Ted William's frozen head Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Show me the baby They threw it out with the bathwater.(Along with Levitre)
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but as many others have pointed out, we've heard this stuff before. Gregg Williams was tough and was gonna whip the guys into shape, Coach Gailey was going to end "the culture of losing" and when he stepped on the field he didn't want to win, he expected to win. All sounded great at the time. I'm hoping that Coach Marrone can turn the Titanic around and return this franchise to it's rightful place atop the AFC. But you don't do win any games in April. The first pre season game is 4 months away. I don't think the Titanic's inability to turn around was its flaw. You could say, "I'm hoping that Coach Marrone has a big dinghy to rescue everyone from this sinking ship." If you're going to hold onto the Titanic metaphor and all.
Mr. WEO Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Meh, I guess. We have seen and heard from so many different leadership styles over the past decade or so, at this point I'm numb to it all. We've tried waking up players with megaphones. We've tried cutting Bobby Shaw. We've tried telling players it's ok to cry, because winning in the NFL is hard. We've tried show me the baby. At this point I don't really want to hear anymore talk. Especially the stuff that comes out of the OBD spinroom. Remember, a marketing guru is running the damn show. I will remain skeptical until the product actually improves. When I look at this roster, I can't get too excited. Bill Belichick is the best coach in the NFL and he says almost nothing to the media and has the personality of a dialtone. Just win already, no more talking. This sums it all up well. Does no one remember how we "won the preseason" last year? And how the "coaching change" at DC was cause for great optimism? And how anyone who questioned this was called "a pessimist" and "negative". Some posters can't resist blurting out this same type of post every off-season (same exact stuff was written when Gailey got here). They will have to pardon the reservations of those who would like to see actions (results) and not college pep talks.
Beerball Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Does no one remember how we "won the preseason" last year? And how the "coaching change" at DC was cause for great optimism? And how anyone who questioned this was called "a pessimist" and "negative". People were very mean to me
MClem06 Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Is it? Starting with 2000: 8-8 3-13 8-8 6-10 9-7 5-11 7-9 7-9 7-9 6-10 4-12 6-10 6-10 Then in 2013 ... Superbowl! That's a heck of an overnight improvement due to not much more than a "culture change" But hey, dare to dream! Officially depressed now. Thanks a lot for reminding us all of the last decade of sh*tty bills play. I'll be on the skyway bridge if anyone is looking for me. And as the titanic had a small rudder for steering such a huge ship (sticking with the analogies), the Bills need better talent on this team to make the rudder bigger to steer us into the playoffs. BAM how bout that and i haven't even had a cup of coffee. A lot of the hype is done by Marketing and local media to sell seats. If you expect them to not try to pump everyone up and just be quite then you haven't paid attention to their marketing machine the last few years.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Talk is talk, but a new hungry guy young and fresh is what was needed. Time will tell if this one is the right one. If the winning comes, then the rhetoric is justified, if they have another losing season at some point the were hear were ready is just empty talk.
BobChalmers Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 We are, 1 franchise QB 3 legit WRs 1 legit TE 3 solid LBs 1 SS 2-3 depth OL 1 more solid CB 1 more solid DE Away from making the playoffs! Why do people insist on posting obvious non-factuals? It's not fantasy football, with 12 teams in the league, and everyone on your roster needing to be a superstar. 3 legit WR's AND A TE????? REALLY?? So Stevie needs to be benched, or are you benching Spiller and lining 5 receivers out every play?? And where is this DE going to line up? Standing on top of Mark Anderson's head? 3 LBs?? In your version are we cutting Bradham and Lawson?? Or are you lining up in a 3-4, so now what the hell is that DE for again when the DT's play end?? And, do you have to have a "franchise QB" to make the playoffs? Or is that a self-proving statement for you since you measure QB's by wins? And why is everyone convinced Searcy and McKelvin can't be solid starters? With decent coaching, which I think they will finally get, one stud LB is all the defense needs to excel. Defensive team stats vary wildly from year to year - coaching can turn them around quick. One WR, One TE if Chandler can't come back. One QB ideally. They can get that and 1-2 OL in the draft.
Mr. WEO Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 And why is everyone convinced Searcy and McKelvin can't be solid starters? . You're really scratching your head over that one?
Offside Number 76 Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I will say this: while I'm not impressed with Kolb as a QB, I was impressed with his attitude during the press conference.
