New York State Bulls?

[Mr. WEO]

I think the proposal is for UB to be called New York State University, like Penn State University and Ohio State University, etc.

 

Yes, I think we all understand this. But several are pointing out the confusion some may have with NYU and NYSU--FomerlyUB.

 

And exactluy who is going to be impacted by the name change? Who is the target for this type of...advertising?

 

You're off a few ways here:

 

1. UB doesn't have the only law school. Albany has one, and a good one.

2. Selectivity and the quality of students are not one and the same. UB continues to grow and as its capacity (supply) outweighs current demand due to a lack of visibility, acceptnace goes up. High acceptance can also be due to high quality students.

3. UB is a top flight research university. According to a 2010 ASU report, UB is a top 50 Research University, as is Stony Brook. However, it outranks Stony Brook in top academic measures; total research funding; total federal research funding; and total endowment.

 

So if you want to make an argument it's not a high quality university, try to find some metrics to back it up. The bottomline is, AAU/R1 schools are ranked on their research as much as anything and UB outperforms all SUNY schools and will continue to as the state continues to focus on its as a center of academic excellence, or as used here "flagship." It continues to climb rankings and earn a higher reputation. Sadly the academics programs suck.

 

We can argue until out fingers are typed out about whether this is a good idea but what's not up for debate is which SUNY University if the eminent one in the system.

 

Stony Brook has been a research university for a fraction of the time UB has been around, yet it has already grown to nearly the same size, it is more selective (far more applicants and lower acceptance rate: and a higher percentage of top 10%'ers enrolled) and will likely ecclipse UB in research funding in the next 10 years. As far as I know, Stony Brook isn't looking to "rebrand" itself a gimmick in order to generate interest in it. It is growing exponentially. And the academics don't "suck" there.

 

 

 

Because you will get statewide fans to the sports teams and applicants to the University if the branding is successful.

 

UB changing its name to "NYSU" will not get it any new "statewide" fans. Having your team in postseason play will get more applicants (Stony Brook in the men's NIT).

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

The nickname may have to change, too.

 

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of the New York Red Bulls, the MLS team. I hate trademark infringement lawsuits intensely (part of me dies whenever I enter a Walgreens), but depending on the name of the school (e.g., New York), Bulls would have to go. I'd argue that SUNY Bulls would be okay though.

 

Yes, I think we all understand this. But several are pointing out the confusion some may have with NYU and NYSU--FomerlyUB.

 

And exactluy who is going to be impacted by the name change? Who is the target for this type of...advertising?

 

 

I'd argue it's no different than the confusion between Ohio University and Ohio State. Having lived in the state of Ohio for five years now, I can assure you that confusing the two is hardly an issue. And as a University of Rochester grad, if I had a nickel for every time I had to say "no, not RIT..." I could've given more money than Golisano to make UB change to New York State University.

Edited April 8, 2013 by OvrOfficiousJerk

[ganesh]

Even Albany would make more sense for the name change.

 

Until 1991, they were all called "State University of New York" @ <put your favorite city>. Then in 1992, they decide to rename them as University at <Put your favorite city> . SUNY Albany (Alma mater) sounded much more cooler than University at Albany....

[Offside Number 76]

You're off a few ways here:

 

1. UB doesn't have the only law school. Albany has one, and a good one.

2. Selectivity and the quality of students are not one and the same. UB continues to grow and as its capacity (supply) outweighs current demand due to a lack of visibility, acceptnace goes up. High acceptance can also be due to high quality students.

3. UB is a top flight research university. According to a 2010 ASU report, UB is a top 50 Research University, as is Stony Brook. However, it outranks Stony Brook in top academic measures; total research funding; total federal research funding; and total endowment.

 

So if you want to make an argument it's not a high quality university, try to find some metrics to back it up. The bottomline is, AAU/R1 schools are ranked on their research as much as anything and UB outperforms all SUNY schools and will continue to as the state continues to focus on its as a center of academic excellence, or as used here "flagship." It continues to climb rankings and earn a higher reputation. Sadly the academics programs suck.

 

We can argue until out fingers are typed out about whether this is a good idea but what's not up for debate is which SUNY University if the eminent one in the system.

 

Albany Law is private. It is not a state law school. This should help this side of the argument.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Offsides Number 76

[PearlHowardman]

If SUNY wants to create a flagship "New York State University" school it needs to be in the central part of the state - not in the extreme western (or eastern LI) end of the state.

 

Having this in Buffalo will never generate any kind of fan base east of Rochester - even if you make the playoffs. Fans in the metro NYC area will NEVER pay attention to a college team 400 miles away.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

If SUNY wants to create a flagship "New York State University" school it needs to be in the central part of the state - not in the extreme western (or eastern LI) end of the state.

 

Both Univ of Florida and Florida State are hardly the population/geographical centers of Florida and they do okay for themselves.

