anything with garbage at QB.

[tonyjustbcuz]

First the coaches:

 

One of the things that used to drive me nuts about Gailey was how it seemed--even 3/4 of the way through a season the team was still "learning," "improving," "installing," etc. Now, I understand that no coach will ever get on the mic, or even say to his team, boys, we've arrived, the time for improvement is over, you're just the fine way you are. That much is clear, but Gailey seemed to have a 3 year plan that was taking 8 years to execute.

 

Marrone basically said in his interview with Murph last week that his approach is the exact opposite, and I love that.

 

 

From the players:

 

Firstly, they're saying the same thing: "this is not rebuilding," "we're hear to win a Super Bowl," "we'll be ready day one."

Tough to argue with that attitude.

 

Likewise--

 

Of the prior regime, there has been A LOT of damning-by-proxy. The "tempo" has changed. There's more "enthusiasm." There's more "energy." There's more "excitement." I take this to mean one of two things:

1. Marrone's crew is as advertised, which is to say--he's got a reputation for being a no-nonsense, straight shooting guy with high expectations for his players (aka Capt. Culture Changer).
    
   
2. Gailey and Co. were a bona fide snooze fest, and based off some very reliable player-intel I've received, that's likely to have been the case.
   

I haven't seen much talk around here re: the sound bytes that have been coming out of OBD since last week's OTA's, so I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks.

 

NOW: It's so easy to get swept up in blind optimism during a regime-transition, yes. But I gotta feeling about these guys. I truly believe the tides have turned. GO BILLS!

 

:w00t: :w00t:

 

P.S. Cue the "they haven't played any games yet" crowd and the "realists" with their "I'll believe it when I see it" chorus.

 

 

Realist here..Hello. I admire your positive vibe about the Bills and hope and pray that things are finally turning for the better, and that better days are ahead. I think stop #1 is Free Agency, and thus far I have been disappointed overall. You got contending teams and non-tenders who signed 4,5,6,7,8, and even at least 9 Free Agents while we signed two mid-range players to slow down some of the leaks, but not quite plugs! We had several holes on our roster due to free agency losses, and possibly to injury to the TE, but considering all the holes we added to our demise by self-creating more holes by cutting several players including our 2 top tacklers, one being Nick Barnett? We can ill afford more holes in our "Swiss Cheese roster."

 

I don't see Kolb as the next coming, but he'll get his chance to prove himself considering the competition on the roster. I don't see

this draft worthy of wasting a #8 pick on a QB, yet considering the deficiency we probably should trade down a few slots and pickup whomever the Bills draft war room has slotted the highest on their board while picking up an extra pick or two in the process. Overall, The Bills have not had a draft that graded out as an "A" in many years, yet that is exactly what they need if they want to even smell playoff contention.

I want to be hopefully, but "realistically," based on the history of the Bills I believe that they are looking at 4-6 wins this year (sound familiar?) As analogies go...You have your Honda's, Toyota's, Fords, etc...and then you have your Yugo's, AMC's, & Old Chrysler "k" cars! Unless we are going to get serious about utilizing our resources, pickup key free agents, and drafting better than New England seeing that they pick 20 picks below us everyear...Until we make a commitment to assembling "Quality" parts, the talk of hope, and the expectations of 10 wins and the playoffs will remain just that, and like every year..I get blasted by one or two Bills fans for not buying into the "New Bills" Hype, and how this new staff, and this team that got rid of the deadwood is going to take this league by storm and contend for the (Playoffs.. Playoffs!!!)...but as the sun fades, and the temperatures drop these fans who I p'd off are nowhere to be found, until the next off-season when everything is forgotten and new hope rises with the spring sunshine!!!!

 

There is no bigger fan, I'm addicted to following the Bills, I set-up my own war room, and study the Bills and have been doing my own analytics for years. I was mad when we passed on Rob Grankowski, Bryan Orakapo, Colin Capernick, Hali Ngnata, and others that were my projections, and to my disappointment some of the same boneheads on the Bills staff remain, and that is part of the problem! Look at Detroit, Cleveland, the Bills, and until recently Cincinatti, and a few other teams...Almost every year they stink, and if they inadvertently pickup a couple of players and sniff success they soon recede right back into the depths of despair and muddy water!!! You ever notice how New England is good every year, and Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis are good every year, and when Indy went down they went down hard for a one year hiatus, and rebounded with a vengence!!! This is because their management makes shrewd decisions and out draft us, out coach us, pickup essential FA's, and hire the right people in their organization to build on their past successes and future Superbowl titles !!!!