Homey D. Clown Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I seem to remember that when Gailey arrived, he was all about results or you'll be replaced, cutting some dead wood like Lee Evans and a few other fan favorites. The man was a good coach that pinned his career to the vest of a backup QB. what other QB option did he have? I was tired of the general mishandling of players, and his stubbornness to play a game plan not suited to his team's strengths, but he was a realist about what he said in the media, and I liked him for that. I hope coach Marrone is the real deal, but I also think Gailey was too, he just had a miserable defense, and a reluctance to adjust, and that cost him his job.
thewildrabbit Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 I seem to remember that when Gailey arrived, he was all about results or you'll be replaced, cutting some dead wood like Lee Evans and a few other fan favorites. The man was a good coach that pinned his career to the vest of a backup QB. what other QB option did he have? I was tired of the general mishandling of players, and his stubbornness to play a game plan not suited to his team's strengths, but he was a realist about what he said in the media, and I liked him for that. I hope coach Marrone is the real deal, but I also think Gailey was too, he just had a miserable defense, and a reluctance to adjust, and that cost him his job. Gailey? Look at his overall W/L record man 16-32, any HC is only as good as his record indicates. I think Gailey came in with the attitude that the Bills players were lacking in toughness, and were coddled by Jauron with TV's in the training rooms ETC. What Gailey didn't realize was that Jauron was loved by his players as he was a "players coach", after all he was an NFL player at one time. The Bills players under Jauron played their hearts out for him in horrible schemes. Not to mention all the injuries that occurred for whatever reason. Gailey was a moron, just not a complete moron as his offense did manage to put up some good numbers with a mediocre QB. Gailey thought he could avoid the injury bug by hiring 3 trainers. nope, didn't work. Anyway, Marrone will only be as good as his supporting cast, the schemes he runs, how the players perform in those schemes, and his game planning. Let's be realistic here tho, as much as we all love Marrone for the moment, the man might not be able to overcome the morons above him running the team or the obvious lack of player talent at different positions.
CodeMonkey Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Gailey? Look at his overall W/L record man 16-32, any HC is only as good as his record indicates. Marrone was 25-25 overall at Syracuse and 11-17 in conference. Not saying the Bills are "doomed" with Marrone, but if you are going to condem Gailey for his record then fair is fair. Edited April 10, 2013 by CodeMonkey
The Senator Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Vis-a-vis Chan Gailey, I KNEW we were in trouble when Trent Edwards got mocked out at training camp by a gang of 12-year olds - and everyone thought it was so great that Gailey yelled at the kids!!!! Gailey never delivered the fair and open QB competition he promised, and actually turmed out to be a horrific judge and mentor of QB talent - as well as a way-below average offensive game planner. Vis-a-vis Marrone & Co., the proof will become apparent with the ONLY thing that matters - wins on the field... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! . Edited April 10, 2013 by The Senator
The Big Cat Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 Let me be perfectly clear about this: The Bills haven't done anything on the field yet, haven't won a game, haven't dispelled any sense of impending doom...just haven't accomplished anything. The best predictor of tomorrow is yesterday; see the post above regarding W - L records over the past decade plus.... Talk is talk, but a new hungry guy young and fresh is what was needed. Time will tell if this one is the right one. If the winning comes, then the rhetoric is justified, if they have another losing season at some point the were hear were ready is just empty talk. Don't let the point of this get the better of you. Also, it's not about what Marrone and co. are saying, it's about what the players are saying--that things are different, and in ways that would suggest the previous regime was a real stinko. Nobody hear is cheerleading the cheerleading, so coming in here to climb Mt. Pious and snipe that non-existent point serves no purpose.