 

Having this in Buffalo will never generate any kind of fan base east of Rochester - even if you make the playoffs. Fans in the metro NYC area will NEVER pay attention to a college team 400 miles away.

 

Notre Dame would like to have a word with you: the Irish don't play home games at Yankee Stadium for the heck of it. I'd say the mascot confusion with the local soccer team would be a bigger problem.

Edited April 9, 2013 by OvrOfficiousJerk

[Mr. WEO]

The nickname may have to change, too.

 

When I saw this thread I immediately thought of the New York Red Bulls, the MLS team. I hate trademark infringement lawsuits intensely (part of me dies whenever I enter a Walgreens), but depending on the name of the school (e.g., New York), Bulls would have to go. I'd argue that SUNY Bulls would be okay though.

 

 

 

I'd argue it's no different than the confusion between Ohio University and Ohio State. Having lived in the state of Ohio for five years now, I can assure you that confusing the two is hardly an issue. And as a University of Rochester grad, if I had a nickel for every time I had to say "no, not RIT..." I could've given more money than Golisano to make UB change to New York State University.

 

That's because neither of those schools changed their name a year ago.

 

Can anyone tell me how calling UB "NYSU" will get a single extra applicant or loyal sports fan? It makes no sense at all. It smells like desperation.

[JM57]

Typical Buffalo fear of change going on in this thread.

 

You know what's stupid? The name "University AT Buffalo". That's dumb. It sounds dumb, it looks dumb. University of Buffalo? Sounds correct. State University of New York, Buffalo? Sounds appropriate. Just like the UC system SUNY was supposedly modeled after. It's not "The University of California AT Berkeley" or "AT Davis" or "AT Los Angeles". It just sounds WRONG. The University of California, Berkeley. That sounds better. Just like SUNY, Buffalo would be at least a small improvement. I don't care what they change their name to. It's just a name.

 

The fact remains that re-branding WORKS. If it didn't, it wouldn't happen all the time. Whether we want to admit it or not, marketing folks (Ahem RUSS BRANDON) know how to use even the smallest cues to manipulate your thought process and hope to capture your impulses. It's why grocery stores are laid out the way they are. It's why commercials are so annoying and repetitive. Marketing works, and oftentimes subconsciously. Period.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

You're off a few ways here:

 

1. UB doesn't have the only law school. Albany has one, and a good one.

2. Selectivity and the quality of students are not one and the same. UB continues to grow and as its capacity (supply) outweighs current demand due to a lack of visibility, acceptnace goes up. High acceptance can also be due to high quality students.

3. UB is a top flight research university. According to a 2010 ASU report, UB is a top 50 Research University, as is Stony Brook. However, it outranks Stony Brook in top academic measures; total research funding; total federal research funding; and total endowment.

 

So if you want to make an argument it's not a high quality university, try to find some metrics to back it up. The bottomline is, AAU/R1 schools are ranked on their research as much as anything and UB outperforms all SUNY schools and will continue to as the state continues to focus on its as a center of academic excellence, or as used here "flagship." It continues to climb rankings and earn a higher reputation. Sadly the academics programs suck.

 

We can argue until out fingers are typed out about whether this is a good idea but what's not up for debate is which SUNY University if the eminent one in the system.

 

Albany Law School is private, not public: http://www.albanylaw.edu/Pages/home.aspx .

 

I went to UB for undergrad and UCLA for grad school. The difference in overall quality was remarkable (to me, at least) between bot the schools and the UC and SUNY systems.

 

I'm not saying UB is terrible. What I'm saying is that the initial vision has never come close to being realized. UB's peak was in the late 1960s-early 1970s. It was a place on the up and up that attracted good faculty. They can still hire good young faculty, but the best ones leave as soon as they can. I'm not singling UB out here -- this happens to all mid-tier universities.

 

It remains the flagship, but it's telling that unlike most flagship state schools - michigan, berkeley, texas, unc, uva - which are always the toughest to get into, it's the third most selective of a 4-school system. That's not normal.

Edited April 9, 2013 by dave mcbride

[ganesh]

Albany Law School is private, not public: http://www.albanylaw...Pages/home.aspx .

 

I went to UB for undergrad and UCLA for grad school. The difference in overall quality was remarkable (to me, at least) between bot the schools and the UC and SUNY systems.

 

I'm not saying UB is terrible. What I'm saying is that the initial vision has never come close to being realized. UB's peak was in the late 1960s-early 1970s. It was a place on the up and up that attracted good faculty. They can still hire good young faculty, but the best ones leave as soon as they can. I'm not singling UB out here -- this happens to all mid-tier universities.

 

And the weather probably doesn't help (especially for the faculty that are immigrants). And finally those NY State Taxes are just a huge burden

[RuntheDamnBall]

And the weather probably doesn't help (especially for the faculty that are immigrants). And finally those NY State Taxes are just a huge burden

Sorta, but SUNY pays tenure-track full-time faculty decently.

