The new tone at OBD: What they're saying

[BADOLBILZ]

Who exactly were the Bills supposed to bring in at QB (to this point) in the offseason? If they come out of the draft without a QB, then yes, there's a real problem and i'll be just as miffed as you. But if the plan was to draft the future guy all along, how can you bash them for not upgrading the QB position when 1) no significant upgrades were available through FA, and 2) the draft hasn't occured yet?

 

Are you pleased with their personnel work this offseason? I understand that drafting a QB in round 1 would indicate an understanding of the urgency of correcting the problem, but so far I haven't seen the kind of personnel work that leaves me impressed that things are changing at this point. And that's where we are. This is a snapshot thread.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

And saying we don't have a "gem" at QB is downplaying the extremity of the situation.

 

The Gailey era didn't end because of a couple bad DC hires. The bar was set very LOW here. It came down to his over confidence in his own ability to coax top QB play out of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Enter Doug Marrone.........and two more lousy QB candidates.

 

Is it a prerequisite for potential Bills HC's to believe they can polish turd?

 

I mean, I remember in Gailey's first season when everyone here was yucking it up because Mike Shanahan, who had turned down the Bills job, was struggling in Washington.

 

Well, the likely washed-up but still coherent Shanahan made the playoffs last year. Gailey got canned.

 

The reason? One coach knew what he needed and the other did not.

 

When the team trots in Kevin Kolb and puts him at the top of it's depth chart.......I think it is fair to wonder if the head coach is just a bit over confident in his ability......or if the GM is too confident in his ability. Either way, knowing your limitations is part of the equation.

 

You're off on this.

 

Based on what we know, Kolb will make a base salary of about $3 million this year and TJax will make about $2.25 million.

 

Because Brad Smith remains on the roster, the Bills have essentially swapped Tyler Thigpen for Kevin Kolb and TJax.

 

In addition, Marrone said yesterday that the acquisition of the two veteran signal callers will have no bearing on the Bills drafting a rookie QB this year.

 

You're damning take on the Bills QB situation ignores some significant facts:

 

1) The Bills have already improved the position by large measure

2) It's almost certain (it's completely certain in my mind) that the Bills will draft their QB of the Future and

3) It's early in the offseason

[BADOLBILZ]

Highly debatable based on his decision making with regard to Griffin.

 

SCOREBOARD

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Are you pleased with their personnel work this offseason? I understand that drafting a QB in round 1 would indicate an understanding of the urgency of correcting the problem, but so far I haven't seen the kind of personnel work that leaves me impressed that things are changing at this point. And that's where we are. This is a snapshot thread.

 

You can't simply criticize the "personnel work" in a vacuum.

 

To discuss it with any depth at all requires the discussion to take place within the context of the salary cap.

 

It requires specific criticisms and compliments of the small handful of moves they've made so far. A ledger so to speak.

 

Then those individual entries can be looked at as an aggregate to judge the work as a whole SO FAR.

 

These are the moves and non-moves so far this offseason (I might have forgotten one or two):

 

McKelvin

Byrd

Levitre

Rinehart

Bryan Scott

David Nelson

Donald Jones

Nick Barnett

Chris Kelsay

Kyle Moore

Manny Lawson

Kevin Kolb

Alan Branch

 

$16 million remaining in cap room

[Fires]

Any word on if C-Mac will be re-signed? He's still got some gas in the tank and has done a pretty good job blocking.

[BADOLBILZ]

You're off on this.

 

Based on what we know, Kolb will make a base salary of about $3 million this year and TJax will make about $2.25 million.

 

Because Brad Smith remains on the roster, the Bills have essentially swapped Tyler Thigpen for Kevin Kolb and TJax.

 

In addition, Marrone said yesterday that the acquisition of the two veteran signal callers will have no bearing on the Bills drafting a rookie QB this year.

 

You're damning take on the Bills QB situation ignores some significant facts:

 

1) The Bills have already improved the position by large measure

2) It's almost certain (it's completely certain in my mind) that the Bills will draft their QB of the Future and

3) It's early in the offseason

 

1) Yeah if you ignore the fact that the previous QB threw 50 TD passes the past two years and instead substitute Thigpen's numbers, they have indeed improved the position by large measure.

2)snapshot thread......but let me know when they select a QB with their first draft pick for the first time in 53 years.

3)snapshot thread

[RuntheDamnBall]

SCOREBOARD

It's gonna be Kirk Cousins' name on that scoreboard if Shanny has his way. Of course he is a better coach than Gailey, which is like beating a four-year-old at chess. But he's senile and he's going to cost his team longer-term success.