CodeMonkey Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 Don't let the point of this get the better of you. Also, it's not about what Marrone and co. are saying, it's about what the players are saying--that things are different, and in ways that would suggest the previous regime was a real stinko. Nobody hear is cheerleading the cheerleading, so coming in here to climb Mt. Pious and snipe that non-existent point serves no purpose. 1) Regarding what the players are saying. I didn't go back and check, but I seem to remember the players saying the same types of things when Gailey came on board. "Things are different", "change the culture" and so on. How could they not say that then and now, assuming they want to keep their jobs. 2) Bolded ... So far all there is, is cheerleading. Banners hanging and so on. That's all there could be at this point. So yeah, people here are cheerleading the cheerleading. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
The Big Cat Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 1) Regarding what the players are saying. I didn't go back and check, but I seem to remember the players saying the same types of things when Gailey came on board. "Things are different", "change the culture" and so on. How could they not say that then and now, assuming they want to keep their jobs. 2) Bolded ... So far all there is, is cheerleading. Banners hanging and so on. That's all there could be at this point. So yeah, people here are cheerleading the cheerleading. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Well, I disagree with what you can't fully remember. I do not recall players saying things about the new regime that reflected poorly on the old one. I don't. I'm happy to hop on nexis to verify.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 It's hard to lead in the NFL. And this differs from new/failed regimes in Jacksonville, Cleveland, Kansas City, etc. in what way exactly? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the confidence that the Bills new coaching staff portrays is par for the course for all teams in this situation? Of are you saying that the downtrodden Bills organization which recently admitted that "the brand has been tarnished" is more arrogant than other organizationsins the same situation? Why don't you ask the OP how it differs from all the previous Bills regime changes or those of the other struggling franchises? I don't think it does, but in some cases those franchises have actually had some success in the past 13 years. I think that the unjustified confidence of a new coaching staff should be balanced by realism in the FO wrt personnel and that has not been the case for the past 4 regimes. This franchise should be making leaps and bounds with regard to personnel......that is how the league is set up to work. The downtrodden get bunches of talent of the course of a couple years......get back into contention......then try to stay there while they lose players to free agency.
CodeMonkey Posted April 10, 2013 Posted April 10, 2013 The downtrodden get bunches of talent of the course of a couple years......get back into contention......then try to stay there while they lose players to free agency. About the only thing that breaks that model is mediocrity. You aren't good enough to rise to the top, and you don't suck enough to get the best draft picks. So ultimately you stay mediocre.
The Big Cat Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 1) Regarding what the players are saying. I didn't go back and check, but I seem to remember the players saying the same types of things when Gailey came on board. "Things are different", "change the culture" and so on. How could they not say that then and now, assuming they want to keep their jobs. 2) Bolded ... So far all there is, is cheerleading. Banners hanging and so on. That's all there could be at this point. So yeah, people here are cheerleading the cheerleading. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Okay a quick archive search on bb.com only shows quarterbacks being pleased with Gailey, and that's no surprise, even now after he's gone, I think we can all agree he wrung every last drop of talent from Fitzpatrick, as well, if not better, than any coach would have. There is, however, no mention of the "culture" change--that the atmosphere, or mood was different. Granted, nothing tells you nothing. But--as mentioned before--I have it on good authority that the "culture" was at the bottom of the barrel by last season, that players had lost all faith. Recent comments would suggest that the "attitude" has changed. Enter: the point of this thread. Attitude can be everything. Could it have gotten us a few more wins last year? Debatable, but I say yes, particularly for how badly the defense did...anything (note: my intel, not shockingly, comes from the defensive side of the ball.) If anyone is curious, PM for deets.
The Big Cat Posted April 10, 2013 Author Posted April 10, 2013 Why don't you ask the OP how it differs from all the previous Bills regime changes or those of the other struggling franchises? I don't think it does, but in some cases those franchises have actually had some success in the past 13 years. I think that the unjustified confidence of a new coaching staff should be balanced by realism in the FO wrt personnel and that has not been the case for the past 4 regimes. This franchise should be making leaps and bounds with regard to personnel......that is how the league is set up to work. The downtrodden get bunches of talent of the course of a couple years......get back into contention......then try to stay there while they lose players to free agency. It's only unjustified because you say it is. Before Marrone was hired, his work at Syracuse earned him the reputation as a "culture changer" and actitivy AND player feedback to date would suggest this be the case at OBD, too. This is important because all along the "realists" have told us that nothing will change until Ralph has gone and the culture is shifted. Well, by ALL evidence that exists IN APRIL (GRANTED!), progress is/ being made. And no, the league does not work that way. But out of curiosity which personnel moves should they have made? The post-lockout trends show very clearly that the only teams that are going all-in right now are a.) over paying and b.) are the ones entering years 2, 3 or 4 without much success (i.e. they're FO's trying to save their jobs) You're also making the supposition that the league is full of talented and untalented players--that some teams have talent while others don't. I believe that's categorically false. Yes, some teams will have STANDOUT talent, but the vast majority of players are capable of just about the same thing. What makes them successful or not is how they execute a team's gamplan and scheme.
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