[JM57]

Sorta, but SUNY pays tenure-track full-time faculty decently.

 

I actually had a professor in undergrad that left UCLA (!!!!!!!!) for a full-time position at Buff State.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I actually had a professor in undergrad that left UCLA (!!!!!!!!) for a full-time position at Buff State.

AUP is pretty strong and has been pretty good at bargaining but it's come at the cost of entry for newer profs who have to adjunct for longer. Supply and demand issue, too.

 

But... football?

[PromoTheRobot]

People are freaking out because UB has an AD bent on raising the level of the programs. He fired a bunch of coaches who were just puttering along. He's funding a new fieldhouse by creating a new club section at UB stadium, much like the ones at RWS. He hires an untested coach but one with marquee name value and ties to an elite program. If he fails it won't be from playing it safe.

 

But like JM57 said, Buffalo people can't handle change.

 

PTR

Edited April 9, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[JM57]

People are freaking out because UB has an AD bent on raising the level of the programs. He fired a bunch of coaches who were just puttering along. He's funding a new fieldhouse by creating a new club section at UB stadium, much like the ones at RWS. He hires an untested coach but one with marquee name value and ties to an elite program. If he fails it won't be from playing it safe.

 

But like JM57 said, Buffalo people can't handle change.

 

PTR

 

re: the fieldhouse; IIRC UB is one of the few D-I programs without indoor practice facilities, which is a big negative when it comes to recruiting

[BillsFanNC]

According to the most recent figures I found, UB is around 28,000 (all students) and Stony Brook around 24,000. Albany is around 17,500 and Binghamton just short of 15,000.

 

Binghamton and Stony Brook are higher in the most recent US News rankings by a relatively small margin (89 and 92 to UB's 106). But it seems the money really lies at UB, with their massive $700+ million endowment, compared to $110 million at Stony Brook and $80 million at Binghamton

 

Yes. UB is a major public research university. Binghamton and Stony Brook aren't in the same league in that regard.

 

Edit: Well maybe Stony Brook is in the same realm.

Edited April 9, 2013 by BillsFanNC

[CherryCoke]

I think its an interesting idea...but I think it would have issues creating an identity for a program that resides in Buffalo...

 

I think most outsiders would simply assume New York State Univeristy would be located somewhere near NYC..simply because the name of the state is also the name of the biggest city in the state....obviously Florida, Fl and Michigan, MI dont exist...so those schools can exist anywhere in the state, use the name of the state, and create their idenity

[PearlHowardman]

...like JM57 said, Buffalo people can't handle change.

 

PTR

 

A "New York State University" sports program in the extreme-far western part of New York State will never develop a fan base east of Rochester. I guarantee it!

 

It probably needs to be in Albany!

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

A "New York State University" sports program in the extreme-far western part of New York State will never develop a fan base east of Rochester. I guarantee it!

 

It probably needs to be in Albany!

There was once a study done on what college teams people follow in the whole USA. While Syracuse has a good following it wasn't that dominant. In fact UB was more popular in WNY. SU wasn't even the #3 team in NYC.

 

The idea of the name change isn't just about marketing in state but making an impression out of state with recruits. Every high school kid knows Florida State or Michigan State. But what is the "New York State" in New York?

 

Athletics enhance a school's name value. B'ham, Albany and Stony Brook are all great schools but they have worse name recognition than some tiny private college in the Carolinas. UB is maybe one notch above them right now.

 

PTR

Edited April 9, 2013 by PromoTheRobot

[JM57]

A "New York State University" sports program in the extreme-far western part of New York State will never develop a fan base east of Rochester. I guarantee it!

 

It probably needs to be in Albany!

 

Who said they need a "statewide fan base"? NYS is top 5 nationwide in population, and relatively comparable to Florida in area. Do the Gators or the Seminoles have a statewide base? What about Dook/UNC or Clemson/S. Carolina in smaller states? Or Michigan/Michigan St? Sure they draw fans from all over the state, but it's not like the entire state gets behind a single team. Those are much smaller states (unless you don't count NYC at all, in which case they're comparable to the rest of NYS) and those programs can all pack stadiums.

 

There was once a study done on what college teams people follow in the whole USA. While Syracuse has a good following it wasn't that dominant. In fact UB was more popular in WNY. SU wasn't even the #3 team in NYC.

 

The idea of the name change isn't just about marketing in state but making an impression out of state with recruits. Every high school kid knows Florida State or Michigan State. But what is the "New York State" in New York?

 

Athletics enhance a school's name value. B'ham, Albany and Stony Brook are all great schools but they have worse name recognition than some tiny private college in the Carolinas. UB is maybe one notch above them right now.

 

PTR

 

The reason I know about those 3 schools besides the fact I attend a SUNY (okay, SUC) school? Because they've all been in March Madness in the last 5-ish years.

Edited April 9, 2013 by JM57