 

My response was to "still coherent," nothing else. The rest you have right IMO.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

1) Yeah if you ignore the fact that the previous QB threw 50 TD passes the past two years and instead substitute Thigpen's numbers, they have indeed improved the position by large measure.

2)snapshot thread......but let me know when they select a QB with their first draft pick for the first time in 53 years.

3)snapshot thread

 

I did forget about Fitz didn't I?

 

 

Nonetheless, it's silly to criticize the teams "personnel work" when free agency is still going on and the draft is two weeks away.

 

Especially when that criticism is vague and generalized.

 

Don't feel it necessary to accommodate me (I'm sure we both have better things to do) but feel free to comment on the moves the Bills have made this offseason (outlined above).

[vincec]

P.S. Cue the "they haven't played any games yet" crowd and the "realists" with their "I'll believe it when I see it" chorus.

Sorry, but we've heard it all before from Greg Williams and his air horn to Chan Gailey taking the TVs out of the weight room. All the new coach's talk tough, but it's just BS. Players and fans respect success and until Marrone has success on the field then it's best to just tune out the propaganda because it's meaningless.

[DC Tom]

Are you being ironical?

 

 

 

Do you ever grow tired of putting a negative spin on everything?

 

 

 

Who do you suppose is the early favorite?

 

Dareus?

Mario?

Stevie??

 

Definitely Stevie. Marrone don't brook no Twitter ****.

 

 

And the "new tone"?

[White Linen]

This sounds like an argument about the existence of god. Then again, I guess the Bills do work in mysterious ways...

 

You picked up on my sentiment. The culture has changed - no it hasn't. What is it with some fans that get so upset when someone is feeling positive? I feel positive - well you shouldn't we haven't won in 13 years. Feel how you want is my point.

[Keukasmallies]

What does the past win loss history have to do with Marrone? Maybe your point is you don't want to be optimistic because of the past. Ok fair enough, but isn't being optimistic fair enough too? That's the beauty of a new coaching staff, it's an opportunity for our team to get better. The argument that we have holes on our team is so tiresome. Every team does, like Big Cat said it's not fantasy football.

 

All I'm saying is the debate that a coaching staff can change the direction of a team is absolutely true. Is this the staff to do that? Who knows, but IMO there's plenty of reasons to believe it's possible. The people that don't have the same issues of pursuading as those that do. So I'll turn your own statement back on you. They haven't played a game yet so how do you know they won't win more games than they lose? And what's your evidence they haven't dispelled any sense of impending doom? I say they have with me, you can't prove I'm wrong about that.

 

My point is that the same regime at OBD that has presided over the past decade's debacle is the administration that hired Marrone. My point is that the "change" didn't extend far enough in that the same owner and the same administrators are setting the parameters. If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.

 

The Bills aren't like a team that went astray for a season, or two, or seven; the team has been losing since Christ was a midshipman for God sake. Coach Marrone's new attitude equates to a former coach's reveille air horn--more than likely too little, and more than likely too late--given the current ownership/management structure.

[Sisyphean Bills]

My point is that the same regime at OBD that has presided over the past decade's debacle is the administration that hired Marrone. My point is that the "change" didn't extend far enough in that the same owner and the same administrators are setting the parameters. If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.

 

The Bills aren't like a team that went astray for a season, or two, or seven; the team has been losing since Christ was a midshipman for God sake. Coach Marrone's new attitude equates to a former coach's reveille air horn--more than likely too little, and more than likely too late--given the current ownership/management structure.

 

"Culture change" is often pure propaganda by a leadership group. For obvious reasons, leadership can't come right out and announce "we don't know what we're doing and we !@#$ed it up badly", so they try to sell belief in a better future. Who doesn't want to believe in that? But, if one applies a little objectivity, things get better by having an actionable plan on how to get better and executing it, not on rhetoric and playing to the peasants' dreams of the future.

[BADOLBILZ]

"Culture change" is often pure propaganda by a leadership group. For obvious reasons, leadership can't come right out and announce "we don't know what we're doing and we !@#$ed it up badly", so they try to sell belief in a better future. Who doesn't want to believe in that? But, if one applies a little objectivity, things get better by having an actionable plan on how to get better and executing it, not on rhetoric and playing to the peasants' dreams of the future.

 

And it's the "actionable plan" that is in question. Do we all remember the offseason anticipation for Turk Schonert's no-huddle featuring Trent Edwards throwing to TO and Lee Evans? A dud QB and a weakened OL brought that hype to a halt during the preseason.....to the point that Schonert got canned before the season started. That's how fast an un-actionable plan can blow the hell up. And a head coach in his 9th season in that position actually thought that mess was going to work going into training camp. As I illustrated with the Gaiely/Shanahan comparison......a good coach knows his limitations as well. It was ridiculous........but it was sold on BB.com and by the media the same way John Murphy was selling the banners and Ipads as instruments of change!