 

So even though I have it all figured out I will remain polite, wish you optimists well as I long for the same result as you do, but the difference is that I can recognize the signs of team building towards the playoffs and beyond, and unfortunately those teams are Cincinnati, Seatle, possible Kansas City despite last season, maybe Washington, but not our Bills !!!! 2013-2014 (5-11)

Sorry.....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Its gotta be a mentality before it becomes a reality. You know who said that? Ric Flair a 16 time world heavyweight champion. You always have to think in terms of success.

 

TA BE THA MAN....YA GATTA... BEAT THE MAN WOO!

 

[The Big Cat]

The team never graduated because of QB play. The high points of the Gailey era were the times when Fitzpatrick was playing well. The Titans broke the Bills serve on 10/21...a game Fitz blew. He also blew the Rams game and came up small in Indianapolis and at the end against the Pats in NE. The defense was a statistical nightmare, but the truth was that their play was just wildly uneven. Three years into a regime, you need to be able to rely on a QB to give you a consistent performance and be able to make enough throws to keep an opponent honest. That wasn't happening with Fitz.

 

Turning around defenses is easy enough that worst to first actually happens on that side of the ball. It's usually a matter of creating matchups that favor your personnel. It can be one player. JJ Watt for Houston. Lavonte David for the Bucs. And you can transform a defense in free agency. See the Ted Washington/Bryce Paup/Jim Jeffocat Bills or the Takeo Spikes/Sam Adams/Lawyer Milloy Bills. I fully expect Pettine to bring this defense up to top 10 level. It's more than realistic to expect. There is some talent on that side of the ball and a lot of this teams assets have been devoted to that side of the ball.

 

But quarterbacking? Kevin Kolb and Tarvaris Jackson? That's just awful. I don't care how much of a genius Marrone thinks he is, that is garbage. You aren't winning anything with garbage at QB.

 

Oh, please. Fitz had to play perfect this year to keep us honest. Fitz blew a game in which the defense surrendered 5 touchdowns? He's an easy scapegoat because he's not "franchise," but let's not kid ourselves. Mark Sanchez did not get the Jets to the AFC Championship his first two years in the league. That team won in spite of him because of DEFENSE. Fitz was left with the enviable task of winning in spite of his defense, a task he was simply not up to, and a feat that left him looking a lot worse than he otherwise would have.

 

We don't have a quarterback gem, granted. But if you think defenses can flip a team from worst to first, then by acknowledging that potential you're contradicting yourself by saying this team is going nowhere because of QB alone.

 

Realist here..Hello. I admire your positive vibe about the Bills and hope and pray that things are finally turning for the better, and that better days are ahead. I think stop #1 is Free Agency, and thus far I have been disappointed overall. You got contending teams and non-tenders who signed 4,5,6,7,8, and even at least 9 Free Agents while we signed two mid-range players to slow down some of the leaks, but not quite plugs! We had several holes on our roster due to free agency losses, and possibly to injury to the TE, but considering all the holes we added to our demise by self-creating more holes by cutting several players including our 2 top tacklers, one being Nick Barnett? We can ill afford more holes in our "Swiss Cheese roster."

 

I don't see Kolb as the next coming, but he'll get his chance to prove himself considering the competition on the roster. I don't see

this draft worthy of wasting a #8 pick on a QB, yet considering the deficiency we probably should trade down a few slots and pickup whomever the Bills draft war room has slotted the highest on their board while picking up an extra pick or two in the process. Overall, The Bills have not had a draft that graded out as an "A" in many years, yet that is exactly what they need if they want to even smell playoff contention.