 

Kevin Kolb stinks. He's like Rob Johnson without the big play potential. There is one proven effective NFL receiver on the team and TJ and Easley are inactives on most teams. The starting TE may not be available at the start of the season. Fred Jackson is coming off a very poor season. The team just lost it's most durable and arguably it's most effective lineman to free agency. I'm not saying Marrone or Hackett are bad coaches but what coaches can make something out of so little? I wouldn't expect Belichick to do that, even with the benefit of the opponents playbook and signals. I understand that the offseason isn't over but if what they have done now inspires confidence in anyone then they will buy ANYTHING.

[Floridabillsfan1]

We need cover type LBs to cover Brady's only options . His TEs . I don't understand why we are not bringing in a boat load of them ?

 

A QB of course at pick 8 . Just do it !!!

 

A great CB so the front can attack .

 

WR ,OL ,safety , and TEs we can still fill easily but I dont get why they haven't yet ?

 

We need to stop making the Patriots look like they are geniuses .

[CodeMonkey]

I understand that the offseason isn't over but if what they have done now inspires confidence in anyone then they will buy ANYTHING.

It's a choice some people make. They prefer to billieve the next season will be different this time of year and be upbeat and positive rather than go in thinking the Bills will suck, regardless of what is going on. If they get B word slapped during the season then so be it. At least they had the off season. I can't do that myself, but I do see why it would be appealing to some.

[Quester74]

Here's the thing. If you go into a locker room and see a group that has been battered on the field and bashed in the media, your priority is to turn things around mentally first. If you don't target the Super Bowl as the goal for your football team, why do you even field a team?Whether or not any of the fans believe that, based on the on-field product we witnessed and the personnel changes so far, the Bills are a Super Bowl contender is completely inconsequential.

 

I expect that the priorities for Marrone are as follows:

1) Change the attitude in the room. Bring an upbeat, high energy focus and instill a greater drive on the part of the players.

2) Set expectations. If they are not met, make an example out of the biggest offender. If that is a cut, then so be it. if it is just simply putting them on the spot in front of their peers, so be it. Some of the guys on NFL teams are such Prima Donnas that the only thing that makes a difference to them is when they are ostracized. Guys that don't work to achieve a unified goal can easily be ostracized.

3) Put the systems in place. Set the tone on D, O and ST. This is the basics of coaching. No explanation necessary.

 

Couldn't agree more with this entire post.. when it comes to motivation by ostricization (is that a word?) See: Davis, Vernon.. has really been a team player for SF since Singletary called him out.. whether is was as a major part of the offense with Alex Smith under center or Kaepernick running the read-option offense.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Quester74

[Beerball]

You can't simply criticize the "personnel work" in a vacuum.

 

To discuss it with any depth at all requires the discussion to take place within the context of the salary cap.

 

It requires specific criticisms and compliments of the small handful of moves they've made so far. A ledger so to speak.

 

Then those individual entries can be looked at as an aggregate to judge the work as a whole SO FAR.

 

These are the moves and non-moves so far this offseason (I might have forgotten one or two):

 

McKelvin Meh

Byrd Until he's signed to a long term deal this isn't considered a 'move' IMO

Levitre Dislike creating another hole on the team, but at the dollars he got I understand it.

Rinehart Meh

Bryan Scott 43 is the MIKE

David Nelson Total head scratcher that no one can explain to my satisfaction.

Donald Jones Meh

Nick Barnett Time for him to move along.

Chris Kelsay He left us, perhaps a millisecond before he was cut, but until proven this aint a move by the personnel department.

Kyle Moore Meh

Manny Lawson I do hope that he's better than what we had cause we had dog spit. Positive move.

Kevin Kolb Meh. Who is he replacing, Fitz or Thig?

Alan Branch Like it.

 

$16 million remaining in cap room Subtract the rookie money.

[Sisyphean Bills]

$16 million remaining in cap room

 

You know, back in the days when this team actually won games consistently and made the playoffs by dominating the AFC East, I don't ever recall people chest bumming and gushing over how much cap space the team had. The talk then was about how the team might have won the Super Bowl if not for an illegal forward pass.

 

So, yes, most teams now realize that they have to deal with the cap and have sound plans on how to do so. Indeed, every team has the same cap system to deal with. However, some teams like the Patriots seem to both manage their cap and continue to win football games.

[The Big Cat]

Just so we can back track the !@#$ up here for a second:

 

May be I didn't say this clearly enough, but what motivated me to start this topic in the first place was the soft-damning of the former regime that was coming out through players' endorsement for the current guys.

 

I only bring this back up because--even as the thread's purpose--it hasn't got much discussion.