I want to be hopefully, but "realistically," based on the history of the Bills I believe that they are looking at 4-6 wins this year (sound familiar?) As analogies go...You have your Honda's, Toyota's, Fords, etc...and then you have your Yugo's, AMC's, & Old Chrysler "k" cars! Unless we are going to get serious about utilizing our resources, pickup key free agents, and drafting better than New England seeing that they pick 20 picks below us everyear...Until we make a commitment to assembling "Quality" parts, the talk of hope, and the expectations of 10 wins and the playoffs will remain just that, and like every year..I get blasted by one or two Bills fans for not buying into the "New Bills" Hype, and how this new staff, and this team that got rid of the deadwood is going to take this league by storm and contend for the (Playoffs.. Playoffs!!!)...but as the sun fades, and the temperatures drop these fans who I p'd off are nowhere to be found, until the next off-season when everything is forgotten and new hope rises with the spring sunshine!!!!

 

There is no bigger fan, I'm addicted to following the Bills, I set-up my own war room, and study the Bills and have been doing my own analytics for years. I was mad when we passed on Rob Grankowski, Bryan Orakapo, Colin Capernick, Hali Ngnata, and others that were my projections, and to my disappointment some of the same boneheads on the Bills staff remain, and that is part of the problem! Look at Detroit, Cleveland, the Bills, and until recently Cincinatti, and a few other teams...Almost every year they stink, and if they inadvertently pickup a couple of players and sniff success they soon recede right back into the depths of despair and muddy water!!! You ever notice how New England is good every year, and Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis are good every year, and when Indy went down they went down hard for a one year hiatus, and rebounded with a vengence!!! This is because their management makes shrewd decisions and out draft us, out coach us, pickup essential FA's, and hire the right people in their organization to build on their past successes and future Superbowl titles !!!!

 

So even though I have it all figured out I will remain polite, wish you optimists well as I long for the same result as you do, but the difference is that I can recognize the signs of team building towards the playoffs and beyond, and unfortunately those teams are Cincinnati, Seatle, possible Kansas City despite last season, maybe Washington, but not our Bills !!!! 2013-2014 (5-11)

Sorry.....

 

The Bills need a better quarterback to win the Super Bowl.

 

They need a better defense to get to the playoffs.

Edited April 10, 2013 by taC giB ehT

[Ramius]

But quarterbacking? Kevin Kolb and Tarvaris Jackson? That's just awful. I don't care how much of a genius Marrone thinks he is, that is garbage. You aren't winning anything with garbage at QB.

 

Who exactly were the Bills supposed to bring in at QB (to this point) in the offseason? If they come out of the draft without a QB, then yes, there's a real problem and i'll be just as miffed as you. But if the plan was to draft the future guy all along, how can you bash them for not upgrading the QB position when 1) no significant upgrades were available through FA, and 2) the draft hasn't occured yet?

[kickedface]

i was feeling that last year the team had a decent shot. the talent is there. but the coaching staff couldn't seem to adjust or even come up with a game plan. i am once again expecting a lot out of the D. the offense really should be just managed, they did ok last year just had some inconsistencies at qb. so it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[BADOLBILZ]

Yeah, I'm contradicting myself by saying that defense is the easy side of the ball to improve. I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. And saying we don't have a "gem" at QB is downplaying the extremity of the situation.

 

The Gailey era didn't end because of a couple bad DC hires. The bar was set very LOW here. It came down to his over confidence in his own ability to coax top QB play out of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Enter Doug Marrone.........and two more lousy QB candidates.

 

Is it a prerequisite for potential Bills HC's to believe they can polish turd?

 

I mean, I remember in Gailey's first season when everyone here was yucking it up because Mike Shanahan, who had turned down the Bills job, was struggling in Washington.

 

Well, the likely washed-up but still coherent Shanahan made the playoffs last year. Gailey got canned.

 

The reason? One coach knew what he needed and the other did not.

 

When the team trots in Kevin Kolb and puts him at the top of it's depth chart.......I think it is fair to wonder if the head coach is just a bit over confident in his ability......or if the GM is too confident in his ability. Either way, knowing your limitations is part of the equation.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Well, the likely washed-up but still coherent Shanahan...

Highly debatable based on his decision making with regard to Griffin.